Old Conversation

From Cities

Jump to: navigation, search

This page is for old Conversations. Any convsersation where the last reply is a month old is fair game.


Forbidden City not so Forbidden?

After about a day, someone finally defeated the ooze from my socks. I then put them on one last time, hoping I would end up somewhere close to the Space Elevator, but the game had a better idea.

Just inside the city Nice house On the map

I'll take more screenshots after my AP regenerates. Until then, is this a bug, or was I chosen by the Great Lords to receive this honor? Anyone know what I should do? Other than guard my hat for all eternity, that is. --Naimoigiant 21:18, 16 October 2008 (BST)

I've got a talisman into there, as do others, so your hat isn't that safe :). However, if you want to confirm mappings etc for morningstar cresent, that would be great! Phw 21:38, 16 October 2008 (BST)
I got sent there doing the socks quest too - Kressida in da House, and shortly after I posted this picture, Sertularian got in too - Sert's arrival. - Kressida 22:25, 16 October 2008 (BST)
If one had massive amounts of ap, they could tunnel in to the Forbidden Guild, located below the Forbidden city as well. Syagrius 00:21, 17 October 2008 (BST)
The Morningstar Crescent map appears to be complete, albeit misspelled (I'll correct that in a minute), I can't chalk anything on the city streets, and the Pope appears to be poo-resistant. Great, now I'm bored. --Naimoigiant 02:52, 17 October 2008 (BST)
I left the City, though not without leaving something behind.... --Naimoigiant 22:37, 17 October 2008 (BST)

I Made This!

'Kingslayer - Perhaps I would have been better off making lots more smaller weapons instead... MrBlarney 05:44, 2 October 2008 (BST)

To clarify, is that negative 100 to hit? S. Mackie 18:29, 2 October 2008 (BST)
Yes, yes it is. Still took about a year to forge. People who started as Fire Element might find some use for it... MrBlarney 21:03, 2 October 2008 (BST)
That is a mighty fine weapon. Since it is made of bronze, it will actually be -80% to hit. --TheRealKilgore 23:38, 2 October 2008 (BST)
Isn't that already factored into the to-hit percentage?--LimeHan 04:01, 3 October 2008 (BST)
No, it isn't. At least it hasn't been that way for any of my custom weapons Namorson
I have a feeling, if I were to become a smith, I'd find myself working hard to match my short-lived but powerful magely weaponry. I am told that, in terms of sheer cost, this would actually require a very long time with a very large amount of crafting, or else it would not be half as cheap. Crafting this weapon would become something like owning a pet.
I respect this kind of effort, and hope that weapon serves you well. If you'd like me to enchant an Eye Pod with a few accuracy spells to make it even more effective, I can do that. S. Mackie 06:39, 3 October 2008 (BST)
Thanks, but I think I'll let some Fire-aligned person with maxed accuracy take this one. (Or put it on display.) Instead, I think I'll start building bronze weapons with -63 accuracy to keep a 90% to-hit (133 - 43), but reduce the material and work effort to produce. I probably won't be producing something of that magnitude again. MrBlarney 17:04, 3 October 2008 (BST)
Pity, really. It's rather impressive. S. Mackie 18:26, 3 October 2008 (BST)
Frankly, I'm also a little afraid to use it since there's still the chance it could break, which would be terribly disappointing. It actually might be better as part of the guild's treasure hoard! MrBlarney 02:31, 4 October 2008 (BST)

New Things

Just been looking at The great Cities Mapping Project and I stumbled across this stuff

Core Dump 49,50
Man walking tribbles 52,50
Hunting Lodge 50,51
Great Lord Andrew's Private Beach 49,49
Great Lord Andrew's Private Garden 50,49
Dark Stuffs 51,50
A secret thing that the players would just love to see! 48,48

Does anyone know anything about these, also how or when do we get a play??? -- Ketchup 17:03, 22 September 2008 (BST)

The inner inner region is traditionally a GL test area. I suspect someone used a magic map from within the Vents/Taxing Cellar. (The Hunting Lodge might be identical to the real one--so they could test that quest. As for the rest...they probably know it's in map range now, so obfuscated the names.  :) ) --Dragon 17:32, 22 September 2008 (BST)
The Man Walking Tribbles was the test sculpture I did before the festival when Elseware gave me a plinth to test. He moved me in, I made the sculpture, then he booted me out again. The sculpture was crap (because I had no idea what I was doing!) so you're not missing much there! Rhapsodie 09:56, 26 September 2008 (BST)

Mea culpa (and a request)

So I hear we've had a bit of drama in-game over the pentacle being time warped into non-existence. First, let me apologize - I (as Elan) fired off a pair on the neighboring field right after the pentacle started until it was pointed out to me that it'd affect the pentacle. Sorry about that. I suspect other people did as well, though I know Amishrobots/Jos A Wapner wasn't one of them.

For the future, can I suggest just planting a chill-out zone between any future party/pentacle and fields? -- Thog 16:03, 20 September 2008 (BST)

Horse Trading

I'm offering my finest (only) sea mare Penelope (a.k.a. Azuaron's Silver), a 29 week old above average (636 xp) pinto sea horsie of noble character, unimpeachable breed, and without any flaw or blemish (not at all evil). As she is currently without a (uh-hum) bun in the oven, your opportunity here for a 2-for-1 deal will entice even the most jaded trader in horsie-flesh.

I'm seeking an equally fine horsie of earth type, any age, any gender, any experience, from a trader of repute (and not at all evil). I would be willing to part with her for other forms of barter, no reasonable offer refused. Apply here, via PAYG, or in person. --Tiltowait 18:35, 18 September 2008 (BST)

Thanks, fishface. Hudson is a great trade. A pleasure doing business with you. --Tiltowait 18:18, 23 September 2008 (BST)


I've got two extra familiars. One has 5xp, the other is empty. I don't know that I care to keep three+ familiars along with my other pets. If you want one, let me know. I don't know how much they're worth, not really keeping up with much anymore. Leave me a message, or payg me. density 02:00, 12 September 2008 (BST)

I have one of my own and don't need another, but it would probably be useful to list what they eat. Depending on their diet, they can either be very easy or very expensive to take care of. --Dragon 02:25, 12 September 2008 (BST)
Can do:
Pie-Wack-It (1) eats
* Wallbangers
* Bloody Mary
* Tequila Sunrises
* Bottles of Triple Sec
* Glasses of Wine
Pie-Wack-It (2 (5XP)) eats
* Gimlets
* Bottles of Kahlua 
* Bottles of Sloe Djinn
* Slow Djin Fizzes

So, looks like 1 is cheap to keep.

Excessive Deforestation

Anyone else thinking about this, given how we have shrinking schools of fish? I just can't help feel guilty about over-chopping wood before I went into the vents. Is there a way to encourage the forests to grow faster? - Corellis 12:43, 7 September 2008 (EST)

Perhaps a new monster "Ent" or "Dryad" that can appear and attack any player who is using an axe to chop down trees (the likelihood increasing the more severe the deforestation is. Give him/her high stats and little or no drop. Might discourage the destruction of the woods. Either that or make it so fairy juice helps speed up the growth of forests--TheRealKilgore 03:30, 8 September 2008 (BST)
Most people would just walk away and leave the monster there... Rhapsodie 03:51, 8 September 2008 (BST)
I find that hard to believe. If I recall accurately, almost any time a new monster has been introduced, said monster has been hunted practically to extinction within a few days of discovery. If anything, I imagine this would cause an increase in deforestation so everyone could get their trophy, make sure there were no new drops, etc. Having said that, I still think it's a cool idea. :) -Scrumbucket 04:37, 8 September 2008 (BST)
It's the "little or no drop" part that makes me think people would walk away! :) Rhapsodie 13:19, 8 September 2008 (BST)
They should surround the player on all sides, always be agressive (no flying away), see through any manner of invisibility, be able to generate a field that prevents any manner of summoning and talismaning out, and have the ability to one hit kill. The only way to get out of this effective blockade would be to either die, or become involved in some pact help the forest regrow, which involves a serious blow to ones AP (and possibly inventory).
That or Captain Planet appears and kicks you in the teeth real hard, taking away maxHP. --Prthivi 04:56, 8 September 2008 (BST)
When high on Red Pills, you have the option to hug people, so why not trees as well? Or create some hippy foodstuff that gives a 'hug tree' option without the other complications. Gonzometro 05:50, 8 September 2008 (BST)
Maybe we don't want to give the GLs ideas. It's a good thing to have wood-chopping options, as anyone who has to maintain a guild will attest. --Dragon 06:33, 8 September 2008 (BST)
Prthivi: We already have team rings.. I'd like to be Looten Plunder myself. But Dr. Blight was cool too. Dragon: I whole heartedly agree. An option to "strip mine" a crag or mountain would be useful too. Stones are incredibly difficult to come by in large quantities. --Ade 11:08, 8 September 2008 (BST)
Perhaps Rock Trolls, Young Rock Trolls, and Tundra Trolls should drop more stones. --Greycat 14:19, 8 September 2008 (BST)
Are you serious? I have more stone than anything else in my inventory. Methinks I detect a business opportunity... -Scrumbucket 01:40, 9 September 2008 (BST)

Troll Auction

I am in possession of a deadly troll. I do not want to be in possession of a deadly troll. I was going to leave him at the pet cemetary, but Kaos Dragon convinced me to put him up for auction instead. Hence, I am offering my troll to the highest bidder. Here are his stats:

  • Name: Scissor Beast Bane
  • Not at all evil
  • Age: 60 weeks
  • MaxAP: 48
  • XP: 2088
  • To-Hit: 80% (will hit 90% at 2400XP)
  • Damage: 2000

Please leave bids on my talk page. Happy Bidding!

By deadly do you mean its level, or that it is it slightly evil and deadly to you, or both?--LimeHan 16:43, 1 September 2008 (BST)
Thanks for the question. I was referring to his level. Forgot to put evilness (he's not evil) on the list.


How do you kill a monster (yes thats its name), hp shown as ?..??? ketchup 06:53, 28 Aug 2008 (BST)

Hit it with a weapon. It'll turn into something else, most likely a Dolphin. --Dragon 07:05, 28 August 2008 (BST)

--- And I doubt anybody will get this particular joke. Elseware 08:25, 28 August 2008 (BST)

I certainly don't! :) Rhapsodie 00:26, 30 August 2008 (BST)
After a few hints on IRC, it was determined that it's a reference to an obscure line in "Liber 777" by Aleister Crowley, which states that a particular magical symbol is "a monster (probably a dolphin)." Elseware apparently owns the actual book, and there are a surprising number of references to it in Cities (e.g. the Tree of Life). --Dragon 01:33, 30 August 2008 (BST)
Table V - columns CLX/CLIX. Now I'm going to have to read the thing again and see what other references I can pick up. Jack NT Box 14:29, 1 September 2008 (BST)

Crashed Craft

Haven't seen mention of this anywhere else yet. Whilst trucking around the Sewers I saw the following:


Anyone have any further info on this? This is in the north-west quadrant of the sewers, close to the path which leads to the valve room. Is this another nod to TMNT? How can we get into this thing?!

--Scary Mike 08:27, 27 Aug 2008 (EDT)

Oh, um... hey everybody. It's all good, per the Non-Descript Government Agent. There's, ah.... no radiation around the craft. Or craft:
 Non-Descript Government Agent sends a message via your palantir.
Non-Descript Government Agent (Yendoday, 27th of Thermidor, about seven in the evening):
If you know whats good for you, you will stop investigating the crashed ship. There is nothing 
to see there. Also I would vacate the immediate area for fear of non-existant nuclear fallout. 
If there was any, though there isn't.
You think I'll fold that easy? Forget it, Non-Decript Government Agent! I didn’t spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons without learning anything about courage! I'm takin' this to the world! We're gonna blow this wide open!!! (I mean, once we figure out how to go one square west). Who's with me?!?!
--Scary Mike 06:53, 28 Aug 2008 (EDT)
(As an aside I did see that the craft was noted in the tunnel map posted elsewhere on the wiki. Still, there doesn't seem to have been any discussion on this, and I'm dying to get to it &see what's inside. Grr! Stupid GLs tantalizing us with stuff and making us want to play the game more!!!) --Scary Mike 09:19, 28 Aug 2008 (EDT)
The plot thickens!
Non-Descript Government Informant (Elsewaday, 28th of Thermidor, about three in the afternoon):
I can't say much [REDACTED BY OFFICIAL SOURCES]fear of repercussions... but the crashed craft is 
not accessible from the sewers. We first [REDACTED BY OFFICIAL SOURCES] it there, but after our 
investigation we found it was [REDACTED BY OFFICIAL SOURCES]. That is all I can [REDACTED BY 
OFFICIAL SOURCES]. You didn't hear this from me. 
Non-Descript Government Agent (Elsewaday, 28th of Thermidor, about three in the afternoon):
We've been watching your communications and picked up a message that was sent to you. You should 
disregard it. That person shall be dealt with. You don't want to be dealt with do you? Stay away 

Ha! Looks like I'm off to [REDACTED BY OFFICIAL SOURCES]! See you in space Non-Decript Government Agent! --Scary Mike 11:07, 28 Aug 2008 (EDT)

Space? You mean like Mars or something? Random4518 18:14, 28 August 2008 (BST)
I'd should think [REDACTED BY OFFICIAL SOURCES] And I include the aforementioned pork fritters in that statement! --Scary Mike [REDACTED BY OFFICIAL SOURCES], 28 Aug 2008 (EDT)
Ive found the impact point, just south east of Water City. You can go down to the craft and search for 8ap. I found some strange vibrating metal...... Timekeeper 15:14, 29 August 2008 (BST)
I'm totally calling it right now; this metal will either be used to make High Frequency Swords (which vibrate at a high frequency, allowing them to cut through most things with ease), or making a Guyver unit. --Prthivi 18:15, 30 August 2008 (BST)
Impact point is 99E 89S DSSGCM for those who are keeping score... - Cthu1hu 12:52, 30 August 2008 (BST)
Some kind of craft has crashed here. There is rubble everywhere, 
but on the exterior of the hull you can make out "Astraterris 01". 
It is hard to determine it's origin, but it seems to be NOT OF 
Oh my God(s)! Stien's girlfriend really IS an alien!!!!! I'm not sure I want to search the craft. It might be kind of like looking through a woman's purse. What if I find... girl stuff? Or alien girl stuff!? - Scary Mike 08:11, 30 August 2008 (EST)
Stien won one of the custom locations in the Royal Charity Auction... Rhapsodie 00:54, 31 August 2008 (BST)
Ive tried smacking a few Space monsters, Invaders and asteroids around the chops with the strange metal a few times but no joy there. Im stuck in Space now. :( 13:59, 3 September 2008 (BST)

IRC is down(?) Productivity up

Is something going on with the IRC server that #cities is running on? I'm unable to connect now, and based on a PAYG I received from Bort, I'm not the only one... - Thog 16:27, 26 August 2008 (BST)

It's back now. --Dragon 17:01, 26 August 2008 (BST)

Vanishing Foodstuff question

Got around to make some bits of molten glass and somehow lost all of my carrots, sheaves of oats and wheat (Along w/ the ingredients needed for the molten glass).

You lose a Carrot.
You lose a Carrot.
You lose a Carrot.
You lose a Carrot.
You lose a Sheaf of Oats.
You lose a Sheaf of Oats.
You lose a Sheaf of Oats.
You lose a Sheaf of Oats.
You lose a Sheaf of Wheat.
You lose a Sheaf of Wheat.
You lose a Sheaf of Wheat.
You lose a Sheaf of Wheat.
You gain 6 Pounds of Poop.
You lose 50 Units of Sand.
You lose 20 Units of Charcoal.
You gain 10 Bits of Molten Glass.

Where "..." stands for rather large iterations of stock. Did I do something wrong? Judging by the byproduct of 6 poops, I suspect my dead horsie stealing from me while I was working hard on the furnance. Anyone has any insight on this little mystery? Or should I report this as a bug and cross my fingers that maybe the Great Lords would replace my loss (better yet, revive my dead horsie?!) - Sgt. Duke Solarice Dragoon 09:33, 21 August 2008 (BST)

Already reported. See Bugs and Requests for Information. From what I understand, the 'King has been working on having pets feed themselves, but it seems to have worked too well! -Scrumbucket 09:57, 21 August 2008 (BST)


Snowballs now melt - one per ap spent if not in frozen terrain. I've lost all my snowballs, though I have several pints of water now :) Syagrius 20:41, 10 August 2008 (BST)

Icecubes too! GrumpyNick 13:07, 11 August 2008 (BST)
Not sure about that rate of melting. I've had seven melt (out of over 100) and I've spent several hundred AP, most of it in Oz. Rhapsodie 13:32, 11 August 2008 (BST)

I was on a desert square, and 12 of mine melted too! Never happened before... Waaah. brandy 21:15, 12 August 2008 (BST)

I imagine that this now makes the bling of ice, have a purpose. -Stien 06:23, 18 August 2008 (BST)
Snowballs and Ice cubes melt into water, yes? Anyone attack a witch with the water yet?--LimeHan 06:34, 18 August 2008 (BST)

Quest Templates

As a way to avoid my homework, I went through and cleaned up all the elemental quest pages, took out some excess stuff, added in DSS|GCM links and used a template for the quest overview at the top (check the source of any of the elemental quest pages and you'll see what I mean). If anyone else would like to continue what I was doing for the rest of the quest pages feel free, my eyes are starting to go wonky and I need a break from it.--LimeHan 05:37, 6 August 2008 (BST)

Does that really need a template? It's pretty simple as it is. Kaos Dragon 06:17, 6 August 2008 (BST)

Fish Problem

From IRC:

<@Sert|ProbablyLurking> I have to say, this whole fishing puzzle is disturbingly realistic.
<@Sert|ProbablyLurking> Schools of fish, scattered across a vast ocean
<@Sert|ProbablyLurking> Sailors on land, poring over maps
<@Sert|ProbablyLurking> Trawlers steaming around, not catching fish
<@Sert|ProbablyLurking> When someone finds a school, the call will go out and the trawlers will
descend on that spot
<@Sert|ProbablyLurking> Soon, the oceans will be overfished and become barren

That's exactly what happened!

