High Tower of Wizardry/Internal Matters

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Part of the High Tower of Wizardry


(those should be discussed openly, as any mayhem project is)

  • Blocking the entrance to an important place (say a castle) with huge golems.
  • Hiding from view a portion of the map.
  • Acle swapping : moved to Terrain:Pentacle

Commercial Activities

Price Setting Table

All prices subject to reduction if requisite items are provided or otherwise already available (?), i.e. material components, mana sources, acles, and scrolls of relevant spells all serve to reduce requisite prices.

Product Ingredients Market Costs Result Usefulness for buyer
Compressed Wand 12 AP + 4 mana + 1 Wand 1200 + 4000 + market 5200 + materials not much, even if you're not fire-born
Greater Compressed Wand 12 AP + 4 mana + 1 Wand+1 1200 + 4000 + 5200 10400 + materials even less
Upgraded Air Sword 48 AP + 16 mana + 2 Air Swords 4800 + 16000 + 10000 30800 Killing Efficiently
Upgraded Fire Sword 48 AP + 16 mana + 2 Fire Swords 4800 + 16000 + 12000 32800 Killing Efficiently
Upgraded Earth Sword 48 AP + 16 mana + 2 Earth Swords 4800 + 16000 + 8000 28800 Killing Efficiently
Upgraded Water Sword 48 AP + 16 mana + 2 Water Swords 4800 + 16000 + 4000 24800 Killing Efficiently
Eye Pod (3) 10 AP + 8 mana + 3 Sheep Eyes* 1000 + 8000 + Unknown Dep. 9000? Limited demand
Bound Elemental 36 AP + 12 mana + Skull Gull Skull* 3600 + 12000 + Neg 15600 Most efficient with Catanas
Elemental Catana Base 30 AP + Catana + Bound Elemental 3000 + 5000 + 15600 23600 Killing Efficiently
Silver Puzzle Box 36 AP + 12 mana + 3 pairs scissors + 1 yellow flower + 200 bits silver 3600 + 12000 + 900 + ??? 16500+ Currently being tested by Billz8
Attempt Frankenweiner 72 AP + 24 mana + Strike* (+ Pentacle) 7200 + 24000 + Unknown (+ Unknown) 31200+ Useful until pet deals 500+ damage
Enchant Mud (2) 3 AP + 1 mana + 10 Mud 300 + 1000 + 400 1700 for 10 Party decoration and quest fulfillment
Spirit Catcher (3) 24 AP + 8 mana + 1 candle 2400 + 8000 + Negligible 10400 See (3)!
Baned Weapon 1 AP + Bound Spirit 100? + Above 10500 Double damage to monster of choice
Dose of Antidote 20 AP + 1 mana + 2 blue flowers 2000 + 1000 + Unknown 3000+ If buyer supplies flowers, cheap. Could drop easy.
Shimmering Thingy 72 AP + 24 mana + tarot deck 7200 + 24000 + 22000 (+ 5000 compile) 53200 Only for big events.
Guild Namer 20 AP + 8 mana + 5000 GP + 1 Sheet of paper 2000 + 8000 +5000 + 100 15100 every one has got mana and only once in a guild liftime
Guild Decorator 20 AP + 8 mana + 5000 GP + 10 Sheets of paper 2000 + 8000 +5000 + 1000 16000 every one has got mana and only once in a guild liftime
Next Product Requisite Items Suggested Price Breakdown Suggested Total Market Factors

Spirit Catchers(3)
Baning Weapons

* Market not remotely stable
(1) On hold until they stop being free?
(2) Do we sell this, or try to hold something of a panwizard monopoly?
(3) Currently no market for them; excellent items for tribble farmers

How so ?--Solune 09:07, 15 September 2007 (BST)
Tribble farmers would profit more than most from a Tribble Gun spell and Spirit Catchers. Spirit Catchers are glitchy, meaning they allow the ghost a shot even after capture; one cannot capture a hungry ghost without losing food or experience. Tribble farmers don't carry food.
A tribble farmer could make a healthy profit if we could drum up business, or even just keep them for his or her own use. Even tribble farmers have favored enemies, after all.
Anyway, the problem is that there's no market for bound spirits at this time. S. Mackie macksting 19:31, 15 September 2007 (BST)

Wow, that's a lot of considerations ! Anyway, my purpose in adding the 'client' column, was to put a price to the benefit to the client (where as now we have a price for the cost to us)--Solune 22:35, 15 September 2007 (BST)

I figured our profit was in charging for mana and AP. We regenerate each with time, so it's turning time into money. Not so? S. Mackie 18:51, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Considerations on Unknowns

To my knowledge, strikes are hard to get but have no other uses.