Also from IRC:

<AndyLandy> Are jellyfish extinct /already/ ?
<AndyLandy> You people were quick

It seems the respawn of new fish is tied somehow to the number of fish already in the shoal. Like real world fish. So when we discovered and fished out that Jelly Fish shoal, that meant that it'd now take longer for more to reappear... if they do at all. I suspect this is going to be inevitable for a while because everyone wants to type their horsies - and we have lots of them - but I thought I'd better post this to start a discussion on whether we as a group can exercise a bit of restraint somehow? What do people think? -- Rhapsodie 09:35, 3 August 2008 (BST)

I, the proud non-owner of a Trawler, support this! PotatoEngineer 18:21, 3 August 2008 (BST)
Pity, really. I assume nobody has extras for sale? S. Mackie 18:29, 3 August 2008 (BST)
If you provide my alt Shan at the earth city trading post with the materials (plus some extras, so I can give more away for free) I'd be glad to produce a trawler for you. --Ade 18:40, 3 August 2008 (BST)
Although one does not need jellyfish to type a horsie. Hooves work for jelly too, without the need to put to sea. Syagrius 20:17, 3 August 2008 (BST)
That's not the case. Jelly and Jelly Fish are quite different. An Agar Dish requires a Jelly Fish, not Jelly. -- Sertularian 20:20, 3 August 2008 (BST)
However, if you find evidence that Jelly is a useful substitute, please edit the wiki accordingly. S. Mackie 19:23, 4 August 2008 (BST)

Sweet, sweet candy

You attack the Pinata in a Tree.
You cause 1 points of damage, and receive 0 experience.
You slay the Pinata in a Tree.
You gain 10 Yellow Candies.
You gain 13 Green Candies.
You gain 9 Black Candies.
You gain a Small Blue Flag.
You gain a D6.
You gain a Night Stick.
You gain 7 Pink Candies.
You gain 224 Gold Pieces.
You gain a Copy of Beyond This Horizon.
You gain 9 Brown Candies.
You gain 6 White Candies.
You gain 14 Purple Candies.
You gain 11 Orange Candies.
You gain 11 Red Candies.
You gain 10 Blue Candies.
It was full of sweets and stuff!

Eating candy gives one HP at the cost of one AP. --Ade 12:28, 1 August 2008 (BST)

Eating a few doesn't seem to have done anything for me apart from use up AP. Ream 16:45, 24 October 2008 (BST)

Win a trawler (over)

We need to find jelly fish for horsie genome sequencing. The few of us are dedicated, but our AP is finite. As such I have started a contest in honor of our latest birthday bash.

I have trawler plans. My alt, Shan, is at the trading post next to the party. If you provide this character with any appreciable quantity of trawler materials (i.e. 20 copper nails or 10 bronze nails or 50 pieces of wood, etc.) your name will be entered into a drawing. The winner of the drawing will receive one brand new trawler, so long as they update the wiki if they find jellyfish. If I receive enough materials for two or more trawlers, there will of course be more winners. Of course you will need to construct your own net, but this goes a long way toward getting you sea worthy!

Wiki bonus: If the winner of the contest uses their trawler, finds jelly fish and documents it on the wiki complete with coordinates, character alignment and method used, they will be awarded 100,000 gold as well as a free pwny of their choice from Starr's Stables once the next generation is birthed.

Drawing will commence within 24 in game hours. --Ade 02:31, 1 August 2008 (BST)

If I drop the whole set on you, will you hand me back a trawler? I don't have the plans. Billz8 02:47, 2 August 2008 (BST)
You can update where you've trawled here. We're trying to coordinate where we look to at least some extent. -- Rhapsodie 02:45, 1 August 2008 (BST)
I can't really do much now, but I notice on the Jelly page that hooves can be rendered down into jellies in large amounts with a cauldron. Perhaps you could open up a lesser contest for players with less of an ability to go fishing for collecting lots of hooves?--LimeHan 07:09, 1 August 2008 (BST)
Is there a use for jelly? I was under the impression that a jelly fish was needed for horse genetics (agar dishes), and that secondary benefits of catching jelly fish were just short of moot. S. Mackie 08:49, 1 August 2008 (BST)
Ah nevermind, I made an assumption that it was jelly you needed, not jellyfish. My bad.--LimeHan 10:07, 1 August 2008 (BST)
If you had an Inseine net is it possible to fishh from a sea horsie? ford_prefect 10:18, 1 August 2008 (BST)
I don't believe so. Phw 22:05, 1 August 2008 (BST)
Contest is over! Sorry it took so long to put together, but I needed to build two of the buggers! Winners are: Sgt. Duke BernardBlack MD (who was given his trawler at the trading post a moment ago) and Cpl. Duke Incen MD (who I just palantir'd). Congratulations! --Ade 01:53, 3 August 2008 (BST)

XML Additions

Any chance of the new quests being added into the XML so I can update my 4cities tool? It's looking very forlorn atm :( --Duke angelsk MD 13:57, 28 July 2008 (BST)

Big Dragons

Tarot deck now has Big Water and Air Dragons. Seem to be in Oz. --Ade 22:57, 19 July 2008 (BST)

All five species of Big Dragons (including Ice) have been seen on Dragon Island. No word of Shrimp, Sewage, Neutral, or Goth varieties, though... -- Thog 23:29, 19 July 2008 (BST)
After an epic flight courtesy of a winged horsie I've discovered just that. I noticed Elan was on the top of a table just after I posted here. The drops don't seem to be terribly good. --Ade 23:32, 19 July 2008 (BST)

Using Glyphs

Anyone figured out how to use the glyphs? They don't work at alchemists, and they didn't seem to work at the uni, but I didn't do a thorough job of combing through the place. Corellis 9:00, 16 Jul 2008 (EST)

Don't even know what they are supposed to do, but perhaps you need to have a certain number or they need to be combined with other items do function. Items which may not be implemented yet.
See Quest:Ruthven's Office --naath 18:45, 26 July 2008 (BST)

Pwny Pairings for Science!

We need more data to test the pwny colour theory we've got. If you're thinking of breeding your horsie and have no other goals in mind (or if you're only thinking of alignment and don't mind what colour the other horsie is), the pairings we need more of are Gray-Black and Gray-Chestnut. (Sorry to the Pinto owners!) Currently both of these crosses have resulted only in pinto offspring, which the theory says is statistically unlikely. -- Rhapsodie 03:43, 12 July 2008 (BST)

An open letter

To whoever's been pestering me with the puzzle game for the last few days:

  1. If you're going to send me a Vigenere cipher, it really helps to give some sort of clue as to the key. "Giving some sort of clue" does NOT include mentioning it in game HOURS later - some of us aren't on 24/7, you know.
  2. It helps to make your puzzles REASONABLY SOLVABLE. We had several people working over your second puzzle (meet you at a location based on the letters in a bag you provided) and guess what? NO ONE could figure it out. The fact that you were only available once a day and only responded with your taunting messages ("you're in the wrong location. I gave you directions" and such) that gave NO ####ing HELP WHATSOEVER made it even worse.

I don't know how much time and AP I've wasted on your idiocy. Tell you what. Next time you have a puzzle thing for me, just drop it in the Dump instead, since that's where it's going.

(Sorry to inflict this ranting on everyone, but whoever this is keeps changing their name before PAYGing me, and switches immediately thereafter, so I have no way to contact him or her privately.)

-- Thog 05:48, 29 June 2008 (BST)


I just recently noticed that I've been getting 'scones' from mining (I currently have a mine built on a crag). Can someone with more knowledge of how the Wiki is organized add this to the proper areas?

"Scone: A traditional dwarven treat, apparently consisting mostly of gravel." Eat (1AP)

You feel sort of healthy. Hiho, hiho... You lose a Scone.

Mining costs have gone down by a factor (No mine: 9AP without spade, 7AP with spade. On a mine: 4AP without spade, and 3AP with spade)

MrBlarney 06:03, 8 June 2008 (BST)

I added it to New Items, along with a bit of speculation as to its effect. I'll let someone with even more knowledge handle the individual pages and construction tables and whatnot. Random4518 06:15, 8 June 2008 (BST)
If somebody's got a spare, I've long since completed the Poison quest and might be able to see the length of the Scone's effects. S. Mackie 07:53, 8 June 2008 (BST)
Well, I've been mining for so long that I've got three more. Once this one wears off I'll chew down another one and record how long it lasts. MrBlarney 08:53, 8 June 2008 (BST)
If you haven't, you probably should find somebody who's completed the Cure Poison quest, just to make sure the numbers are correct. S. Mackie 21:13, 8 June 2008 (BST)
'Current effects: You are full of tasty scone (50).' Jennyann 17:34, 22 June 2008 (BST)

'u's to start disappearing from words?

I just 'practiced' the Viol. I'm sure I used to practise it. At least I've still had enough of practising.... but for how long? Nuru nuru 21:01, 23 May 2008 (JST)

Merchant and the MOTD

A couple of days ago I got around to reading the MOTD. It dealt with warning players not to purchase things from Merchant's store, because he allegedly sells "fake" merchandise. I understand this isn't the first time someone has had trouble with Merchant's yankee trader status.

I'm not terribly concerned about his allegedly "fake" merchandise. I know that whomever sells me something under false pretenses will meet an untimely end. So I don't care. But I understand some players may.

So I can understand why Merchant would cast his own MOTD spell and change the warning to something that benefits him. I do find this incredibly distasteful, though. Especially if the original concern was warranted.

I humbly request a wizard change the MOTD to anything besides a pro or anti Merchant statement. He's been punished. He's had the opportunity to get his word in. It's probably time to get it behind us. --Ade 01:10, 23 May 2008 (BST)

How has he been punished? --Dragon 01:42, 23 May 2008 (BST)
I'd imagine he lost some sales due to the fact that there was a message stating he was a cheating dirtbag at the bottom of the game for quite sometime. And there were illusion signposts around his shop. This is more about me not wanting to see an ad for his shop than it is me thinking he's had enough. That's secondary if anything. --Ade 12:52, 23 May 2008 (BST)
I laughed at him behind his back. Schnorrer 06:39, 23 May 2008 (BST)

I swear, if I was a Wizard I'd just change it to something else; like telling people to get over it. --Prthivi 05:42, 23 May 2008 (BST)

New Stuff and the state of Cities

I noticed the New Stuff page hasn't been updated since October of last year, the wiki has slowed down (perhaps partly because of the precautions taken to reduce spam) and generally the game seems to have taken a dive as far as activity goes.

It seems like a shame that not much has been going on lately. Hell, even 'king Elsewhere has changed his character name to "Absent 'king Elsewhere" (unless that's just someone in my snowball list screwing with a disguise, but I'm pretty sure I wanged Elsewhere with a snowball before they made it so you couldn't).

Any thoughts on this?--LimeHan 16:24, 18 May 2008 (BST)

... uh, great time to take on high-competition quests? S. Mackie 17:28, 18 May 2008 (BST)
It's true that there have been fewer updates to Cities--the GLs tend to be quite busy--but new stuff doesn't always get put on the New Stuff page. The Neutral Zone and the Lost World, in particular, are newer than the latest update. (Also, there are rumors of a new quest--or at least "thing to do"--but DS hasn't given any further hints about it.) So I'd also love to see more game content, but I'm reluctant to nag the GLs about it since this is something they provide for free in their spare time. As for the wiki, I think you're right that the new signup policy has probably deterred a lot of people from making accounts, but they don't seem to have that many options. --Dragon 18:20, 18 May 2008 (BST)
dragon is right I think, and, if you want chit-chat about cities you could always come on IRC - there are people around most days talking about one thing or another. --naath 18:47, 18 May 2008 (BST)
While I do agree that things have been fairly quiet recently, I'm not worried about it. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Cities is dying or going in a downward trend toward such. But I would say I can hear crickets. That being said, I think it's partly the responsibility of the players to drive the game forward. If the community was a bit bigger and more active I'd imagine it'd be more fun for the GLs to work on special little ditties in game. Perhaps the Cities community should try to spread the word a bit more about this glorious little gem. Maybe throw events that specifically benefit new players and pull them into the community? --Ade 01:54, 19 May 2008 (BST)
I don't mind waiting indefinitely for everything else, but I've been waiting forever for the cure for lycanthropy and the ability to freeze pets. Random4518 04:18, 19 May 2008 (BST)
Really? The incomplete Underground bothers you less than the inability to freeze pets? We'll have to differ there. S. Mackie 16:58, 19 May 2008 (BST)
Actually I'd rate lycanthropy and freezing pets above the underground too, just because they are a daily (or semi-regular in the case of pets) occurence. But I still have a couple of quests I haven't done. Rhapsodie 09:44, 20 May 2008 (BST)
If you need something to do, the Mixology Effects could use some better documentation; I'm still curious what the N'gann Potion cures; and apparently the genetics of pwny colour is not *quite* right. Gonzometro 22:29, 19 May 2008 (BST)
I certainly *hope* Cities is just in a naturally slow cycle. I agree with several of the points above. Activity on the wiki has certainly been down a lot lately, and the GLs are busy with Real Life and other priorities, so there hasn't been as much new content recently as we've seen in the past. Some of the more experienced players are idling, waiting for new stuff, and some seem to have left more or less completely. On the other hand, there may just be less wiki activity because most things are pretty well documented already (and, as mentioned, registration is harder). There's obvious quests (and references to quests) that need developing/completing, so once they have some time, I suspect (and hope!) that the GLs aren't quite done with us yet. And while some veterans may leave, new players join every day. Cities is bound to stick to some of them the way it's stuck to us. I quite like Ade's idea for some sort of player-driven event to benefit newbies, which might drive the activity/interest up a bit. I'd be willing to participate/contribute (once I'm done with this hat, of course.) -- Sertularian 23:04, 19 May 2008 (BST)
If the still-remaining graffiti is any indication, you know how to make a major event. Maybe get Thog in on this, too.
What kind of event would benefit new players in an approachable way? S. Mackie 00:07, 20 May 2008 (BST)
It should involve flashing lights, and people in giant panda suits and fake snow...Schnorrer 06:45, 23 May 2008 (BST)

Jeweler Path Open (for now)

Howdy. If one goes to the cave entrance at 69 31 and goes beneath the earth and follows the general layout of the mined tunnels, they will eventually come to the jeweler without a need to mine. I happened upon some tunnels someone had already dug and did some of my own. Refer to the ASCII map on the jeweler quest page for reference. --Ade 20:45, 10 May 2008 (BST)

You're welcome. I had about 20k AP to burn and so I dug around for a few hours opening straight paths to most of the interesting stuff down there. Though I suppose things have collapsed by now. - Heyus2 08:15, 28 May 2008 (BST)
Thank you kind sir. I had grown frustrated and quit the underground adventures twice prior to then. --Ade 16:23, 28 May 2008 (BST)
Good to see you again. I seem to recall you made it on my "nice" list at some point, but can't recall why. I need to start publishing my Naughty and Nice lists, I think, just to keep track. S. Mackie 16:56, 28 May 2008 (BST)

Mercer, my prized Horsie, is now Elite

Just thought I'd say. Arrived at Elite status at 27 weeks, only slightly behind schedule, not remotely evil. S. Mackie 08:17, 4 May 2008 (BST)

Well done. My horsie, Billomina, got to Elite at 53 weeks, just before she turned one! Rhapsodie 13:25, 4 May 2008 (BST)
Uh, wouldn't that be just after she turned one, as a year is only 52 weeks? :) Syagrius 16:35, 4 May 2008 (BST)
Good point. It was a week before (51) - I just had a brain fart when I left the comment. Rhapsodie 00:18, 5 May 2008 (BST)
Regardless, near her first birthday. Question. Did she sit at Max AP frequently, as happens when you don't have a chance to train her? Or did she simply have runs of bad luck? S. Mackie 16:39, 4 May 2008 (BST)
Max AP, I am afraid. Though given she's popped out 6 babies in that time, I'd prefer to think of it as "resting"! ;) Rhapsodie 00:18, 5 May 2008 (BST)
Ah. I'll have to work hard to break my habit of compulsively keeping the horsie's AP down. I've suffered a little psychosis in keeping to this schedule, so I'm happy it paid off promptly. Regardless, it's going to be a difficult demobilization. S. Mackie 03:02, 5 May 2008 (BST)
Addendum: According to Sertularian's calculations, my Horsie was almost precisely one week behind schedule in arriving at Elite!. 190 days, 10 hours vs. the prescribed 183d 8h likely schedule. 17:28, 4 May 2008 (BST)

Poor Hat Etiquette

I've just added a suggestion to the etiquette page: that it is bad etiquette to hide in the locked area of your guild hall when you have a hat on. As far as I know, there's no way to steal a hat in these circumstances (except to be a part of that guild), and I'd be mighty ticked off if the GLs felt the need to modify locked squares to make them less secure - it'd really undermine the whole storeroom/teleporter thing. (Unless there's a change so that, if someone is in a locked square with a hat, that square isn't locked till they leave or the hat is stolen - that would be karma at work!) Rhapsodie 05:06, 27 April 2008 (BST)

Bringing up another issue: when hats have been unstealable before (there was a time when there was no way to enter a square with a boat), the GLs acted quickly to create Grappling Hooks so you could steal hats from a boat. If you continue to hide your hat on a locked square, chances are very good that the GLs will come up with some counter-measure to prevent people from hiding hats on locked terrain.
Now consider: what would be the easiest way to keep people with hats from hiding on locked terrain? By preventing people with hats from moving onto said locked terrain. This is, in a word, BAD. Do not encourage the GLs to try this--or any similar--solution. Don't hide your hat on locked terrain. PotatoEngineer 06:43, 27 April 2008 (BST)
Remember the "build a hill fort to protect a hat" behavior? Trebuchets! Will we get lockpicks to break into locked terrain? :) Syagrius 05:16, 5 May 2008 (BST)
IIRC, protecting hats was basically the point of hill forts. The scarcity of permits and the fact that you were trapped inside made it less abusable. Trebuchets were a convenient in-game way to clean up empty forts (there are a couple of ways to get out of a fort without dismantling it, such as not logging in for a week and getting sent to Limbo). Now, there's no scarcity of permits, but trebuchets exist as well, so hill forts aren't really unbalancing. Regardless, I think the grappling hook analogy is a better one--there was an abusable way to hide a hat, and when someone pointed it out, it was fixed in a matter of hours. Lockpicks would be terrible; they would allow thieves to break into guild stores, and I'm fiercely possessive of the Treasure Pile, but hopefully there's a better fix. Overall, though, I'm with Rhapsodie--don't force the GLs to do something about this.... --Dragon 07:29, 5 May 2008 (BST)

A reminder and a plea

To the Air aligned player who's spent the past two weeks (at least) trying to fertilize the void of space with Earth Worms: Please, please, clean up after yourself. While I haven't been playing as much as I used to, and I appreciate topping out the Earth Worm (Ha!) kill league, sometimes I'd like to log in to kill, you know, space monsters actually in space. This has happened before, and before that, and more recently so I'll chalk this up to a newer player being unaware of the etiquette. So, just a reminder and a plea. Thanks! Snare 22:13, 24 April 2008 (BST)

Maybe the STB (Space Tourist Bureau) should sponsor an announcement upon leaving the Space Elevator and flyers posted around the space station about the ecologic importance of killing your earthworms after you're done. (And if you arrive via R'1yeh, perhaps a warning from Y0g-So7ho7h?) -Scrumbucket 23:25, 24 April 2008 (BST)

Pwny Looking For A Home

My Horsie, Billomina, recently gave birth to a black pwny (out of Morvarc'h the War Horsie - you can see its pedigree papers here). Said pwny, temporarily named Stomp, is now looking for a home. It is likely to grow up into either a War Horsie or a Horsie, though theoretically anything is possible.

I am looking for an owner who has completed the Animal Sanctuary quest and who will update the Pedigree page with the relevant details as they come to hand (type, sex, new name, any breedings). (I suppose this might be better put on the Advertisements page, but I am not actually asking for anything in exchange except for the commitment to be a good owner!) Please either palantir me or leave a message on my talk page if you're interested. Rhapsodie 09:32, 15 April 2008 (BST)

I would offer to take this wonderfully bread pwny, but I dont know if you'd trust a pet killer.....I just logged on today and realised that I had not fed my pets.....ALL of them are dead - one goldfish, 1 war horsie and 1 pwny. *SOB* - Kressida 08:35, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Urban Dead

Does anyone else play Urban Dead? Who are you? Where are you? What are you? A rotting corpse, hell bent on feasting on human flesh? A determined survivor who survives only by looting ransacked malls? Or a deranged criminal taking advantage of the lawless situation? I'm curious as to if any of my cities brothers and sisters play. --Ade 14:36, 13 April 2008 (BST)

  • I have a zombie, Grrgle, but I haven't logged in for about 1000 years. -Jon 16:18, 13 April 2008 (BST)
This is really the only MMO I play. Not to disparage MMOs, just... well, this is kinda it for me. :) S. Mackie 18:30, 13 April 2008 (BST)
Is this really a MMO? I always felt Cities was more like a MUD than a MMO. I don't quite see the "Massive" part, but then again, I haven't looked at the connection stats recently. :) (On a different note, what idiot thought "Massively Multiplayer" was a good term to define a genre? Presumably one that didn't think he was defining a genre, but that begs the question: What kind of idiots are we for letting such a dumb name stick? </rant>)
To answer the original question: I have six characters on Urban Dead, four of which were zombies last time I checked, several months ago. (Gotta love games that never delete your characters!) Most are relatively good people doing what they can to help with the "situation" (when they're alive that is), but I do have one guy that works for NecroTech and another that actually prefers life as a zombie. -Scrumbucket 18:52, 13 April 2008 (BST)
Really, we just call them MMORPGs because we like to hear Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw say "mamorpuguh." S. Mackie 19:31, 13 April 2008 (BST)
I don't play it at the moment, but I had a feral zombie, a PKer (with the Philosopher Knights and 2 survivors, a loner, and one who was part of Guetto cow, when that group existed.--Che-T۞ 20:39, 13 April 2008 (BST)
I no longer play, but I had a survivor in the Malton Emergency Medical Services for a while. Even made it up the ranks to being Paramedic of a suburb. Of course, it helped that MEMS didn't have terribly much in the way of members. PotatoEngineer 21:56, 13 April 2008 (BST)
I play a couple of characters. My main occupation at the moment is zombie, but that's only because the north 85 percent of the city has been absolutely destroyed. When the situation for the living is.. slightly.. better I play a deranged criminal. I go around murdering people. It's pretty fun. --Ade 13:06, 14 April 2008 (BST)
I actually first found out about cities because I played UD and wanted something more difficult, and then I stop playing after getting hooked on cities. --Sir Garry 13:46, 14 April 2008 (BST)

I found The Zombie Survival Handbook at Borders for a discounted price. It renewed an interest in zombies for me, so I sought out zombie things. I found Urban Dead and become a nefarious little criminal. I too came over to Cities from UD, but my main reason was I was looking for a more relaxed atmosphere. There's a hell of a lot of meta gaming drama in UD, so Cities was a refreshing change of pace for me. Players here are typically laid back and willing to go out on a limb for one another. I like that. Cities is by far the superior game. --Ade 18:14, 14 April 2008 (BST)

You should also pick up a copy of World War Z, also by Max Brooks (son of Mel Brooks; yes, *that* Mel Brooks). The audio book is way cool too, if abridged. --Tiltowait 14:49, 15 April 2008 (BST)

I played Urban Dead back before I found Cities, however long ago that was. I had a group of about 10 friends that formed the Free Tebbet campaign, which is long gone. We had the Dollai Lama, who would hurt no one. And a number of characters that tried to protect him and the Tebbet Building. For a while we had all of New Arkham under control. Then I found Cities. I prefer this friendly game that doesn't involve PKing, and worrying that you're not online while someone else is hacking at your char. The Quests are great, and everything about Cities is better, imho. (oh, the wiki still has our flag (courtesy of me) on the page, but the huge manifestos and such we made from real Dallai Lama's speeches are gone.) density 13:42, 15 April 2008 (BST)

I played UD a while back, but admit I didn't much care for a couple of things: logging in to find out you didn't survive the night; not enough inventory & stuff; too many people and yet not enough interesting personalities. I much preferred KoL, but dropped it after my heavy-weight main character (the original Tiltowait) got auto-removed after going inactive for too long. Cities is less tongue-in-cheek than KoL, but much less grim and generally friendly than UD. --Tiltowait 14:49, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Tiltowait: Yeah. I bought World War Z the day it came out. I really enjoyed it. I found the audio book unabridged a couple of months ago. The voice acting was great and everything in it was lived up to the portrait the book painted. But it the version I nabbed they cut out a lot of important characters. The Australian ISS commander, the Chinese submariner, the feral girl and the kawaii Japanese geek to name a couple. It was the only disappointing part.
I played KoL too. I have some friends who got really into it. We had a guild that went by the name of THE DISCIPLES OF FATMOUSE, but I eventually stopped playing. I was a pastamacer or somesuch. I had a couple of familiars that I was proud of. I now pretty much just play Cities with UD as an after thought. --Ade 17:06, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Cthu1hu and I played Urban Dead for a long time - we even founded our own group The Kempsterbank Neighbourhood Watch. The player killing and constantly waking up a zombie killed it for me. I enjoy playign cities much more. Kressida 08:38, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Hitchhiking to Bognor

Would any charitable soul in the Bognor region kindly summon me, pretty please? --Tiltowait 13:40, 7 April 2008 (BST)

I'm not anywhere near Bognor, but you know you can get there via Horn of Heimdall, right? If you're going there to get a horn, ignore this statement :-) -- Thog 16:35, 7 April 2008 (BST)
Sadly, I haven't grown tired of free daily snacks yet. So I'm back to hitchhiking. --Tiltowait 21:39, 7 April 2008 (BST)


Perhaps this should go under recovery, but I just had to share: Last night, my husband (El Kappytan) and I (Maaaweee) went out for Indian food with some friends. I ordered the Chicken Vindaloo because, frankly, I didn't know what Vindaloo was and I had always wondered why a Vindaloo Monster did what it did. The food came, I took a BIG bite and, as my eyes were welling up with tears, I said, "It burns, it burns!" My husband shouted "Attack it with a Can of Lager!" Our friends were confused and unimpressed. We made no apologies. --Mawenpea 03:04, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Even if they don't play Cities, they really should go watch some Red Dwarf! Rhapsodie 08:17, 2 April 2008 (BST)
They didn't find that cute at all? Sheesh. I use the Vindaloo Monster as an example of the game's hilarity, and it kills! So to speak. S. Mackie 17:46, 2 April 2008 (BST)
Well, I would have laughed. --Tiltowait 22:15, 2 April 2008 (BST)
Reading things like this makes me realise why I enjoy doing Cities... :) Darksatanic 14:15, 3 April 2008 (BST)


So, I'm stuck on an aircraft heading down to Oz, wondering how I get off. According to the wiki, it should take 24 hours, but I used the 'return to oz' ticket sometime on Saturday (can't remember when, but it was much more than 24 hours ago), and the flight still hasn't ended. Last time I used a ticket, I'm sure it just teleported me to Oz after 24 hours, with none of this equipment confiscation business and messing around with aircraft. Anyone have any suggestions on how to leave? --Sam 12:54, 31 March 2008 (BST)

I am afraid I don't kow what to do if you are stuck, but I know when I flew to Oz I got confused because you don't leave the air craft when you get there, just a button appears marked leave or exit or something. I am sure you probably have looked but just incase... good luck ford_prefect 15:14, 31 March 2008 (BST)
That was it, thanks Ford. I didn't see it amongst all the other buttons and equipped items. --Sam 17:03, 31 March 2008 (BST)
Horay, happy to help (and to know that someone else did it too...(and that you aren't going to come and try and attack me for suggesting you would be as daft as I...) :o) Happy Oz-ing ford_prefect 17:18, 31 March 2008 (BST)
I haven't seen the plane setup (generally use the Order of the Wyrm's teleporter to get to Oz), but the AutoExit Greasemonkey script (originally designed for the space elevator) may work for it as well, if the button's labeled the same -- Thog 17:48, 31 March 2008 (BST)

Bound Plot Weapons

Started wondering recently whether using a bound spirit with a plot weapon would work for saving on getting plot weapons,anyone tried this yet? Considering you're not going to be fighting anything other then bunnies with plot weapons it seems like it would work well,but it might not be cost effective,might not stack due to the weapon properties or something... Gaby 07:22, 22 March 2008 (GMT)

Well, the weapons do work on non-Bunnies, to my understanding. Odds are this means they're just special to bunnies, not to anything else. I'd say it's worth the trouble of trying, at least for one guinea pig. Do we have any tribble ranchers, who have little to lose but experience vs. them damn hungry ghosts? S. Mackie 07:25, 22 March 2008 (GMT)
Bound spirits can't be used on plot weapons; but I don't know how much use that would be anyway. When I was killing bunnies I made sure it would only take one hit to despatch the fella by aligning them to the weaker alignment and using a killing blow spell. Blue pills can be useful too. Or so I've heard. Ahem. Nuru nuru 00:17, 23 March 2008 (JST)
Some plot weapons really are weaker than others, and as I recall, some bunnies have more HP than others. It should be possible to take out a Plot Bunny with only one blow, but sometimes it proves slightly difficult in my brief experience. Were one able to bind plot weapons, one might have a slightly better time of it. Still, it really isn't strictly necessary. (Good thing it isn't, eh?) S. Mackie 15:55, 22 March 2008 (GMT)
Oops,thought bound items had more endurance for some reason,guess it's back to the drawing board if binding them doesn't work anyway. :) Gaby 16:11, 22 March 2008 (GMT)
If I'm not very much mistaken when bound spirits were first brought into the game as a possible Christmas present back in 2006, they made weapons indestructible. Even glass swords. But that was a bug which only lasted a fortnight or so. Nuru nuru 11:27, 23 March 2008 (JST)
No, I think it lasted longer then that, but I can't remember how long exactly. I know, I used a Glass Sword (Bling Wrath bane) for some time as a Duke (seeing as it never broke), then became an Apprentice, it lost it's effectiveness for me, due to a lack of damage multiplier, and I sold it to Jon for 300k. - Cameron 20:31, 25 March 2008 (GMT)

Hey There Party People

I have a rig, but would like some suggestions about when and where to host the party. I assume people don't want a party straight after Disco Stoos, but when would be good? Does anyone have any ideasabout where would be good? Jennyann 20:44, 20 March 2008 (GMT)

The classic "best" party location is Imemorial Park in Earth City, next to the Shrine in the middle of town; this is because it's 2AP from most places. Of course, because lots of parties/pentacles have been hosted there, it's also the most boring location.
Personally, I'm in favor of boring in this case.  :) PotatoEngineer 23:23, 20 March 2008 (GMT)
Is there any call for a party in Oz? Jennyann 14:19, 22 March 2008 (GMT)
It's easy enough these days with guild teleporters for people who need Oz to get there - and with the new northern terrain, I'd imagine more people want to bum around in this hemisphere. (But I could be wrong!) Rhapsodie 00:03, 24 March 2008 (GMT)
Ok, so. this hemisphere - but when? are we ready for one now, or would you all like to wait a bit? Jennyann 19:18, 30 March 2008 (BST)
I'd say wait a little, but that's out of selfishness. I've other things to be doing. S. Mackie 19:36, 30 March 2008 (BST)

Nice Touch

Just wanted to say making Gygax spirit-aligned is a nice gesture. TheRealKilgore

Too many...

I was just looking at my inventory and noticed I have far more food and beverage items on my person than weaponry or other "useful" things. Anyone else in the same condition?  :) Syagrius 05:38, 7 March 2008 (GMT)

My tribbles keep the food and beverages down, but I have a similar problem with non-edible junk (especially all those CDs!). The funny thing is, the useless weapons I have bother me more. I seriously doubt I will have use for 95% of my weapons inventory ever again. I posted an idea for dealing with all that junk a while ago, but I don't suppose it's much use while Pentacles still serve as Trading Posts... -Scrumbucket 08:00, 7 March 2008 (GMT)
I'd be willing to trade for (or flat out buy) some of the more useless items that fall under the Weapon section of your invetory; my Weapon Collection hungers for more additions. --Prthivi 21:13, 7 March 2008 (GMT)

Bridge to Holiday Island

The bridge to holiday island is rickety. FYI. I do not have the ability to maintain it.--Ade 21:02, 1 March 2008 (GMT)

Spells on the Open Market

I have acquired an awful lot of spells and have really no concept of their value. I'm happy as a Duke and have no plan to change career path. What spells are rare, what are their value on the markets and how much can I sell them for?? -- Ketchup 17:12, 29 February 2008 (GMT)

Most spells are pretty cheap. You can look at current market prices at http://citiesberg.shonky.co.uk/lowest.cgi . In general L3 spells are much rarer than the others, but there's no guarantee of demand. --Dragon 17:27, 29 February 2008 (GMT)
A spell will save a mage 2 AP (if you compare it with an opened spell book). If you compare it with an unopened spell book if will save him 3 AP and 1 mana for Level 1 spell books, 5 AP and 3 mana for level 2 and 12 AP and 10 mana for a level 3 spell book. If the spell is forced (cast without reagents) it will save even more. Then, of course, there is as Dragon pointed out supply and demand that determines the price. Personally I value a L1 spell to 50-100 GP, a L2 spell to 100-300 GP and a L3 spell to 1000-5000 GP. Naturally it also depends on whether I have the particular spell in my spell book or not. My recommendation is that you price the following L1 spells a little bit higher then the others: Fire Ball, Zephyr, Sod, Water Bomb, Become (Air, Fire, Earth, Water), Bashing Stuff, Fleeting Strenght, Killing Blow and Impending Kick. These are attack spells and damage multiplier spells and mages usually have a constand demand for them. Don't know what price you can get, why not try selling part of them for 100, part for 200, part for 300 etc thereby measuring the demand level? Don't know about other mages, but I would consider these spells to be rather overpriced at 500 GP. (And for 50 GP I would consider it cheap) --Liquid 21:30, 29 February 2008 (GMT)

Heavily poisoned

My new character, Mark Salen is at the Water City shrine. He's been doing snake research / bone collecting. Suffice to say, he's a little poisoned. 14 levels. For the aspiring blue flower questers, he shall be in Water City for quite sometime. Feel free to drop by and cure a level or two. --Ade 04:14, 24 February 2008 (GMT)