One of the pets eats them (the annnoyance I think) depending on how nutritive it is, that would increase the price--Solune 07:00, 15 September 2007 (BST)

As to yellow and blue flowers, I can't remember the AP needed to forage in relevant territory; however, the odds of finding a blue flower are 20%, the odds of a yellow flower 10%. Figure it takes five foragings to get a blue flower, ten to get a yellow. S. Mackie 22:56, 15 September 2007 (BST)
Addendum: Silver is mined 25% of the time on its type of mountain. Can't remember AP needed to mine. Varies, of course, but that hardly matters to my pricing; bling breaks. 02:13, 16 September 2007 (BST)
Addendum the Second: Is it 36 AP to mine? Modified by tools, of course? And I take it nobody knows the AP necessary to forage in cut jungle? 18:53, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Base of 36 AP to mine and base of 24 AP (12 AP with a Golden Sickle) to forage for flowers. alanda 22:21, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Thoughts on the table

Just to butt in for a moment, but I figured I should point out that these prices are WAY high. I'd think that the things most likely to sell are the elemental and advanced elemental weapons, and at 30-35K per weapon, I don't think you're going to get many takers. If you really want to make money selling goods and services, you might want to consider moderating the fixed rates a bit with an eye towards what people are willing to pay. You'll more than make up for it in volume if you do... -- Thog 22:34, 17 September 2007 (BST)

Agreed, although, it's good to have this information transparent. I don't think any of us believe we'll actually get 50K for a portal but it shows us the raw costs in one easy-to-read table. There will always be a higher demand for some items and that demand will dictate price. The prices I have given (and still am giving) customers for elemental weaponry have been much lower than the estimated costs above; there's plenty of market driven data out there thanks to Citiesberg which gives us a better idea of what people might actually pay. Bottom line: this table is still a work in progress hence it being under our Internal Matters section and not on our Main or Talk pages. alanda 23:14, 17 September 2007 (BST)
I had mixed feelings about the price, and considered this, yes, an unsettled internal matter. However, that these price discussions are available to the public is a good thing, much agreed.
I'm not sure how we'd go about pricing mana lower than 1000 apiece, but Thog, don't forget we'll buy bling at at least its mana's worth in prices; mercury and ice bling, useless to others, would do wonders to set back these prices. The price on mana was set mercifully, I have to say, at less than the price per hour of AP charged by the Hammered Anvil.
And still... uncomfortably high. S. Mackie 05:30, 18 September 2007 (BST)
Addendum: Ah-ha! We need to, once we've hammered these out, come up with another provisional table with prices listed on the assumption that commonly available ingredients are provided! Silver turned to silver boxes won't change things much, but the price of superior weapons would drop to about 20k or so if somebody came to us and asked, "could you turn these swords into a super sword?" 06:26, 18 September 2007 (BST)
Actually, what I was trying to do with the last column was to work out how much a client would want to pay for the items. That the enchanting profession is far less profitable than smithery is obvious by now. But let's not forget that we are 2nd level whereas they are 3rd level armourers--Solune 08:38, 18 September 2007 (BST)

With regard to baned weapons, you cannot trade an 'undecided' baned weapon, or a bound spirit. I've found it easier to give the spirit catcher itself... especially when the customer wants to bane it against a hard-to-find/hard-to-kill (for wizards, at least) monster Stoo 09:59, 18 September 2007 (BST)


When we dug the guild hall, I created a stall over to prempt the lot, but I don't like trading at all, and it has probably crumbled down by now. Does anyone want to take the spot ?--Solune 19:22, 29 August 2007 (BST)

Your (our?) shop is still standing and actually has some Misril Bling on sale there. The only reason I have a stall is to use the Teleport to Shop spell. I set up my shop in the 'Kingdom interior and am keeping a stock of kraken meat on me for quick, cheap access to there. alanda 19:30, 29 August 2007 (BST)
I'm guessing it's not possible for one player to have a shop & a stall, otherwise I'd be happy to set something up if/when needs be...Stoo 23:22, 29 August 2007 (BST)

Eye pods

We've talked about making a special enchanting book (alanda is on it right now). Having just made myself an eye pod, I figured we could also charge it for each other (I checked that they are tradeable). What kind of spells do you suggest I add on it?--Solune 16:26, 12 August 2007 (BST)