Um, you do realize that blue flower questers only get credit if they COMPLETELY cure you, right? In other words, either someone has to cure you 7 times (and receive credit for 1) or 6 people won't get any credit. Might be worth curing yourself down a bit. -- Thog 04:32, 24 February 2008 (GMT)
Why do people keep doing this? Drink some of your own antidote, then ask people when you're at a reasonable level. (By the way, I've got one poison level, and am at the fire shrine.) --Dragon 05:07, 24 February 2008 (GMT)
I'm asking for assistance because it's a new character who lacks gold, doses of antidote and the ability to get to Brighthelm easily. And 14 levels of poison is rather difficult to deal with when hunting bats. God forbid someone offer a helping hand when it doesn't benefit them to an extraordinary degree. Why do people continue to heal one another after the MD quests have been completed? It's nice to help someone in need, if they feel so inclined. You didn't have to be an ass, Dragon. Christ. It's a bit easier for you to find one dose and use it on yourself. --Ade 14:58, 24 February 2008 (GMT)
Well, I took care of your problems, but I'm still with dragon when it comes to this kind of thing. There's no reason that you have to wait until 14 (or only the 12 that I had to cure) to go and wait for others to cure you. Stop at 6 or maybe even 8, and then go spend your AP on something else for a while (That's the great thing about cities, there's so much else to do). And as for Dragon having one level and waiting for others to use it on him, I see that as a service to others, because it's really hard to find people to cure (I'm at 10 now, after using 6 doses on you). Sir Garry 15:12, 24 February 2008 (GMT)
Exactly--I have antidote I could have used on myself, but figured someone would want the cure for the quest. (Must have, since I was cured within a few minutes.) I just think that asking people to cure you for more than a few levels is rather excessive--particularly if you know well enough to not get yourself into that situation to begin with. --Dragon 23:23, 24 February 2008 (GMT)
It's not hard to hunt bats. You don't need to go for the bloody huge ones that give you a bazillion doses. The regular ones are all over the place, only 20 HP 1-2 dam, and have about a 20% chance of dropping an antidote. If I see a bat, I'll usually kill it. By doing this since I started playing, I've accumulated about 40 doses in spite of selling it on the markets and being poisoned fairly often (personal record: 23 levels *grin*). The point is: antidote is not hard to get, even for a new character. I would be sympathetic if it was a newbie who didn't know, or an oldie that made a silly mistake, but 14 levels when you know you have no antidote is willful negligence.
That said, I am not against helping out in this situation in principle. I've said it every time I see someone with excessive poison levels: I'm happy to give anyone the antidote to cure themselves down to 1-2 levels and then finish them off. (How else am I going to burn 40 antidotes?) The only problem is getting both players to a trading post. Would anyone else be interested in forming an Anti-Venom Response Team similar to Thee Hippocratic Order of Flying Doctors? -Scrumbucket 22:27, 24 February 2008 (GMT)
I did wonder if as apparently healing one person multiple times counts (as long as they are healed completly each time) whether to form teams of people wishing to do snake research (or giant mutant triffid hunting...) could team up with someone doing the quest and set aside a few days to dice with death, allowing for lots of little healings without having to come down and advertise each time (let me know if anyone fancies a quick trip) ford_prefect 11:18, 25 February 2008 (GMT)
That's a good idea, ford, but I've also been considering trying to throw a triffid sting abuse "party." It wouldn't actually be a party, as we'd all gain ap from abusing the triffid stings, but we'd all just hang out, abuse one sting, smelt some ore (or some other activity that wastes ap), wait to be healed, get healed, and repeat. Sir Garry 13:14, 25 February 2008 (GMT)
Anti-Venom Response Team?? You mean the AV Club?!? I'm in! I've always wanted to be in the AV Club! PAYG Denny Crane! --Mawenpea 04:59, 26 February 2008 (GMT)

If you want to see really heavily poisoned, check out Duck hull_fox on floor 6 of the Mall. 84 levels of poison! o_O -Stelio 18:57, 27 February 2008 (GMT)


Image:Cricket match.jpg

Has anyone been over to the Cricket Grounds recently? I just dropped by to give Brian his cake, and noticed a "4th ODI ODI at Napier" nearby. When I walked over, it just says:

at Napier: Match not started

Does this mean we can play cricket now? -Scrumbucket 01:14, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

No. From IRC:
darksatanic:	Right. Think I've fixed the cricketers.
darksatanic:	If there's a Test or One Day International going on, they show the
current batsmen and their scores.
darksatanic:	Plus the scoreboard shows the score.
darksatanic:	I showed it to elseware and he just said "You're mad". :)
-- Thog 01:52, 20 February 2008 (GMT)
Mad like a fox! That's just damn cool!!!! Phw 02:15, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

Lost World

I'd like a summon out there, I don't mind starting a new table if need be. Hamelin 16:46, 17 February 2008 (GMT)

X-Himy can be summoned and is ready to play -- X-Himy 03:02, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
Augh, shit, you summoned the wrong character, it's gotta be LimeHan. Sorry about that, I haven't played that account in over a year. And I just now realize I can change the display name in my wiki options. Bleh. Sorry about that.--LimeHan 05:44, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
Er, and I just checked, Hamelin is still on Holiday island too. Uhh?--LimeHan 05:51, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
Sorry about that - it was Havelock, not Hamelin, who was waiting with me. I was confused by the "H" names. My apologies. -- Sertularian 13:25, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

TribbleRanch would like to play. Random4518 08:13, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

So would I. (And my hat is gone so I can be summoned now.) -Scrumbucket 21:02, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
I still want to be summoned!--LimeHan 01:19, 19 February 2008 (GMT)

I set up an area on the Lost_World_Entrance page to list games in need of players.

Entangled wool

So, uh, anyone know how to make it? Syagrius 19:56, 17 February 2008 (GMT)

Use a Bucket of Planckton with an Entangled Fleece to get a Busy Bucket of Planckton. After two hours you can remove Entangled Wool from the Bucket. Flt 20:10, 17 February 2008 (GMT)
Ok, so where does the entangled fleece come from? Is that something that's dropped? Syagrius 23:45, 17 February 2008 (GMT)
You are able to shear an entagled fleece off of a Quantum Sheep every 2 weeks. Sir Garry 00:45, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

Pimpin' ain't easy

...so in order to help those who find trudging through the deep Jungles of Oz tricky, I'm offering a limited amount of summons direct to the Goodyear Pimp. (I suppose it would be even better if we did one of those lovely communal summon chains where once summoned, you then summon the next person on the list.) Any takers before I disappear to some other part of the game world on Wednesday afternoon? :-) -Stelio 19:58, 12 February 2008 (GMT)

I'm game, and I have a bunch of spare stones to contribute. Summon LimeHan please.--Hamelin 22:45, 12 February 2008 (GMT)
Me too, I have a couple of stones and am happy to summon others. Please summon hollyhamster ford_prefect 00:36, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

Both merry punters happily appeared in the midst of the leafy foliage and pungent ganja smoke. I'll leave any more summon requests in their hands. I'm off! :-D -Stelio 09:06, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

I'll hang around for a while, anyone else want a summon?--Hamelin 00:40, 14 February 2008 (GMT)

I'm gonna stick around for the rest of the day today, so last call on summons!--Hamelin 15:29, 14 February 2008 (GMT)
Is it too late to get a summons to Oz? It doesn't matter precisely where since I've already been to the Pimp. -Scrumbucket 04:59, 15 February 2008 (GMT)
Tried to summon to just south of the pimp but it didn't work... ford_prefect 14:34, 15 February 2008 (GMT)
Guess he shoulda drunk more beer. S. Mackie 16:51, 15 February 2008 (GMT)
I umm just realized that I still have the hat I stole a while back. Guess I better withdraw that summon request. My apologies, Ford. -Scrumbucket 18:52, 15 February 2008 (GMT)
I'd give props to any gangsta' that can summon me to the pimp. - Cameron 22:13, 17 February 2008 (GMT)
I have just run out of AP but I'll summon you about 10 game time when my AP returns and my lecture ends :o) happy pimpin' ford_prefect 08:55, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
Or not, apparently that didn't work either :o( summoning just seems to hate me, sorry ford_prefect 09:43, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
Er, sorry that was my bad, try again, I was wearing a hat - Cameron 21:18, 18 February 2008 (GMT)
I hate to ask this, but is there anyway someone is able to summon me again? I lost my 'net for awhile, and I had a Baby Badger that needed to be fed, but I couldn't. I'm really starting to hate that quest. - Cameron 15:39, 19 February 2008 (GMT)
I managed to summon you this morning did that work? ford_prefect 16:40, 19 February 2008 (GMT)
It worked, but then I was tele'd to the dungeon. - Cameron 19:28, 19 February 2008 (GMT)

Destroy All Monsters, Please!

Just your periodic reminder to kill all monsters so the good ones don't get crowded out. This time I'm referring to air-aligned Adolescent Tortoises. It's almost impossible to walk through certain parts of the sewers now due to the glut of these creatures. Do yourself a favor when you're farming for ninja weapons and kill all varieties of tortoise. If that's not enough to get you to clean up after yourself... I got a record while cleaning up after you today, so there! :P -Scrumbucket 22:21, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

Hence the party games I'm running for monster kills. I had focused on Dianogas as there's no way to distinguish tortoises on the killing list... Phw 22:48, 11 February 2008 (GMT)
I wholeheartedly agree that you should kill every monster you see, in any area of the game. This helps cool monsters to spawn. No one wants to live in a world overrun with Small Water Dragons, Koalas, and Air-aligned Adolescent Tortoises. This is also a good time to mention that one of the more effective ways of completing the AMAT quest is to actually stay in one place and kill everything that spawns. --JAD 23:56, 11 February 2008 (GMT)
So I should Destroy All Monsters... In the spirit of this request, I'd like to propose a new spell. GodZilla, which would make movement expensive (as per Wyrm and Wombat) but would give Werewolf-level claws (and that aggravating werewolf "all things are hostile" mechanic) while providing those claws with the equivalent of first level Nunchuck training. Truly, an encouragement to kill all monsters. S. Mackie 05:51, 12 February 2008 (GMT)

re: Duplicate Pentacles

It is generally advantageous to a sorcerer to be on a pentacle, so long as it exists, at the end of every hour until it is gone. Unlike a party, a pentacle never sends you to a maximum which must be spent for efficiency's sake.
A week without a pentacle is a week with less mana. For those of us saving our mana up for Time Warps and Solvents, which come out to a surprisingly large amount of mana, it's best to hop from pentacle to pentacle as they become available.
When two pentacles are activated at the same time, this limits the potential benefit from these pentacles; one cannot benefit from two pentacles at the same time. Activating one a few hours before the passing of the first is one thing; it's potentially irritating, but one quickly forgets. Activating a third pentacle over the top of the one which was started before the first was even gone speaks of waste.
It also implies that, next week, there won't be a pentacle because all the available Acles have been squandered.
Really, you can spend your Acles how you wish; it's a free country. Be aware, however, that some behaviors will get an old fuddy duddy's ire up. The All Self-Important S. Mackie 04:00, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

Yezz yezz the premature pentacle :) Apologies Smackie, I agree it was questionable etiquette starting one before the other ended, but it had neeeearly finished and I got overexcited when my honey started the party... (I didn't know about the third penty though, that is a bit wasteful) I accept my spanking Smackie. Kisses and make-up xxx Chlamydia 08:28, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

*Shrugs* Like I said, potentially irritating, but one quickly forgets and enjoys the new Penty when the old one shortly dies. Mostly, I thought I'd point out how frustrating the string of Penties was. To whine, and whine good.
I'm'a shut up now. S. Mackie (or, apparently, Smackie) 08:43, 11 February 2008 (GMT)
I have enough Acles for three pentacles. While I agree it's a waste to have two pentacles running at the same time, if there comes a period where there is no pentacle for sometime, I, or my good friend Prthivi will create one. So if these pentacles running at the same time means missing on in the near future, I shall pick up the slack. To be honest with you, I think the same is true to a slightly lesser extent with parties and pentacles. When I was a mage I nearly always opted to use a party. --Ade 13:55, 11 February 2008 (GMT)
Mana's pretty precious to me as a Shaman, so I tend to opt for the Penty. I've been considering hitting up the party, though, since my main task right now is very AP intensive. S. Mackie 16:17, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

"Waste not, want not," no? Snare 17:26, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

Let Me Whine For a Moment

I just need someone to love me, pat me on the head and say "poor little bunny, poor little bunny" because today I am sad. I wore out 3 Earth Catanas, an Earth Sword and an Earth Bow in shortly 24 hours time. Anyone else have strokes of particularly evil luck like this before? Poor little funny bunny. --Mawenpea 00:35, 29 January 2008 (GMT)

Aw. Poor little bunny. Stop by the shop and you can tell me all about it. -- Sertularian 00:44, 29 January 2008 (GMT)
Also, because I really, truly sympathize...
Happens I spent all morning collecting Bound Gnomes. I just attached one to a Catana I'm willing to send your way at no cost. (I think you've paid enough for one day.) It doesn't replace your stock, but I thought I'd offer. S. Mackie 06:17, 29 January 2008 (GMT)
You peeps are lovely, I truly appreciate the condolences! Sert, your stuff served me well...I'll be back to your store in a second when I get the gold again. S. Mackie, you're a peach, too! I'll PAYG you when I've served my time in the shrine. (sheesh, this makes my accidental suicide on that last Triffid seem a little dramatic.) --Mawenpea 15:47, 29 January 2008 (GMT)
I once managed to lose two Daemonic Chainsaws in the space of two days. You are not alone. Darksatanic 16:04, 29 January 2008 (GMT)
I'll see that and raise you Worst Day Ever. MrFoo 16:56, 29 January 2008 (GMT)
Daemonic Chain Saw, Daemonic Great Sword, Fire Bow, and the first-ever (and only, at the time) Murder Bow. (I believe there was also a vorpal or two, but those have a high break rate so it didn't stick in my mind.) --Dragon 17:36, 29 January 2008 (GMT)
5 Gold Blings in 70 actions and a Furious Bow the very same day. *Sob* --Bubba_the_Shy 19:25, 6 February 2008 (GMT)


Can't PAYG you until you have a palantir. S. Mackie 09:00, 31 January 2008 (GMT)

Whoops...Dead, depressed, weaponless and palantirless. I feel a blues song coming on. Just kidding, I just PAYGed you. --Mawenpea 15:09, 31 January 2008 (GMT)
On another note... A suggestion, automatically turning Goth for a short post-mortem period. --Bubba_the_Shy 08:52, 1 February 2008 (GMT)

The Great Cities Project

I have an alt by the name of Shan. It doesn't really do much besides sit around on holiday island, slowly gathering massive amounts of AP. I occasionally leave and blow a thousand or so for the hell of it, but by and large it's not doing anything important. So I thought I'd come up with an elaborate plan to spend its AP nest egg and subsequent AP.

Possible plans are as follows:

Guildspace Explorer: Here I'd load it down with clean bandages, hista killers, kinky fashion, glowing armor/weapons/lanterns, spades and pick axes. I'd dump EVERYTHING else into the dump and wear a disguise kit to prevent me from going into limbo and a pair of lead shoes to prevent me from being summoned (or maybe a Christmas hat). Then I'd just set off into guild space, never to return. Eventually as rock collapsed behind me I'd be hemmed in, in the deep dark. Maybe someone would eventually uncover the alt far in the future and wonder why someone would waste such an epic amount of AP.
Bridge Builder Extraordinaire: I'd save up a lot of AP (10k?) before setting off, building a bridge that spans the world. Perhaps halfway between Oz and the Kingdom I'd build a bridge across the equator, just for the hell of it.
Mass Miner: I'd purchase vast quantities of mining permits and collect enough wood to put Amazon clear cutters to shame. Then I'd go on a blitz, ensuring that as many public mines as possible were established.
Good Samaritan: Using this plan I'd use my epic amounts of AP to spread newb love. Perhaps one lucky newbie (Barons and below) every month will receive a goody bag containing lots of gold, power crystals, level 2 swords, baned phasers, potions and tanks.

Anyone have any suggestions or comments? --Ade 22:01, 23 January 2008 (GMT)

Massive AP surpluses are awesome, I've racked up 183 Catanas killing Ninjas with a pirate hat I nicked off out Holiday Island, and I still have 50,000 AP to burn. I'm totally behind the guildspace explorer thing. Make sure you have a truly awesome name on that disguise kit.--Hamelin 03:35, 24 January 2008 (GMT)
Oooh. I like the Guildspace Explorer concept, which sounds fun in a passive kinda way and might just produce enough in return to be self-sustaining, but the Bridge Builder and Good Samaritan just seem so awesome... I can't decide among the three, myself. S. Mackie 03:36, 24 January 2008 (GMT)
My vote is for a Mass Miner/Good Samaritan combo. I would vote for Guildspace Explorer, but you already gave the surprise away! If you go ahead and do it anyway, disguise him as something like "XXX the Living Time Capsule" where XXX is Joe, Bob, Ernie, or something like that. :) -Scrumbucket 03:56, 24 January 2008 (GMT)
Here's another idea:
Questsmith: Using this I'd buy a number of really neat things to aid me in the project. I'd then go about creating a ridiculously difficult quest involving puzzles, word games, spell cast and mighty combat. The end result would be a cache filled with treasures beyond imagination. Maybe, if I was motivated enough there could be a quest for each career type. A huge arsenal of weapons, armor and potions for Dukes, delicious cakes, spells, magic-good and letters for mages and a metric ton of leather and metals for blacksmiths. --Ade 15:55, 24 January 2008 (GMT)
Sadly, while I love the idea, the magic-goods couldn't be part of the deal. They can't be traded, so I doubt they could be bagged. Although actually, if they can be bagged, that would prove me wrong handily. S. Mackie 16:28, 24 January 2008 (GMT)
Grace Brothers: If I was you I'd collect as much stock as possible, purchase all available stall permits, and acquire a stack of new alts; Mrs Betty Slocombe, Miss Shirley Brahms, Mr Wilberforce Clayborne Humphries, Mr Dick Lucas, Captain Stephen Peacock and Mr Cuthbert Rumbold. Then all of you would head over to the Mall and take it over.
(Everyone thinks of how they are going to provide sleeping accommodations in the store.)
Rumbold: Camping.
Humphries: I beg your pardon?
Rumbold: Camping! Were you never in the Scouts, Mr. Humphries?
Humphries: Well, not officially. 

Ground floor perfumery, stationery and leather goods, wigs and haberdashery, kitchenware and food...Going up. Herbacious 21:34, 26 January 2008 (GMT)

Another idea: finish Twinkle the Twink's plan, using as little of Twinkle's AP as possible. Unfortunately, due to the reduced supply of summon stones, this may be a bit tricky. PotatoEngineer 02:55, 27 January 2008 (GMT)

My Hat is Off (and not because it was stolen)

My hat is off to whoever wrote "The Cat in the Hat" across the Arena in Gladiators. That is my kind of public art! You, unknown Sir (Duke, Armourer, Shaman, etc.), are a genius. Please let your name be known so I can shower you with praise! -Scrumbucket 06:10, 20 January 2008 (GMT)

First Typed Horsie

For those that haven't seen Naath's update on the pedigree page - Lightening Fury (Winged Horsie) and Morvarc'h (War Horsie) had a son, Bill (owned by Naath), who has grown up into a Sea Horsie. This means that Lightening Fury is our first (almost) fully genotyped horsie in the game - Gender: XX, Colour: kk, Alignment: AW, CS: ? (The CS gene is irrelevant in any horsie except those that turn out to have two alleles of opposite alignment, which Lightening Fury doesn't. I doubt we'll ever type CS genes in cases like these unless wizards get a spell to do it.) How excitement! Rhapsodie 00:09, 19 January 2008 (GMT)

SHVEET! Will knowing LF's stats ease the genotyping of other horses she mates with? S. Mackie 00:26, 19 January 2008 (GMT)
Yes, yes it will. (Oh, and the CS ought be possible with infinite data I think; but I doubt we'll ever have enough). --naath 15:42, 19 January 2008 (GMT)

L4 Armourer

Now that's intriguing. :-D I was just having a peek at the lovely Department of Pointless Statistics, idly wondering if it allowed for non-standard alignments (it doesn't, but then presumably it works off birth alignment rather than current alignment). And then what should I see on the Rank graph but "L4 Armourer". I don't remember that being there before. Do correct me if I've just got a poor memory. -Stelio 09:13, 15 January 2008 (GMT)

Addendum: I see that Andrewsi spotting this back in October. -Stelio 09:19, 15 January 2008 (GMT)

Moan, Groan

What's the most annoying/expensive thing you've lost to tribbles? I thought losing a Rodden Berry two steps after disemarking from the Space Elevator was bad (especially when I found I needed it for the Toad Totem!), but today, I lost a Fruit Cake! -Scrumbucket 08:50, 9 January 2008 (GMT)

Sir, you need a bag (from the guy who just spent 250AP walking back and forth from the great hall to a field trying to bring 3 sprigs of mint to Ignaz. The tribbles are smart. They always go first for what you want to keep most.)density 14:55, 9 January 2008 (GMT)
The sad thing is, I have one. Most of the time I'm pretty good about keeping all my tasty things tucked away, but I sometimes forget. This time, I just thought I'd be safe with only 2 tribbles out. I didn't pay attention as they ate a goat's milk and decaf coffee, and next thing you know... -Scrumbucket 21:06, 9 January 2008 (GMT)
I once lost a Dundee cake to the little buggers. This is a useful GM script if you don't want to lose any more stuff to tribbles. Kaos Dragon 22:11, 9 January 2008 (GMT)
What does it do? It doesn't have a description on the Development page, where I found most of the other GM goodies I can no longer play without. -Scrumbucket 00:48, 10 January 2008 (GMT)
My very last Potion of Healing. --Prthivi 03:20, 10 January 2008 (GMT)
It gives you a subtle reminder if you're walking around with tribbles in your inventory. Try it out. --Dragon 06:23, 10 January 2008 (GMT)
that's nifty.
A HUMAN LIVER. I win. Hands down, man. --Ade 03:38, 24 January 2008 (GMT)

Something's not right here

Um...So I was coming back from Bleak Island and I accidentally disembarked my boat in the middle of the ocean. I didn't have a "Board" buton, so I talismaned to Atlantish and put my boat back in the bottle. Subsequently, everything is now flippy-flopped vertically. North is South, South is North and I'm feeling queasy. Is it seaksickness? I swear I wasn't hit at ALL by mirror monsters on Bleak. What happened to me? --Fluegenheim 20:56, 8 January 2008 (GMT)

Thanks for the mirror, Shaman at the party! --Fluegenheim

Great Horsie Genome Project - Alignment Mapping

We seem to have a working model for horsie genetics with regard to colour, and a lot of individual horsies have their colour genes mapped. But alignment genetics are going to be a bit harder to map for any one horsie if my genetic model is correct - partly because in some genetic combinations, whether your horsie is one type or another is determined by a fourth gene (thanks darksatanic for telling me that one - I would've gone on a wild goose chase otherwise!). So far, of all of the grown up first generation offspring, I've only been able to eliminate one gene option from two of the dams, Knight Mare and Lightning Fury.

So far it seems that the best way to narrow down your own horsie's possible genotype is to breed frequently and often with horsies of either the weaker or opposite alignment (ideally, pick one particular horsie and breed your horsie with them several times to track any variations). This does mean that, for all those lovely female Horsies out there, there are only two studs available - Vala and Wantryk! If those with unidentified Sea Horsies could refer them to an "expert" to check their gender (especially if you're willing to use them as a stud), that'd be helpful! -- Rhapsodie 22:12, 4 January 2008 (GMT)

Ah. So Mercer might have been helpful in this part of the process, but now will not be a very useful sire for scientific purposes? S. Mackie 22:26, 4 January 2008 (GMT)
Not at all. You could make him available to the female War Horsies to help them narrow down their second alignment (if a War Horsie/Horsie combo has a Horsie offspring that means the War Horsie can't have the FF gene), or breed him with a Winged Horsie to do the same thing for Mercer. Or mate him with a Sea Horsie and keep an eye out either a War Horsie or Winged Horsie! All of this is more about typing individual horsies. Rhapsodie 23:06, 4 January 2008 (GMT)
I should add - given that it's possible for a male horsie to breed more often than any female, males should be easier to type - and once one male is typed, we have a better shot at typing all of the females he's mated with, and his offspring. So I encourage all male horsies to sleep around as much as possible! Rhapsodie 00:49, 5 January 2008 (GMT)
On that note, Kieselguhr, an un-sexed Sea Horsie, is looking to mate. Inquire at the Park Bench. Misosumo 02:59, 5 January 2008 (GMT)
I saw that Kieselguhr is, in fact, a boy. Hooray! :) Rhapsodie 06:05, 8 January 2008 (GMT)

erm... since Osk had her miscarriage, she's recovered, and is ready to mate again. She's a War Horsie, Pinto. And will be at the pentacle later today, if some eager horsie wants to have a go with her. density 14:42, 8 January 2008 (GMT)

Miscarriage?! Rhapsodie 05:57, 9 January 2008 (GMT)

Ordering Pwnies

For those that haven't seen, there's a spot on the discussion page for pwny Pedigree that contains a list for ordering a pwny. Given how many people want to breed their horsies, we want to maximise the number of homes available! Rhapsodie 00:31, 6 January 2008 (GMT)

Hey Spacehole!

This means you. Yes, you. You know who you are. (I don't, but that's not important).

I just blew roughly 600 AP in Space cleaning up your mess, when actually I went up there to get some Power Crystals. Please do yourself and the other players a favour and read and adhere to these guidelines from now on:

Case A: You're farming for metals
  • Metals drop from asteroids so you'll want to get as many single asteroids possible.
  • Clean up everything around the Really Large Asteroid you found, smash it into as many pieces as possible, clean up, smash...
Case B: You're there for the power crystals only
  • Find a Really Large Asteroid. You'll want to get as few single asteroids as possible to reduce AP.
  • Open a Can of Worms, which will keep the asteroids from exploding all over the place
  • Hammer at the asteroid watching it getting smaller and smaller and rejoice over the Power Crystal you gain.
  • Then CLEAN UP! Apparently some people forget this one. A Can of Worms creates at most 11 Earth Worms. Walk around and kill them all (which will cost you 19 AP only). Using Fire Crackers will even save you some mouse clicks, if that's what keeps you from cleaning up.
  • Kill Really Large Asteroids randomly until you get the Power Crystal and leave the mess flying around for others.
  • Run around killing all you see, but trace back your path to make sure you didn't forget any of worms or asteroids. Asteroids can explode outside your range of view. Be sure to destroy those as well.
  • Each road square that is blocked with a (then useless) Asteroid will keep Really Large Asteroids and other useful monsters from spawning. That means less power crystals, less space invaders for all of us.

Sorry for ranting, but I hope everybody sees the purpose. Flt 10:11, 31 December 2007 (GMT)

Just adding my agreement since I'm in Space at the moment (and don't want to be negatively labelled due to someone else's bad manners). I've been clearing up left over Asteroids and Earth Worms whenever I see them. If there are any Asteroids left by me, it's because I've run out of AP and am standing very close to them waiting to explode them when I can. -Stelio 12:35, 31 December 2007 (GMT)
Shall I play the kingdoms smallest violin for you? --Prthivi 15:47, 31 December 2007 (GMT)
Aw, but then Spacer will feel like you're two-timing him. :-D -Stelio 18:23, 31 December 2007 (GMT)
this is like littering and smoking - it's so selfish and tacky YFM but u can't stop them!
Well, this reminder didn't do much. I'm in space right now, and it's filled with worms, and parts of asteroids: I'm doing the clean up, but it seems hopeless--Che-T۞ 15:38, 16 February 2008 (GMT)

Next month's party

For the 'King/Great Lords (since there's no obvious place to make this request):

The Party page mentions that exotic party locations may be considered on a case-by-case basis. I'm throwing a party at the end of January, and was wondering if there was any chance it could be held someplace odd but not terribly useful (like Barbelith, the Arena, or Limbo). Figure the "not terribly useful" aspect will make it unlikely to be exploited. -- Thog 02:05, 29 December 2007 (GMT)

For Use in the Future

Not addressing anybody at this time, just keeping it around for future reference.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2355019 S. Mackie 22:01, 25 December 2007 (GMT)

what if it's a woman? YFM
Well, then http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2362125 --Solune 17:43, 30 December 2007 (GMT)


Who stole my Gorgan?? I was on the verge of killing it, and four days went by in no time at all.--Qazxcv 15:32, 23 December 2007 (GMT)

It was Perseus! --Prthivi 00:18, 24 December 2007 (GMT)

No Smoking

got meself a baby hippy and desided to share a fag with it but no:

"No smoking in enclosed spaces. Ain't it a bitch?"

hillarius:) So i'm gonna lead the hippy to floor number two, smoking in the boys room, I tell you I'm smoking in the boys room, Harvey I am fooling around with your rules, cause everybody knows that smoking ain't allowed in farms Mr.Monk 02:39, 23 December 2007 (GMT)

Christmas Wish

My daughter, Tiltowaitina, wants a pwny for Christmas. Come help a poor, doting father out. --Tiltowait 16:49, 13 December 2007 (GMT)

Pwny offered by Kressida - 05:00, 15 December 2007 (GMT)


I predict that the next 4 fashions will be:

Clobber-Goth (this week's)

Gonzometro 05:15, 8 December 2007 (GMT)

Previous fashion statements can be found at Fashion History (current to Aug 18, 2007) and the history log of Template:Fashion.

Completed code moved to Talk:Fashion.

Well, I have been wearing Kinky-Punk for a day now with no bonus. Kressida -10:58, 16 December 2007 (GMT)
Personally, I'm wearing a Field Glasses, a Pair of Firefly Trainers, as many Bronze Greaves and Vambraces as I can, a codpiece, a leather gorget, a Suit of Glowing Mail on Sunday (later to be a Bronze Scale Armour), a Bascinet and Gauntlets. It appeared I wouldn't be able to get the cutting-edge fashion without wearing armor, so I went all the way. (Except my one Army Boot, which would have outcompeted the fashion and also would have occupied an important space for the purpose.) S. Mackie 18:19, 16 December 2007 (GMT)
That sure didn't last too long. In the event that the RNG was simply reset, fashion should be predictable again within a few months. I think it more likely that the code was fixed, as the nature of fashion is to be unpredictable. I want apologize to everyone who got their hopes up (including myself). It was fun while it lasted. Gonzometro 19:34, 16 December 2007 (GMT)
The algorithm was changed -- otherwise I'd never have posted the code for it... It's a little less linear now, I hope, so it should be harder to predict. Sorry to ruin all your work, Gonzometro, but actually it's been on the list of things to do for a while. Darksatanic 20:08, 16 December 2007 (GMT)
Although you can czech your work by looking at Didbert's, which I've been using for months. I'd've told more people, but I knew once word got out, they'd change the algorithm... S. Mackie 20:15, 16 December 2007 (GMT)

Ignore This Space


This is NOT the official meeting place of the Cities Cabal. Please Move Along.

Finally! Definitive proof that there is no Cabal. Gonzometro 22:01, 7 December 2007 (GMT)

You may also want to check the history of the Cabal page... --Bubba_the_Shy 12:26, 8 December 2007 (GMT)

The Avatar's taking a break!

With his friends!


--Hamelin 22:53, 6 December 2007 (GMT)

Is this some far out publicity stunt? --Bubba_the_Shy 12:40, 11 December 2007 (GMT)

Pass the Bag: Revisited

What ever happened with the bag from Pass-the-Bag_2007? I can see it in Norma's inventory. I'll give Norma the benefit of the doubt and assume she was unaware of having possession of said bag. Norma, if you're reading this, either return the bag to Kressida, or put the bag back in circulation; we're all interested in the results. Gonzometro 03:14, 6 December 2007 (GMT)

Good point, I had given it up for hopelessly lost. I did send a palantir to Norma, but perhaps he/she has not checked lately. I would dearly love to get it back. Kressida 08:21, 14 December 2007 (GMT)
Got the bag back today! contents upon its return are listed here. I might keep a few items, but i'll stay at the park bench and randomally give out bits and pieces for Christmas. Kressida -21:59, 20 December 2007 (GMT)

On Killing Plankton

Dramatis Personae:
Player a Bell-Ringer for the Salvation Army
Plankton a marine Life-Form

Act 1, Scene 1:
[Ocean, Mid-November]
Enter Player and Plankton

Play. Approaching here, that keeps the World atilt,
some plankton comes. And with unselfish care,
my purpose to extort upon his guilt
some coin, I conjure thus a simple air.

Plankton approaches. Player rings Bell

Plank. Why dost this trenchant bruit bruise the ears
of autumn, and our generosity
assault? Still yet a fortnight waits ere nears
the 'holy' Advent of Nativity.

Plankton ignores Player.

Play. My sacred duties shall not unfill'd be
for want of ringing me this plaintive bell.
My arm now thrice-fold cries the woes of He
who with God's love of man to death once fell.

[Rings Bell louder. Plankton still ignores Player]
Bell breaks.

[Aside.] Without my moral compass to decree
One's thoughts, One's given to decide what's Right
Or Wrong! and may of chance fall far from Thee.
They fight. Plankton dies.
[Aloud.] Thus justly I have sav'd him from that plight.
How better did my violence serve than voice
to give me strength to free his life from choice.



You attack the Plankton.
You play the Hand Bell.
The Plankton doesn't seem impressed.
Your Hand Bell has worn out.
You lose a Hand Bell.
You slay the Plankton.
Now using Fists.

Gonzometro 09:58, 15 November 2007 (GMT)

This is very beautiful. Thank you. Vashka 12:48, 15 November 2007 (GMT)
I wonder what it would take to make this a visual piece?
Oh, that breaking bell would either take sound-sweetening and iffy prop work, or be too difficult to bother with.
Suffice to say, this is really, really awesome. :) Like, 2nd Ed. backstab with a ballista awesome. S. Mackie 17:51, 15 November 2007 (GMT)
Addendum: Y'know, I just read this again? Still awesome. It needs preserved for eternity. S. Mackie 16:19, 8 December 2007 (GMT)
Thank you. I added it to the Poetry Club page and my user page. Gonzometro 20:57, 8 December 2007 (GMT)

Found T-shirt

It might not be a big deal but I found a 'T-Shirt (Solune's Solstice Sabat)' on an Air aligned Thief in the the Thieves Forest. If whoever lost the shirt wants it back, leave me a message on my talk page or send me a PAYG in-game. adnala 02:32, 13 November 2007 (GMT)

Could it be that he went to the party?  ;) Actually, I lost a 'T-Shirt (Sert's Private Party)' to an Air-aligned Thief in the Thieve's Forest this past Saturday (as well as a Cod Piece, but we needn't talk about that). If that's the one you found, feel free to keep it. -- Sertularian 04:08, 13 November 2007 (GMT)

Looking for a Stud

My Knight Mare has produced her first foal Hastur and I am eager to continue with the great horsie pedigree research project. To this end I am looking for a Stud to sire another foal. In the interests of variety, a Pinto, Chesnut or Black Horsie would be good. I am willing to take offers on where to home the foal afterwards too. PAYG me or put it on my user page. Kressida -06:10, 12 November 2007 (GMT)

Ditto, though I am specifically looking for a male pinto because all of the other colours have been mated with black by now. That probably means Shergar (selene) unless there are other male pintos that aren't in the list! Rhapsodie 09:14, 13 November 2007 (GMT)
What about Crazy Horse, Shadowfax, and Rockin' Horsie? They're all white rather than black. S. Mackie 17:09, 13 November 2007 (GMT)
Crazy Horse is available for breeding any time you want him to. He's a gray horsie. Flt 17:21, 13 November 2007 (GMT)
Both Billomina and Knight Mare have already been mated with a grey horsie (the same one, in fact). Though I hear Crazy Horse is a bit of a stud! ;) Rhapsodie 20:35, 13 November 2007 (GMT)

Pwny looking for a home

My Billomina is due any day now to give birth to her first pwny, and the person I gave dibs on it politely declined. So I am looking for a new owner who will care for it and put the details (sex, type) up on the pedigree page as they become available. As far as price goes, I am trying to get the bits of gold together to make three solid gold fiddles (I have the runes) so either some of those or boring old cash would be nice! Papers for the pwny will be available. :) Rhapsodie 22:53, 9 November 2007 (GMT)

I would love to take the pwny off your hands and raise it for genotyping purposes. How much are pwnies going for nowadays? --yehman 01:55, 10 November 2007 (GMT)
No idea! I will send you a PAYG - interestingly, my black horsie and Phw's white horsie gave birth to a brown and white pinto (temporarily named Cupcake). So it might be a good choice of research material - you can explain to me how that happened when you're done! :) Rhapsodie 05:44, 11 November 2007 (GMT)
PAYG responded. And yes, it does seem to go against the preliminary guesses so far. A valuable birth indeed. --yehman 06:42, 11 November 2007 (GMT)

Emissaries are nails

Spotted at 18E 69/70N, an Emissary calmly taking the time of day in burning hot lava. Is there nothing that can perturb these beings of extraordinary knowledge? Truly they are hardcore. -Stelio 18:57, 6 November 2007 (GMT)

Has Mining In The Mines Been Nerfed?