The cost of charging the Eye Pod with a spell is the spell's normal mana squared. I'm not really in the mood to charge an Eye Pod if it means losing that much mana, unless somebody can tell me a damn good reason to. S. Mackie 17:34, 12 August 2007 (BST)
I feel that, although EyePods are currently available to Shamans, they really aren't cost-effective unless you're an L3 Wizard. Kind of like how the 1st-gen I-Pods were total crap and until Apple fixed the bugs they didn't really catch on with consumers. :-) I think selling (renting?) them to Dukes on a custom order basis would be more beneficial. Whether they'd buy them or not is the big question. alanda 21:57, 13 August 2007 (BST)
I am up for counterargument; perhaps Solune had ideas. If somebody has a brilliant idea, I might change my tune. In the meantime, I do have a virgin Eye Pod set up and ready to be charged if some duke be needin' it; made it a while ago, because I had the bits and pieces. S. Mackie 05:14, 14 August 2007 (BST)
Actually, when I set up to hunt sheeps, I had no idea the eye pod would be that hard to use. Still, for 1 mana spells, or to help dukes discover the power of magick, it might be an idea (I had in mind the tribble guns / imp slaps)--Solune 07:53, 14 August 2007 (BST)
Tribble guns. Good answer. I'm not sure what else it'll be useful for, but that's a powerful spell, as I recall. S. Mackie 18:11, 14 August 2007 (BST)
TG and Killing Blow are interesting but, I believe, Imps can only be seen by Mages. Have elemental balls been confirmed as 100 "base" damage? If so, they are probably the most worthwhile items to load onto an EyePod. It would be interesting to see if Fleeting Strength (or the other damage modifying spells) actually sets your multiplier to 4 or if it (they) multiply your current modifier by 4. alanda 21:21, 14 August 2007 (BST)
As a Duke, I would definitely buy an Eye Pod loaded with a bunch of Sod spells, unless the cost was really prohibitive. Actually, a mix of the alignment-weapon spells would be nice too. Billz8 21:12, 22 August 2007 (BST)
I suppose we'd base the cost of such an Eye Pod against the total creation cost, with a deposit for the Eye Pod itself included. (Refunded when returned, or kept by recipient as long-term chargable purchase.) Does anybody foresee a need to set a price on sheep eyes? I figure they're common enough to be considered negligible, but I bring it up so's others can agree or disagree. S. Mackie 05:36, 23 August 2007 (BST)
Before I knew they were so useless I went hunting for sheeps, and it took me at least 50 sheeps to get my three eyes (hence my large collection of sheep hearts, lungs and stomachs) so I would says it is expensive. As for the loading itself, at 1500 GP/mana that makes about 7000 GP/sod . I don't know if you can cast from a book though.--Solune 08:05, 23 August 2007 (BST)
I suppose there's that. I've got a New Eye Pod and four more sheep eyes; had a long run of killing sheep to get wool before I found out that wool's worthless.
Anyway, worth looking at whether or not books work with it. If not, I suppose that might up the cost of the eye pods at the going rate of the spells involved; if they can be cast from a book, however, that'll suit fine in my opinion at no greater charge than the (admittedly high) current necessities.
Sadly, I'm in no position to find out yet. S. Mackie 08:33, 23 August 2007 (BST)
Addendum: The first one or two could be promotional. I'm willing to take a hit to my total cash to get a few eye pods out there are given out without a deposit. Could call it the S. Mackie Coupon. However, we'd have to decide on a deposit price beforehand, so's people know how much the discount really is. S. Mackie 08:36, 23 August 2007 (BST)
Note for loading with the elemental attacks, you don't need to worry about deposit so much. The recipient can just play the eye-pod instantly and hand it back. You do need a paper copy for each time you load the spell. hendsch 14:56, 23 August 2007 (BST)

  • I thought about the imp slap only for its base damage, as they can't see imps
  • elemental balls are indeed 100 damage, but they cost 4 mana with the eyepod so that's quite expensive for us.
  • fleeting strength sets you dmg x to 4 so if a general duke would cast it, he would reduce his damage. The other kind of dmg multipliers only add, not multiply (ex: bacon sandwich, picnic, nunchuck training(?))

--Solune 21:34, 14 August 2007 (BST)

We could put them up for sale and see how they sell. S. Mackie 09:37, 15 August 2007 (BST)
a Spell that Dukes might appreciate and that is easy for us to make is the Toad spell. It would allow them to shortcut some monsters--Solune 22:17, 19 August 2007 (BST)

Other use

As Hendsch mentions here, transport spells are another good trade. I'm thinking of: one way to Oz (via wizard retreat), to the Ocean, the remember spells, teleport to shop, etc. The good news is they are not too expensive. (Actually the remember is... 24 mana squared ... better forget it)--Solune 14:27, 17 September 2007 (BST)

I thought each spell on an eyepod was cast straight away when the eyepod was played... more than one transport would just bounce people around the map, wouldn't it? Stoo 10:31, 18 September 2007 (BST)
Indeed, so that makes only one spell per Eye pod. Well, Dukes are rich... and we said that eye pods were only on loan--Solune 14:09, 18 September 2007 (BST)

Guild-to-Guild (G2G?) Deals

Regarding this: I'm not quite sure what we'd want in return for a steady stream of <Elemental> Swords other than GP for which we could arrange bulk discounts. For example: I recently sold 5 Onyx Swords to Billz8 at 17,500 GP/each plus materials. That's well under the 1K GP/mana guideline I like to stick to but 20K/each plus materials hasn't enticed too many buyers.
Food for thought: I think Spirit Catchers/Bound Spirits are quite possibly the most underrated item in the game right now but it seems as if the general populace is unaware of their value or, possibly, the current market price is scaring off everyone. I'm going to start feeling out the market for a more accurate price and will keep everyone updated. alanda 00:15, 1 September 2007 (BST)

Most kind, Alandasnare. I await your judgment on these matters. We should certainly offer some to the Stonecutters. And, really, anybody else who's a steady customer. Discussion of flowery stuff shall commence on base page? S. Mackie 23:59, 1 September 2007 (BST)

General Chatter

I'm nearly finished with the militaary quest, so I will go back to shamanhood soon. Is there anything you wanted done (or killed) before that ?


Next initiation is ?...

members of the old guild

I haven't signed up for the new Guild yet, since I'm in semi-retirement for the moment and don't want to block any future recruitment drives. That said, if you can summon INTO a Guild Temple (I know you can summon someone out of it) I'd be happy to join at the next recruitment drive. That way, if I'm off snoozing on Holiday Island, you can just summon me to the next ceremony and all will be well. -- Elan 19:58, 20 September 2007 (BST)

Wiki stuff

Logo / Title Image

I've created one here. Let me know what you think / whether it's something we want for the main page. Don't worry if it's not right - I didn't spend a huge amount of time on it! If you like the idea, I can edit it a bit more / someone can create a whole new one.

Feel free to ignore me and I'll know not to take it any further! ;) Stoo 18:19, 13 August 2007 (BST)

I like it! Not too flashy but at the same time not too bland. Where exactly would this go, though? It might be a bit large depending on where it ends up but I'm sure you could crop it if necessary. alanda 21:23, 13 August 2007 (BST)


First try at a guild template. Please check it and leave any feedback on it's talk page--Che-T 22:48, 20 August 2007 (BST)

I think I like this and, with some tweaking, it might be nice to replace our main Guild page. It could include the image Stoo made and link to pertinent pages/headers (i.e. members, order requests, initiation, etc). Example here. alanda 23:54, 20 August 2007 (BST)
Great example there alanda. That's the idea, but not to replace the main page completely, just an addition to help the navigation. Especially for the more "Market oriented" ones. It may also help to clear guild pages a little, but probably guild history and relevant info should stay in the guilds main pages--Che-T 03:21, 21 August 2007 (BST)
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of making that template the main page and having multiple headers within linking to individual sub-pages. But, my imagination tends to run wild sometimes and, obviously, this guild is a group effort so I'll pipe down now. :-) alanda 03:44, 21 August 2007 (BST)
In response to both, I wouldn't mind posting such a thing on my user page for example, but I would like a much reduced version of that image instead. Something not too fuzzy, either, as resized images get to look sorta funky sometimes. S. Mackie 06:26, 21 August 2007 (BST)
Played around with it a bit (check alanda's link again). Shall see if I can make it longer to fix dimensions Stoo 17:39, 27 August 2007 (BST)
Not bad for size. Hat's a bit pixellated. Thoughts? S. Mackie 18:40, 27 August 2007 (BST)
Oh. It's like a template for a template. Weird. Just got how this works, sorta, and am trying to use it. S. Mackie 05:48, 4 September 2007 (BST)

Had another play with the image, and think the sizing is now much better... see? Stoo 17:30, 15 September 2007 (BST)

Coat of Arms

Despite the fact that we have dispensed with our worldly ties of license and title, a snazzy crest is requisite. So Spacer One is putting together a crest based on olde heraldic rules; azure ermines pile on argent. It's purty and goes well with the colors of the wizard hat. S. Mackie 08:35, 25 September 2007 (BST)

Building stuff and Business Expenses

Guild decoration

I've posted a new name a background for the Temple. It's ugly (done with paint) but it's an idea of what I would like it to be. There are 2 namers and one decorator left so we could name our vault (I don't know, "portal to the dark Treasure" or something). Any thoughts ?--Solune 19:44, 23 September 2007 (BST)

I say we take our time with the other decorations and namers. This is a very, very nice start, and makes us distinct. S. Mackie 19:48, 23 September 2007 (BST)

Eye Pods

So how the heck do we set a price on sheep eyes? The current market cost seems bizarre, and they're otherwise not in circulation.



Currently, One of Redsnares' characters is volunteering. It's 720 AP to transcribe the spell 120 mana to transcribe; thereafter, 72 AP to cast.

Just did this and am planning on working on the More Compressed <Element> spells during the rest of the party if I have enough mana. I borrowed the Gold Bling from the storeroom. alanda 02:49, 15 September 2007 (BST)
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