I can't find the table that used to give the percentages to find various ores in the SE Mines. I have been digging and digging and have found only stones. Lots of stone. Too many freaking stones. Trying to find some misril ore, but I can't find anything but stones. Previously I would often find tribbles, and assorted metal ores. Not now though. Have I offended the RNG God or has the probability table been tweaked? --TheRealKilgore 01:09, 1 November 2007 (GMT)

i am right now on the mines, and found minerals as always --ancev
Thanks, I guess I need to find something to sacrifice to that fickle RNG God. I have spent around around 350 ap (at a mine cost of 7ap) and nothing but stones. Just bad luck.
If you're in an area where many people have been, you won't find much, try looking in the corners--Solune 09:48, 1 November 2007 (GMT)
Note that the guild level isn't the same as the mines. Guildspace has far more stones than the mines. Darksatanic 11:11, 1 November 2007 (GMT)
Speaking of which, GPS appears to have been removed from the mines. Is there any good way to tell the difference between the mines and guildspace? Big Brother could use a hand. PotatoEngineer 21:47, 1 November 2007 (GMT)

More Horsie Data Needed

There has to be more than 17 horses in cities! 17 is too few a number to unlock the mysteries of genetics. Please contribute what information on your horses is available (color, alignment, sex (if known).) Data on pwny's is also acceptable.

There's probably quite a few people with them who don't check the wiki that often, maybe someone should cast one of those MOTD spells about it?--Hamelin 17:04, 26 October 2007 (BST)
I also heard DS mention on IRC that there are a whole load of dead pwnies floating about. --Ade 20:36, 27 October 2007 (BST)
Not literally floating, of course. That would be insanitary. Not to mention more than a little icky and somewhat creepy. Darksatanic 21:18, 27 October 2007 (BST)
If anyone has a *dead* pwny, stop by the pentacle. (Corpse) donations welcome! If you want it reanimated for yourself, it'll cost you. Gonzometro 21:09, 27 October 2007 (BST)
I've got a dead pinto sea horsie (sex unknown). Is it worth resurrecting for the genetic study? (There's already a pinto sea horsie on the Pedigree page.) Oh, and Darksatanic? This dead horsie does float. (Only in place--no bugs to worry about here. No sirree!) -Scrumbucket 03:23, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
It is very worth resurrecting if it turns out to be female.--Hamelin 05:31, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
With the (hopefully temporary) scarcity of Horsie data, even adding dead Horsies to the roster will help; with enough data, statistics alone should answer what kind of inheritance schemes we're dealing with. And taking a complete census would certainly be easier than waiting through numerous month-long gestation periods. As far as resurrection, I'm sure there are people who would like to get their hands on a Horsie, even if it was until recently dead. Then there's always the scientific query: can a reanimated Horsie still get busy? Gonzometro 07:04, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
...OK, I'm confused. How can you learn about inheritance from Horsies with no parents? Random4518 07:40, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
Reanimated horsies can indeed get busy. Marvin had two unfortunate 'starving to death' episodes and is a proud (if somewhat confused) Mother of Pumpkin Jennyann 11:35, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
By making assumptions that aren't correct. Thus Spake Darksatanic: "Also note that the original population was created with approximately equal numbers of each type of horsie (coats, genders, and alignments), but that the "steady state" population isn't equal for coats -- so any statistical approach should take that into account." So stats of "hatched" pwnys won't yield much meaningful relationships. Gonzometro 17:55, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
OK, I'll probably get Spot resurrected on the 50% chance that as a female, she'll be helpful to the study. I'm curious though: if Spot is male, will he still be useful? Now I just need to decide whether to pay for a resurrection and keep, or just donate the body. What are the going rates for resurrections these days? (I can supply a copy of the spell.) -Scrumbucket 19:11, 28 October 2007 (GMT)
If you're worried about being able to keep the horsie alive and you won't really miss it, you should probably donate the corpse to someone who can take care of it.--Hamelin 17:14, 29 October 2007 (GMT)
I got into the whole horsie game late, so my Pwny (UP) is still a Pwny. I was waiting till he/she matured to add him/her to the page. You want me to add him/her now?density 23:30, 29 October 2007 (GMT)
I was initially hoping that the existing pwny population would reveal the underlying genetics from a statistical approach. However, it turns out that the ratio of 'hatched' pwnys' phenotypes does not reflect what one would expect from a population in equilibrium. So, it doesn't really matter if you do. It will be difficult to get any information from pwnys until they produce offspring, & then we'll probably have to document a few generations after that to determine all the nuances in the code. The Pwny Genome Project still has a long way to go. . . On the other hand, it might be nice for breeders to know what will be on the market in the future, but since horse-keepers haven't been told about the birds and the bees, planning future nuptials may be a problem. Gonzometro 06:11, 30 October 2007 (GMT)

Earth worm longevity

So, I hear that space is getting filled up with earth worms again, by inconsiderate, short-sighted power crystal farmers. Would the Great Lords be open to a suggestion that earth worms should die out quickly if they are not on the earth? They might have a lifespan of, say, a few hours (going to "Sick", then "Dying", then finally dead and gone, every hour they're on non-earth terrain).

If I understand the game's internals correctly, these death events would only trigger when a player is moving nearby anyway -- but that's still better than the current situation. --Greycat 17:19, 24 October 2007 (BST)

If we want those crystal farmers to learn anything, space-earthworms should be immortal and have 1000HP each. Gonzometro 21:14, 25 October 2007 (BST)
Actually, if they clean up their mess i don't see why people wouldn't use worms to catch cristals. It's still better than leaving asteroid debris all around the place. What people should really get is a nunchuck training--Solune 22:03, 25 October 2007 (BST)

I'd prefer it if earthworms cannot be used in space at all. Having been there for 2 weeks with Herakkis now, I can see how exasperating it is. I don't see why people should have to resort to earthworms just because they're too lazy to hunt down all the asteroid debris. And I disagree with Solune - I definitely prefer asteroid debris to earth worms. Aren't they the reason for visiting space to being with? If we can't curtail the worm population, we won't have as many asteroids. Either disable opening cans of earth worms in space, or have an undesirable affect like Botulinum poisoning accompany it. :) --Corellis 15:39, 27 Oct (+7 GMT)

How is asteroid debris preferable to worms? Presumably people are after power crystals, since there are much more effective and accessible ways to get metal. So people would just break apart an asteroid until they got a power crystal, then leave the rest of the (relatively useless) debris alone. Earth worms are easier to kill, and at least you know they're useless. (Of course, this still doesn't excuse not cleaning up after oneself, I'm just arguing that banning worms wouldn't improve things.) Perhaps a "Cans of Worms Opened" score table which we can compare against the Earth Worm kill list to name and shame? --Dragon 17:37, 27 October 2007 (BST)
That's a better idea, I'm always for a good shaming. Besides, last time I went to space, there where so many very large asteroids that I couldn't get them all. So the lack of power cristals is not always obvious. Mind you, that was before the teleporting kits--Solune 23:27, 27 October 2007 (BST)
Just as a side note, the worm-opening count should probably halve each month, along with the worm-kills count, or it'll be misleading after a while. PotatoEngineer 23:48, 27 October 2007 (BST)
I've gained most of my power crystals from debris, for my part. S. Mackie 19:19, 28 October 2007 (GMT)


Circumstances beyond my control delayed me by a good few hours on the way home. I now have two more dead pets. *sigh* The Goldfish Egg, I'll just have to buy again (evil Goldfish are no good for getting a Pet Licence) but I mourn my Pwny. Would any Shaman/Wizard care to take a commission for a Miracle Pill? :-C -Stelio 19:33, 22 October 2007 (BST)

Stop by the pentacle in Immemorial Park, I'll hook you up. On a related note, does anyone know if it still takes 2 pills to revive a pet? Gonzometro 19:56, 22 October 2007 (BST)
I'll be there shortly. :-) What would you like in return? I have 1000AP I'm not afraid to use and stuff. Oh, and it is only 1 Miracle Pill (confirmed by Darksatanic here. -Stelio 20:25, 22 October 2007 (BST)

Baskets of Plums

omg i just planted 13 magic beans. AND GOT 13 BASKETS OF PLUMS!! Zoological 02:06, 21 October 2007 (BST)

In a row? That is exceedingly unlikely!--Hamelin 02:10, 21 October 2007 (BST)
I planted 10 beans and got 29 baskets of plums. Even so, I planted at least 70 more and got 113 bunches of Grapes, so you're doing very well. S. Mackie 08:49, 21 October 2007 (BST)
in a row (no feild planting). in a valley. HOW DID I DOO THAT!! potions of accuracy, here i come. XD Zoological 09:19, 21 October 2007 (BST)
Thanks for reporting this bug. All fixed now. :) Darksatanic 11:06, 21 October 2007 (BST)
DAMNIT!!! Zoological 23:42, 21 October 2007 (BST)
wow, that's pretty cool! I've been trying to grow plums for a while. I keep ending up with power crystals. Sigh. It's like being given the goose that lays golden eggs when you're just hungry. You can't eat a golden egg. ;-/ density 00:07, 22 October 2007 (BST)
Or at the least, you don't want to break it. Wow. That's actually the reason I started farming proper, rather than just planting beans; chance of crystals. S. Mackie 03:34, 22 October 2007 (BST)

Advertisement Duration

I'm noticing the advertisement side-bar is getting a little crowded; should there be a limit on how long ads remain there? I'm suggesting anything over a week old be removed but, if it's still valid, the original advertiser can re-post the request. Thoughts? Snare 15:58, 13 October 2007 (BST)

Speaking of advertisements, the ingame message on those Teleporters is starting to wear out, no? --Bubba_the_Shy 20:23, 13 October 2007 (BST)
The MOTD was inaccurate for a bit, as the Oz Teleport was the one that taught us that teleporting kills the lifespan of the teleporters, but the Oz Teleport is back up again, so the message is once again accurate. PotatoEngineer 04:56, 16 October 2007 (BST)
Well it's still quite annoying.--Bubba_the_Shy 00:11, 18 October 2007 (BST)

Harvesting Power Crystals Using Harvest Song

I'm wanting to grow some plums to make my 66 potions of accuracy. So, I changed my alignment over to Air, and am planting fields. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Power Crystals. No plums yet. Darn it.

You sing of the rain, sun, and soil.
A brief shower of rain falls on your field, then the moon and stars shine clearly.
You see a shooting star fall!

I think I'll be able to afford a few baskets of plums with this harvest. (oh, I planted around 8:30 game time, I think)density 02:23, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Nice. That's quite a boon for the song, I bet the odds are astronomically low on that.--Hamelin 06:11, 1 October 2007 (BST)
Just walked by your field and saw your lovely crop of 10 Power Crystals. No, I won't broom you off to steal them. I have a bit more class than that. --Greycat 17:10, 1 October 2007 (BST)
Let 5 - 10 of us jam out the harvest song on the same field. Maybe we can summon an asteroid strike to obliterate a city. Heh. --Ade 18:39, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Golden Condor!!! Golden pile of xxxx more like!!!

Finally hitch a ride with the golden condor, might aswell have spent my ap turning feathers into arrows as there is some tool onboard or possibly even a number of tools who keep negating any direction I want to fly in. These killjoys who obviously want to keep the condor as their own private plaything have it parked at the end of the hunters trail. Please jump on board and reclaim the bird for the masses. (1.57am monday morning)

Are you using IE? I had the same problem and it was browser related. Using Firefox there was no issues. I even had it move when I tried to attack a monster. Phw 02:00, 1 October 2007 (BST)
No it moves just fine, straight away it gets flown straight back into the corner. It is as if it's being kept there to pick someone up
I know someone keeps a mule at the GC control room. iirc the mule is "Mr. T". Maybe they are responsible. Hbookbinder
It should not be allowed whats the point of the condor if it is going to be monopolised
Most of the "enforcement" in Cities is player-based. If somebody's really disrupting the use of the GC, Broom them off of it. Otherwise, be polite, ask in-game if anyone else is using the GC, and wait several minutes for a response before you go charging off of it somewhere else. It's possible that you were running off with the GC when somebody was using it, and another player on the GC brought it back so the guy who's off the GC could hop on. (also, please sign your posts with ~~~~) PotatoEngineer 03:19, 1 October 2007 (BST)
I would like to apologise to everyone, especially the aforementioned tools, the problem is something else. My alt fishface cant even walk off the bird now and appears to be trapped between two squares. The hunters lodge and the square next to itKetchup 04:19, 1 October 2007 (BST)
The only things that are between squares are monsters! He's a monster! Kill him! To the hunter's trail! Kill the monster! Kill the ketchup monster!

Lost corpse!

Yesterday, Riff Raff accidentally... umm... how to put this... became slightly less than alive for a bit, on the path through the Great Plain with all the snakes on it. The offending creature was east of the trail, earth aligned. Since then, someone's been through and killed it, and got a corpse with half my stuff in it. If you did for an earth-aligned snake in the last 24 hours, could you please check your inventory for a Corpse of Riff Raff and drop me a line (palantir to Riff Raff, or put a message on the wiki). I'm concerned about the health of my goldfish. Thanks. Darksatanic 11:01, 30 September 2007 (BST)

You chances of getting your body back are not good. I'm still missing mine.--Qazxcv (Who still missing his body) 21:58, 30 September 2007 (BST)

Nerd moment

Today I checked my shop, and saw that I had exactly 1337000 GP. I thought, "Damn stright!" followed almost immediately by, "man, I've got to spend less time online..." Billz8

I get the l33t reference, but I feel as if I'm missing half the joke. S. Mackie 03:30, 28 September 2007 (BST)
You think that's bad? Check out what I got my XP to a while ago. Kaos Dragon 01:26, 29 September 2007 (BST)

On the fragility of Guild Teleporters

The recent party in Oz, along with the teleporter in the Order of the Wyrm, has swiftly shown that each teleport costs 12 hours of maintenance; a party's worth of teleportation will quickly destroy any teleporter. Now, teleporters are an excellent resource, but abuse of them will simply cause each guild to lock their teleporters, and this resource will be limited to those few people who are in the right guilds.

I'd like to see teleporters stay open. One solution, using the guild terrains we have available, would be to post a Guild Donation Alt on the guild's trading post, to accept gifts of power crystals, cash, wood, and stones to keep the teleporters running. The question is: would this work? Remember, there are a number of players who are a) too broke, b) too apathetic, and/or c) too antisocial to pay into guild teleporters. Would donations, along with the guild's money supply (if any), be enough to consistently keep the teleporters running? PotatoEngineer 07:24, 26 September 2007 (BST)

But wouldn't that be muling? You would create a character to perform tasks that you wouldn't be willing to do yourself, i.e. to stand on a trading post 24x7 and accept gifts for the guild. I would much rather prefer that the guild donation box from the suggestions page was coded. --TerrorRemedy 07:35, 26 September 2007 (BST)
Yes, a guild donation box would be nice---but the GLs develop things at their own pace, at their own priorities, and at their own discretion. Not all suggestions become real items, and not all real items come as a result of suggestions. And yes, it's technically muling, but right now, it's the best way to handle donations. (it could be done in other ways, but let's face it---many, many players neither read the wiki nor use IRC, and talking in-game isn't guaranteed to work by any stretch, either.) On the not-exactly-muling argument, the "mule" here isn't expending AP to do things---or rather, not much AP---and it would be trivial to give the mule 5% or 10% of the proceeds, if you're particularly picky about that. PotatoEngineer 07:54, 26 September 2007 (BST)
I'm not that picky about using a Guild Alt. I'm a Stonecutter and we are facing the same problems as you are. I would like to get a 'green light' from the powers that be for the use of Guild Alts before I'd start to use one, thats all. It would suck to get your Guild Alt deleted for muling (especially if it at the time held say 20 Power Chrystals).--TerrorRemedy 12:25, 26 September 2007 (BST)
No one has deleted my Guild Alt, but then she's an aspiring starlet only working as a stunt_double until she gets her big break. Schnorrer 17:42, 26 September 2007 (BST)
There is a possibility to make a stall with buy price of 0. I just dont know if it is possible to make it close enough to your guild. Maybe an office floor in the mall?--Lastaiaiai 12:10, 26 September 2007 (BST)
There is also the problem that a non guild member has no way of seeing if the teleporter is going to break soon. I checked the teleporter to the interior next to the broken one, and it did not give me a teleports or maintenance time left information. i would suggest locking the teleporter after only two (or x) days before breaking are left, to give the guild time to maintain it before it finally breaks. --Schwarz 12:32, 26 September 2007 (BST)
The problem is : you can't unlock something once it's locked--Solune 12:42, 26 September 2007 (BST)
You can see if the teleport is collapsing soon. Three (?) days before breaking down completely it turns into a Teleport (collapsing). People should simply refrain from using collapsing teleports. After all you could lose an arm or another body part if it collapses while you're inside.
Also there's Earl AnvilSociety. He owned the HAS vault to prevent it from being closed (and losing everything inside). There was, however, no other contact/benefit for AnvilSociety from the HAS. He's not even an official member now. I'm not sure if more interaction between a guild alt and a guild wouldn't be considered muling. Flt 13:01, 26 September 2007 (BST)
I would argue that Guild Alts aren't mules if their role is limited and they perform a function that's a service to the public. AnvilSociety fits that model, in that his function benefits the HAS. Guild Alts that are limited to collecting tolls for teleport usage are benefitting everyone by providing a means whereby teleports can be kept open to the public, so they benefit everyone. It seems unlikely they'll be successful enough to be truly profitable to the Guild; I suspect they won't even break even. -- Sertularian 22:37, 26 September 2007 (BST)
I wouldn't mind at all if the guilds could set a fee for usage of the teleporters, a 500-1000 GP toll to use a teleporter to OZ isn't unfair at all, and I personally think it would cut down on frivolous use of the teleporters, the rest could be made up from donations. Also, while I'm thinking about it, do we really need a teleporter to brighthelm and hard knocks? They're not that far apart.--Hamelin 02:52, 27 September 2007 (BST)
The actual costs of each teleport are 1250gp each, and that's if you buy the power crystals from space using a pirate hat. (Each teleport is 1/14th of the weekly maintenance of the teleporter, which is 17,000gp at pirate hat prices per week.) Add in a small surcharge to cover the weekly maintenance and/or the costs of those people who can't/won't/don't pay, and 1500-2000gp per teleport is a fair price. PotatoEngineer 04:22, 27 September 2007 (BST)
This is actually why I was suggesting a Toll Gate. It lets each guild set up their teleporters as they see fit, along with requiring fees for other stuff (a limited access Store Room, fees to join a Guild, etc.) -- Thog 04:53, 27 September 2007 (BST)
Well, something needs to be done, it's good that a fairly massive goldsink has been introduced into the game, but we don't want it to take precedence over other cool stuff the guilds could be doing with their assets.--Hamelin 14:14, 27 September 2007 (BST)
Why not? As far as I'm concerned, public teleporters are the coolest things that a guild can do for the community. Granted, if there aren't enough payments/donations, then it's inevitable that all guilds will lock their teleporters to prevent all of the money from bleeding out. PotatoEngineer 22:29, 29 September 2007 (BST)
Well I say bring on the Toll Gates!! Yes. --Bubba_the_Shy 03:09, 30 September 2007 (BST)

King Elsewhere's fortress of solitude

I am currently about ten squares away the fortress, is it worth the visit, my dilemma is I have frostbite setting in and these ten squares are in the wrong direction. I was wondering if there is anything to do there, appearing on my places visited would be enough. Alternatively I could give someone a summon if they fancy taking a look themselves. I am currently in negative ap but i could do it in about 16 hours. When I'm next logged on.ketchup 05:06, 24 September 2007 (BST)

There's nothing to do there--you can't even get in. Get out of the cold and get yourself some warm clothing! --Dragon 05:15, 24 September 2007 (BST)
Three more eggs and I'm there brother!!ketchup 05:17, 24 September 2007 (BST)

Free Hate of Roc

There hasn't been any interest at the Lucky Smells Goldfish Kennels so I thought I'd chuck a note on here as well. Would anyone like a free Hate of Roc? It's mostly harmless (26 XP) so hits 20% of the time. It does 200 damage so will always kill Rocs whenever it hits. Anyone want it? I'm away on holiday from Monday, so otherwise it will just die which seems a shame. :-( -Stelio 13:41, 22 September 2007 (BST)

I'll take it, at least for a while, if nobody else will. I need some more Rocks. PAYG me or speak to me on IRC. -- Sertularian 16:58, 22 September 2007 (BST)
:-( Still no Sert. Maybe he didn't get my message on Sunday. Ho hum. Well I'm at the New Trading Post in Windy City. The first person to turn up and poke me gets a free Hate of Roc. I'll check on Tuesday morning (game time) and hand it over. It's free I tell you! -Stelio 23:25, 24 September 2007 (BST)
It is done! First prize to smudgepuss2. Consolation prize to Haldar. :-) -Stelio 10:16, 25 September 2007 (BST)

Regarding Guild Teleporters

Guilds should probably coordinate teleporter destinations. Given their expense, there's no sense in every guild making a teleporter to the same spot. So, if your guild is considering a publicly-accessible teleporter (or five), please let the other guilds know here. If you think your guild is better suited for a certain planned location than another (e.g. there was recently a discussion between the mages and the wyrms about a teleporter to the mountain trail in Oz), please follow up with that guild directly. (Also please note the location of your guild, so we know where the teleporters are from.) --Dragon 02:28, 20 September 2007 (BST)

Current teleporters are:

Planned teleporters include:

Path to the Goodyear Pimp

I've just opened up a path to the Goodyear Pimp from the western side of the Oz mountains. Darksatanic 23:19, 18 September 2007 (BST)

Hmm...a bad loser perhaps?

Envy can lead to very naughty things. Last night I was mysteriously, and bafflingly summoned to Barbelith by "King Elseware". Another Schnorrer turned up at the trading post and received gifts intended for me. As someone committed to the artistic lifestyle, money is neither here nor there, but I feel sorry for the people who thought they were giving in appreciation. Schnorrer 15:18, 16 September 2007 (BST)

Ah yes, after some extensive research, we've all come to the conclusion that Ancev is the culprit. Now if you would all like to put on your complimentary black velvet executioner's masks... More to follow!! --Bubba_the_Shy 18:52, 16 September 2007 (BST)
It is encouraged that like-minded citizens should go straight west of the party and do what comes naturally. Sympathy for Ancev is discouraged. PotatoEngineer 19:01, 16 September 2007 (BST)
I think forced exposure to "I am a cider drinker" by The Wurzels is pretty severe, but if you feel the need to take this further, by all means go ahead. Schnorrer 20:08, 16 September 2007 (BST)
Was the accent, right?!? My plan was almost perfect... Now, in review, seens i trusted too much in my heavy boots: and i should have been holding a weapon. But I had my lesson! I will be washing poop for weeks! The only gift i got before be discovered where 100,000gp from Merchant - that i will return to Schnorrer. Anyway, congratulations to the ones that got my valuables talismens, red pills e pockets watches. --ancev
Mmm, how I enjoyed wearing my criminal attire once more...
So, the plan was to donate all the stolen goods to Schnorrer to compensate for his loss. However, since Ancev is willing to return the cash and has responded with dignity, perhaps we should act gracefully and return his goods as well? --Bubba_the_Shy 02:53, 17 September 2007 (BST)
Continue with the plan, and donate the stuff to Schnorrer! I was thinking in donate him something, but rather i created my almost-perfect impersonation plan. And also, this way, i will not felt guilty when attempt once more a evil plan... In a side note, i am buying Cursed Swords :-) --ancev
Eh, fair enough. I did keep track of what I stole; red pills aren't too handy, but the pair of snowshoes will be nice enough. S. Mackie 05:22, 17 September 2007 (BST)
There, I just donated all the loot to Schnorrer (his stunt double). --Bubba_the_Shy 21:06, 27 September 2007 (BST)

Hats: Time to go?

Is it just me or are hats less workable than they used to be?

Off the top of my head I can think of several ways to make a hat mostly theft-proof:

- Being one of a number of kilgore trouts at a party (Or place that supresses the normal movement view (e.g. the GC control room) Right now someone's mule wearing a trout mask replica is sitting at the GC control room with a wizards hat) (The general issue here is disguise kits and hats)

- Locked guild rooms

- Stopping in otherwise inaccesable areas (For instance I've got talismen to mountain squares that are totally safe, but even a talisman to a corner of the thick jungle would be perfect given that I heard glass swords now wear out when you cut jungle with them.

These are minor, fixable issues, but the major problem is just that the world is now much larger and more complicated than when hats were introduced. Any thoughts? Hbookbinder

More hats? =3--Hamelin 23:46, 14 September 2007 (BST)
Well only idiots will hide in a locked guild room or else elseware will make some way to break into them and no one wants that. The kilgore trout thing is just being sneaky and hiding in hard to reach areas has always been the normal way to keep a hat. And yes, more hats would be very awesome.Kaos Dragon 23:49, 14 September 2007 (BST)
I've stolen a number of hats from kilgore trouts at a party--I encourage people to come to parties with hats.  ;) Hiding in difficult-to-reach locations has, as KD mentioned, always been the norm for hats. (If you're talking about wizard hats, they're too easy for mages to find IMHO.) As for hiding in impossible-to-access locations....back in The Day, there was an advanced player named e.bstan, who sat defiantly in his boat one square away from the Brighthelm pier wearing a wizard's hat, which no one could take since they couldn't move into the same square as his boat. Within hours of someone spotting him, grappling hooks were coded and made available for purchase by the GLs. I'm confident that similar loopholes, if abused, will also be closed quickly. (Which is why I don't hide with hats in what I consider to be "cheating" locations. It's not sporting, and I'd probably get thwacked by the GLs anyway.) And yes, I also like the idea of more hats. Mutter grumble Mad Hatter. --Dragon 02:33, 15 September 2007 (BST)
I want a toque, or one of those big fuzzy russian hats. Oh, or a chef's hat!--Hamelin 05:38, 15 September 2007 (BST)
I know this isn't the right spot, but some hat ideas - chef's hat to reduce AP costs while combining food items, a hat ov kaos that provides random effects or a viking hat that provides no bonus but does give you horns (a la the ears on a cool disguise) and keeps you from being summoned. -Jon
A fez for Tommy Cooper impersonations that makes wizards spells go wrong.Schnorrer 19:05, 29 September 2007 (BST)
GC control room, eh? I'll bet you a couple of vorpals it's not theft-proof there. And thanks for the tip-off... - Royan 19:20, 16 September 2007 (BST)

I think it's only fair to remind those of you who seem to have forgotten; hats can be stolen by manipulating the address bar manually:


This works in parties and I have no doubt that it will work in the GC Control Room. Gonzometro 20:01, 19 September 2007 (BST)

Note: If someone is using a disguise kit (Or some variety of trout mask), using their real name works. This can sometimes be nferred from total HP, but if it's not known I'm at a loss. Hbookbinder
Look at the source code - their real names are shown there. If there are several kilgore trouts, just try them one after another. Kepler 15:04, 23 September 2007 (BST)

Please stop trying to censor this information. -Scrumbucket 03:09, 29 September 2007 (BST)


Just noticed one of these critters on the monster league. Anyone see it around anywhere? -- Thog 20:42, 14 September 2007 (BST)

It was the result of a tired elseware and a Shakespeare quote on IRC. He made that monster and made a new alt named sleep and just let the monster kill it so the cities bot annouced that Macbeth killed sleep. Someone probably came along and killed it afterwards.

Seeking temporary pet care

I've been hanging about the Lucky Smells Kennels but have failed to rustle up a babysitter for my Winged Horsie and goldfish, with 315 and 159 XP apiece. I need one month's care for them, from 16 September (NZST, so 15 September to the rest of the world) to 15 October (ditto). Food of course provided. Interested persons should contact me in-game or on my talk page ASAP; rates negotiable. Thank ye. harvestbird 07:59, 13 September 2007 (BST)

I don't see an entry for you on Lucky Smells Goldfish Kennels. And did you read the instruction at the top of the page? "Both parties need to specify how they can be contacted (either by palantir or wikimail) and should make attempts to contact the people on the other list rather than just waiting for offers." I'm on the list. I haven't heard from you.
Sadly though, I also can't help you in that I'll be away for the last week of September and therefore unable to provide continuous cover. If you're having great trouble finding a sitter, I can at least provide partial cover but you'll definitely need to find someone else to keep hold of the pets in the interim period when I am absent. Or they'll die anyway. :-( -Stelio 08:11, 13 September 2007 (BST)
Indeed I didn't leave a message on the page (likely due to inattentive reading of the instructions) but rather contacted prospective sitters directly, but figured as time is running out at my end I would make a wider appeal. Thank you for the offer. As you're going to be away as well I will see if a continuous sitter is available first. harvestbird 09:06, 13 September 2007 (BST)
If you can provide at least some food for them (a flake shaker for the goldfish would be ideal), Riff Raff would be happy to look after them. Darksatanic 11:33, 13 September 2007 (BST)
Thank you, all, for the kind offers. Phw has taken both horsie and goldfish into his (?) tender care. harvestbird 04:31, 15 September 2007 (BST)
He's a he... Rhapsodie 05:32, 1 October 2007 (BST)

Welcome to S. Mackie's Bloody Stupid Corner

Here again is your bloomin' host, S. Mackie!
Remember, just because there's a button, you don't have to press it!
Laugh and learn with Mackie as he smashes his precious pinhole camera to get the film out, only to find he loses all twelve exposures to vapor!
And don't forget to join us next week when we curse and scream and laugh along when Mackie breaks something else! Until next time, careful with those cameras! S. Mackie 08:35, 7 September 2007 (BST)

Hey! You're good at comedy. Ever consider stand-up? :-) Schnorrer 09:32, 9 September 2007 (BST)
In Cities? Nah. I'm a founding member of a rescue center and a member of the major wizard's guild. It would be too much on my plate. Still, I do have my moments, I suppose. S. Mackie 16:23, 9 September 2007 (BST)

Good ol' Holiday Island

So, I haven't played this game for roughly a year. I logged in just to see if anything has changed and I have accumulated a spiffy 37000 AP. I noticed that master armorer exists now, so I decided to play a little. I walked past a market and noticed that I was owed a spiffy 167000 gold. Now if only my HP could be in the 5-7 digit range like the rest of my 4 stats.--Gaccm 02:52, 29 August 2007 (BST)

Bah! I have 59000. And I recently spent a good chunk killing about 85% of the stuff for my trophy case. Awesome!--Hamelin 05:11, 29 August 2007 (BST)
If only I had any reason to forget this game for more than ten hours. S. Mackie 05:32, 29 August 2007 (BST)
Amen brother! -Jon 16:26, 29 August 2007 (BST)

Mixology Completed. Status Report?

Current effects: You are being affected by the brown cow (18), you are being affected by the gimlet (6), you are being affected by the brandy alexander (37), you are being affected by the grasshopper (19), you are being affected by the mojito (7), there's alcohol in your blood (149), you are being affected by the sloe gin fizz (23), you are being affected by the egg nog (35), you are being affected by the gin and tonic (31), you are being affected by the wallbanger (24), you are being affected by the stinger (9), you are being affected by the daiquiri (11), you are being affected by the white russian (69), you are being affected by the sazerac (21), you are being affected by the tequila sunrise (22), you are being affected by the margherita (36), you are being affected by the dry martini (8), you are being affected by the planters punch (12), you are being affected by the mule (5), you are being affected by the tequila slammer (20), you are being affected by the zombie (10), you are being affected by the whisky mac (39), you are being affected by the champagne cocktail (32), you are being affected by the manhattan (38), you are being affected by the bloody mary (33) and you are being affected by the tom collins (34).
Oh buttocks. S. Mackie 21:11, 23 August 2007 (BST)

Huge reptile locations

Just a note for any interested shamen (is shamen the plural of shaman?) The mountains of the sun in central Oz are ideal hunting grounds for Huge Reptiles. I get one per 5ish time warps. Hbookbinder 01:08, 18 August 2007 (BST)

I recently bagged one just hanging about in one of the Oz cities. 10X 16:01, 7 September 2007 (BST)

I was amused

Now that there are three guilds, the page Category:Guilds spells out "HOT". Clearly guilds are the trendiest thing to be involved in now. :-) Sadly I'll change the link in a few days to remove the "The" from "The Cult of Nidhoggr" which will ruin the acronym. Ah well. -Stelio 23:00, 7 August 2007 (BST)

So start a fourth guild whose name begins with P or W. That'll fix it, sort of (after yours is moved to the top of the list due to alphabetical ordering). --Greycat 23:26, 7 August 2007 (BST)
(Ade's guild. Not mine.) Yes, I was indeed imagining that Cities players would be dedicated/nuts enough [delete as applicable] to name their guilds just to form words out of an alphabetical listing of all guilds. *sigh* What a great community we are. :-D -Stelio 23:59, 7 August 2007 (BST)

Wiki logo image

I've just been wondering for a few months now, are we ever going to
Set $wgLogo to the URL path to your own logo image.

or something like that? =)--Hamelin 18:51, 1 August 2007 (BST)

Well I don't know about the wiki, but since no more than a month there is a logo to the game page--Solune 21:34, 1 August 2007 (BST)
I vote we change it to the favicon just so's somebody gets it into his/her head to make a good one for that $wgLogo. It's a nice favicon, but it just wouldn't look right there...
which sounds very motivational. S. Mackie 18:23, 2 August 2007 (BST)
Maybe another contest is in order? =3--Hamelin 19:16, 9 August 2007 (BST)

Plot Bunnies and plot items

So far from reptiles I've gotten (in order) a plot point, a plot hook, and a plot device. I've used the first two killing plot bunnies, but (despite the entry on the monsters page) I have gotten no drops from them. Is everyone's first item from a Huge Reptile a plot point? If so maybe it's just a progression. Hbookbinder 21:47, 25 July 2007 (BST)

I killed two reptiles today and got a plot point from one and a plot twist from the other (I can't remember which order). Killed two bunnies with them and one dropped a story. Elsewhere was saying on IRC today that he was thinking 100 stories would be required for the quest originally, but now he's thinking it'll probably be 20. He also confirmed that the quest was kill reptiles->kill bunnies->collect stories. The quest is designed to be one that you complete eventually on the side while you go around shaman-ating, rather than one that you can focus on and complete quickly (which is why it's frustrating if you're trying to focus on it to complete it quickly.) hendsch 22:13, 25 July 2007 (BST)
Where do I need to be hunting these reptiles? Is it in the Crill Sea, or is there some other (no doubt obvious) clue I've missed? Stoo 22:45, 25 July 2007 (BST)
They spawn all over the main map, but very infrequently. They were added on July 12-ish and only 7 have spawned, a rate of much less than 1/day. Given that the drop rate of stories seems to be less than 50%, it's going to be awhile before anyone can get to even 20 stories, unless the spawn rate for reptiles is increased. Disclaimer: Evidently some untarotable Huge Reptiles exist, it's possble there is a secret reptile hangout somewhere where they are found in greater numbers. (Plot bunnies also increase slowly (unusualy for Bunnies) but they spawn in specific locations so Time Warps can speed things up) Hbookbinder 22:59, 25 July 2007 (BST)
I'm sure things will speed up once Dr.Em (still evil?) decides to be more welcoming. --Bubba_the_Shy 10:05, 26 July 2007 (BST)
I'm not so sure. That could very well be Dr Em's standard response unless you have 20 stories. -- Thog 13:21, 26 July 2007 (BST)
Still getting the same response with 20 stories, so either it requires more or the quest isn't coded yet. --Jpv 17:10, 7 August 2007 (BST)

The 'Kingdom needs cash sinks!

This would normally go under Suggestions, but I'm curious what the other Cities denizens think of this subject. At present, Cities is locked in an inflationary cycle; market prices continue to rise, and show no signs of stopping. Many players prefer to barter, rather than trade, because for most interesting items, they're not on the market long enough to be bought. Please forgive my wordiness as I wax somewhat eloquent about cash flows. I'm afraid this will be repetitive for anyone who's ever looked seriously at an economy. (Note: I have very, very little knowledge of economics. Just enough to shoot myself in the foot, really. Please do correct me if I've bungled.)

There are two main sources that create money in the 'Kingdom: cash dropped by monsters, and the proceeds from selling to game stores like Caroline's, the wizard towers, and Seb's and the like.

There's plenty of trading of cash between players on the markets, at stalls, and in trades. This serves the purpose of keeping money in the game, but otherwise doesn't affect much.

Finally, there's cash sinks, where money is removed from the economy. There are two flavors: one-shot cash sinks (the Solid Gold Fiddle, Martial Arts books, and pet eggs are good examples), and constant cash sinks (general stores, Seb's, and wizard's towers, when you're buying).

I use "one-shot" and "constant" on a per-player basis here: people may be making fiddles and buying pets at some global rate, but once a player has their Fiddle and Pet requirements filled, they're not going back.

So what about those constant cash sinks? They're mostly pretty negligible, in the interest of encouraging player interaction. The main items worth purchasing are talismans, aligned stones, possibly Long Bows (when the market runs out), BB Guns, and possibly Midas Wands as an alternate Glass Sword. Most other items are available much, much cheaper on the markets. (Phasers and Power Crystals are somewhat of an exception if you have a pirate hat, but Space is such a pain to get to and from that the supply is low.) Glass and Vorpal weapons have such absurd prices that, again, they're cheaper on the markets, even if the supply is low.

The problem with runaway inflation is that the richest players are very, very rich. The rich players bid up the price of everything, until the only items on the market are selling at prices for the rich. Also, there's arguably more gold than items in the game: when higly-valued things go on the market, they're usually bought up very, very quickly.

I'm curious: what kind of cash sinks should Cities get to cut the inflation to manageable rates? If the solution is shop-based, then it must be cheaper than the going rate on the markets, and even be cheaper to purchase from the shops than to craft or to find via monster-farming. Reducing Seb's prices would help, but the GLs are loathe to have players running around with fifty glass swords and thirty vorpals. Any solutions should also avoid obsoleting armorers, too.

PotatoEngineer 16:48, 22 July 2007 (BST)

How about the ability to pay a Monastry 1 million GP in exchange for some Measures of Serenity? That'd remove money from the game without ruining things for those that can't afford to pay for it. Or maybe a GP Toss martial art? Random4518 18:18, 22 July 2007 (BST)
Or change the code so you can put gold in bags. If I could choose how much gold to use when using a Golden Gun, I use them a lot more..... Andrewsi 22:58, 22 July 2007 (BST)
There is another cash sink in the game. For every purchase made from the large player owned shops (the 200 item ones) 17.5% of the purchase price immediately bypasses the seller in taxes. Consider that if I'm selling an item for 100k GP, that's 17,500 that is immediately out of the game. It's deducted at the time of purchase, not something I'm expected to stop in and make payments on like a contract palantir. As one of the guilty parties of the very rich (at least I think I'm in there, I havent checked the tables in some time), I can tell you that I do spend some of my wealth every few weeks. Just today I spent a little over 400k, but as PE pointed out it was re-distributed at the markets. On top of this, there's no taxes paid at the market. I don't have a solution in mind that I think would fly, but I'd be very willing to pay a fee to have a second or larger shop than I have now. I have piles of stuff I doubt I'll use, but am limited in what I can offer for sale. I don't think I'd pay a million GP for a Measure of Serenity, but I would pay for them. Maybe something more along the lines of 100k. There's not many ways to turn 300 AP (what you now spend to get the measure) into 100K GP short of the hope of getting a pricey piece of treasure from a monster kill. Since that's not guaranteed, this doesn't seem exploitative to me. I agree with Andrewsi. If I could stash my gold without having to leave it in my shop, I'd use my Golden Gun. The way around this being exploited is to make the bag (or make a new item: wallet) hold it in set increments, say of 25,000 GP per. -Jon 00:11, 23 July 2007 (BST)
If the 'Kingdom was to go the way of a conventional market-led economy, the richest would be using their excess cash to enrich the culture (perhaps supporting the cultural endeavours of others instead of throwing poop at them?) I know armourers make some ordinary stuff as well as war stuff, but how about a whole new career trajectory - artisans - so the rich elite have something beautiful and pointless to blow all their millions on? Schnorrer 17:51, 23 July 2007 (BST)
I'm not sure most rich people really blow their millions on enriching the culture.
My vote? Investment in the Retirement Village. Make it a home-away-from-home for those what are rich enough to afford it. First, one must buy property, then one must develop it...
I figure the development might end up being sorta like building from a mud spot to a holy state in Divine Power. Essentially meaningless, though, without any clear benefit. Except that it could serve as a vault, maybe, if you spent the funds? 04:35, 24 July 2007 (BST)
I'm with Macksting on this one; even if there were Public Works for the millionaires to invest in, there's no guarantee at all they'd actually invest. A number of the multimillionaires in the game do not participate in the social side of the game, so we can't count on social pressure for donations. Ideally, any cash sink would be something that players would willingly spend money on, or are incapable of avoiding (like shop taxes). Then we can count on greed to drive the cash sink, which is always an excellent bet when hunams are involved. PotatoEngineer 06:49, 24 July 2007 (BST)
I'm sorry, I actually meant that I doubt most rich people in real life would work to enrich their surroundings. Granted, I could be wrong there, as well. Cities attracts an odd bunch, and this idea might work out nicely with the audience available. Maybe Cities rich people will want to make the world prettier.
I'd still like Retirement Village mansions. S. Mackie 18:15, 24 July 2007 (BST)
I'd pay 200k gold, or thereabouts, for a measure of serenity. Another way that some other games pull cash out of their economies is by holding a raffle. A valuable prize is created, and players buy raffle tickets for some specified amount of money. They can buy as many tickets as they like. Then, one winner is selected, and receives the prize. Greycat 13:33, 24 July 2007 (BST)

BFG9000 anyone? Gold has never been terribly useful in cities and rare/cool items have almost always been traded rather than sold. From my perspective, it's only since the advent of player run shops and people trying for the top spot in GP that rare items have been sold instead. The prices in the Non-player shops will determine the overall price levels, and right now, I'd guess glass swords are the best indicator (it used to be power crystals) since they are always useful and consumable. A glass sword can be bought from Seb's for 50K (with hat). Once market prices hit that level, they should stabilize. Creating new money sinks are only a temporary fix: it will just encourage people to spend more of their AP generating gold. hendsch 15:00, 24 July 2007 (BST)

I'm favourable to a cash sink. As I've heard from the ancients, there used to be a time when alchemists were useful. That, and the fact that I could never keep 50 kGP without spending them. As cash sink, I propose a set of luxury services: concorde flights to Oz (that take less time, but are very expensive), limousines instead of taxis, and maybe a set of golden armour--Solune 20:07, 24 July 2007 (BST)
Of course, fitting into the spirit of the game, it'd probably be better to make a Golden Fleece from some number of gold bits. This of course can be converted into Golden Short Wool, Golden Wool, Golden Jumpers, Gold Gloves, etc. -- Thog 20:35, 24 July 2007 (BST)

What about hired guards to hold valuable items. Since we can't be summoned, there is no way to get us into the thieves forrest... Wait, we would just get the money. But I don't really use money. --Qazxcv 22:00, 24 July 2007 (BST)

I doubt people would give their money away to a large scale project just for the sake of doing so (or the sake of lightening their wallet). If we are serious about cash sinks, we need to think of items that will cost a lot, provide a nice benefit, and eventually go away. Thus, things like brighthelm rocks, HK items, midas wands, and glass swords are good candidates already in place. There are also luxury items such as speeder bikes and wholes of the moon, for those of us with more money than sense. In my mind, items that are optimal for selling (low or limited use but good gold return; like books, athames, and cream) will continue to be sold rather than used. Items optimal for buying (listed above) are good cash sinks for mid-to-high level players. Most of which, as discussed above, are one-time buys as they only provide a single benefit (e.g. martial arts books) or are luxury items of which you only want one (if you don't use your speeder bike, why would you want another). That, however, is not where the problem has been identified. Personally, I have no problem with inflation, but I also recognize that younger or less experienced players may find it annoying that there are useful items (e.g. cucumber sandwiches, jars of plum jam, cacti) that they simply can't afford. If the goal is to eliminate players who have too much gold, we would have to target the high-rollers (say, 5M gold or more) by giving them appealing options. Examples include the degree of enlightenment idea listed above (though I personally believe 1M gold is too high and 200K is too low of a price for a single degree) and other appealing options such as "making" gold bling from a ridiculous amount of gold (say, 2.5M gold and 250 mana) - but I have heard the developers say that this specific idea will never happen. Both of these options give limited AP gain (+150AP or until the bling breaks), so the high cost does not provide a permanent benefit and will have to be repayed eventually. The other problem is that anything in cities is obtainable if you wait long enough. Time is money, and AP will always regenerate. Thus, given enough time, you'll get enough gold. You can buy a cactus on the market or spend 96AP to forage for one, depending on whether you value gold or AP more. If you kill enough earth worms, you'll eventually get enough gold for your speeder bike. Thus, a good money sink system needs to have options for people who value money over AP (ideas such as martial arts books where there is no other option but to spend gold to get the benefit) and players who value AP over money (ideas like Seb's vorpal blades where it can be AP-intensive to get the item, but you can buy them for a ton of gold). --JAD 23:29, 24 July 2007 (BST)

I think the real problem is that items newbies might want to buy (such as cucumbers, plums etc.) rather than create (because there is no easy way to change alignment) have been made increasingly expensive because high level players with lots of money and who value their AP more than their GP *have a use* for these items. For instance the introduction of Pwnys put the price of Earth produce through the roof because it is AP intensive to get (especially for people who don't start out as Earth) - I think that one thing that would stop the rampant inflation in the cost of such items would be to stop introducing new high-level uses for them and instead add new items which have high-level uses but which are not going to be needed by newbies. --naath 10:58, 25 July 2007 (BST)

Jumping in late here with my two cents. I think the problem, if there is one, is not so much one of total money supply but unbalanced money creation. I don't know a lot about it, but I would guess that some of the people with piles of money have either done things that were rather tedious (merchanting, IMO, for example, or repeatedly camping a rare or unique monster) or were due to some (possibly temporary) imbalance in game mechanics. If acquiring money is a major goal for you, then you will do these things. But if you are playing for fun, and don't find that piles of GP increases that fun, you can try to get what you need in the barter economy. The game has typically rewarded community over brute min-maxing, which is nice. I don't think you'll find a cash sink solution that only singles out those that are acquiring large sums of it. Sinks are likely to make life tedious for the "fun" players as well. Droll 15:41, 7 September 2007 (BST)

Mountains of Madness

Having a fly around int condor I bumped into this (what I think is a) new mountain range. The most southerly reachable part is at 99E 140N. From here it extends east into the blackness. The range also extends north from this point for a bit, before once again curling off to the east. I flew all around it and could find no way in/up. I imagine this'll have something to do with the level 3 wizard quest, given the timing. Nuru nuru 10:53, 14 July 2007 (JST)

They've been there quite a while, according to the Glendale maps. PotatoEngineer 02:57, 14 July 2007 (BST)
Right-o. I'd never heard mention of 'em before. Nuru nuru 11:26, 14 July 2007 (JST)
I hope there aren't any Shoggoth there... Unstenk 16:58, 14 July 2007 (BST)
Do you know what where we're going? That's right, we're going to feed the Shoggoth. PotatoEngineer 22:24, 14 July 2007 (BST)
Is it just me, or does anyone else hear Judy Garland when they read that phrase? Darksatanic 22:47, 14 July 2007 (BST)

Huge Reptiles?

I followed the Tarot to Lady Caroline's Turrets, hoping to see the "Huge Reptile" promised. But all I found there was the 'King in his guise as Shaman Elseware. Anyone managed to spot a real live huge reptile? Rackmount 23:51, 11 July 2007 (BST)

I can spot a real live me! Er, wait, you mean the other kind. Well...
  1. Wizards can see them. (At least, a Shaman can.)
  2. They're a bad pun. (As mentioned, they're a different sort of huge reptile than I am.  :) )
  3. I sense a number of forced Dissolution spells in the near future.
--Dragon 05:19, 12 July 2007 (BST)
I killed the first one (thanks for the help, Dragon!) Spoiler here. -- Sertularian 05:26, 12 July 2007 (BST)

The 'king speaks on IRC.

10:38 < elseware> btw they are step 1 in the lv 3 wiz quest...
10:38 < elseware> Don't expect to finish it anytime soon!

--naath 10:40, 12 July 2007 (BST)

Hmm. Sert, have you gone to see Evil Dr. Em since you killed the lizard? -- Thog 14:29, 12 July 2007 (BST)

I killed the second Huge Reptile. Two changes: 1) Attacking now uses up the letter. 2) Now drops a Plot Point (a weapon which can kill plot bunnies). Unfortunately I killed a test bunny with my plot point and now I'm stuck until I can kill a second Huge Reptile. I'm looking for information on where Huge Reptiles spawn (apparently Sert and I killed test versions). hendsch 19:04, 12 July 2007 (BST)

Glad to know there's something that can kill Plot Bunnies. I was running out of ideas. Nuru nuru 12:58, 13 July 2007 (JST)
Has anyone attempted to perhaps, build a crabby patty and give it to the plankton? --Ade 20:04, 15 July 2007 (BST)
God, no. Please don't be a reference to that! I'm not sure I could take it. (Although being able to kill their ringleader would be tempting...) -Scrumbucket 20:42, 15 July 2007 (BST)

I found one on the road east of fire city. Is it safe to assume that was another test? They show up in the tarot, but my searches all failed but one. Normally if no creatures of a certain type are spawned it won't show up in the tarot (So jasons seldom appear in the tarot) Do any monsters other than huge reptiles display this behavior (and where do they live)? They aren't in the zoo, and the primeval jungle (which seemed like a promising location) that used to exist in the high plateau seems to habe been replaced with a void. Hbookbinder 05:34, 16 July 2007 (BST)

I checked the Arena, but no reptiles there. --Jpv 12:32, 16 July 2007 (BST)
The ones that Sert and I killed had Shaman Elsewhere standing right next to them. After I killed mine, I tried the Tarot again and found nothing, so yours must have spawned later. In my opinion yours was a real one. The assumption is that the other (others?) have spawned in locations that aren't Tarotable (like the arena). I've checked barbelith (thinking it a likely spot for a thesaurus) and found nothing. hendsch 15:08, 16 July 2007 (BST)
I found another one randomly in Oz. This one dropped a Plot Hook, which does more damage than a Plot Point. I used up my last plot point on a plot bunny, but the bunny had no drop so I'm hesitant to use this one on another bunny.Hbookbinder 21:04, 16 July 2007 (BST)
Was this one also found on road terrain? 14:01, 17 July 2007 (BST)
Nope this one was found in a beack next to a totem. Hbookbinder 19:38, 17 July 2007 (BST)
Quite possible that plot hooks are used on some form of plot fish instead. S. Mackie 04:49, 17 July 2007 (BST)
Plot hooks can be used to kill plot bunnies. Blue pills won't stop plot hooks from breaking (at least 1 blue pill doesn't). My second plot bunny also had no drop. Hbookbinder 08:31, 17 July 2007 (BST)

The next time someone comes across a Huge Reptile, can you Tarot it to make sure it registers? I've gotten enough "you fail" messages that I'm starting to wonder if the critter's aren't untarotable (which would make the quest next to impossible to complete) -- Thog 19:48, 17 July 2007 (BST)

They are tarotable. I found two via tarot deck, but I also have spent many AP getting "you fail" messages.

Show inventory Stevie's way

I hadn't looked at the preference menu for a while and I noticed this button, but I don't see any difference compared to "show inventory normally". What's it do?--Hamelin 14:20, 11 July 2007 (BST)

Hides quantities. What I'd actually like (and am about to add to Suggestions/User Interface) is an option to show inventory in the same format as bag contents (itemname x quantity). It will make parsing when copied into spreadsheets much easier... --BlaisedeC 15:10, 11 July 2007 (BST)
If you want a compute readable version of your inventory, why not use the XML interface? MrFoo 16:06, 11 July 2007 (BST)
1) This option predates the XML, and 2) Really, parsing XML sucks if you just want to do something simple. --Dragon 16:34, 11 July 2007 (BST)
I haven't seen a spreadsheet with a decent interface to XML. Oh, I failed to mention that in both that inventory listing and the bag contents I'd like a way to hide damage and to hit for weapons (since I can't just strip all parentheticals due to cracked summon stones). --BlaisedeC 16:46, 11 July 2007 (BST)
Two brief notes: One, this applies to this Inventory page (/cgi-bin/invent) rather than the dropdown inventory box. Two, what BlaisedeC describes was the original intended behavior; it's never worked correctly. (It was coded with, er, not enough blood in the alcohol stream.) --Dragon 16:34, 11 July 2007 (BST)
Thank you for the clarification; yes, that is the inventory listing I was meaning. What I describe as my desired behaviour was the intended behaviour, I presume you mean; the behaviour I describe as what it currently does is correct for what it currently does. --BlaisedeC 16:46, 11 July 2007 (BST)

Darker OZ Caves?

Did the caves in Oz just recently get darker? I don't remember not being able to see the monsters in the dark before. Now, if there is no monster, I can see the lit cave background. But if there is a monster the path is dark and I cannot see what kind of grue is waiting to eat me. (course, this only applies if you are not wearing a light source)

(oh, and speaking of light sources, why can't we make candles from all our beeswax?)density 15:01, 9 July 2007 (BST)

doh! I'm wearing shades

Performance Art Annoying?

There's a conversation going on at the current party about whether all the performance art is getting annoying. For some reason, every time I try to say something it doesn't work. Therefore I will say it here instead.


I like the mimes and art installations, eg: clever illusions, funny golems, disguises ("I am a lava lamp" was genius!) Poetry and singing can get to be a bit much, though. I think it's because of the small size of the message box and the sheer volume of stuff that I have to scroll through to see what's going on. Having said that, I do believe in artistic expression and don't want to discourage it. I would just like to suggest that when you're singing or reciting, keep it short. Case in point: If I just had said all of that at the party, it would have been extremely annoying to scroll through, wouldn't it? -Scrumbucket 01:37, 7 July 2007 (BST)

I have no trouble with excessive talking at parties. If I can't be bothered reading it all then I can just ignore it and get on with my adventuring. Worst that'll happen is that I'll get a nice surprise when I next stop off at a market office. Maybe we could have a semi-new item for people who are against excessive talking. I propose half a blue ribbon. "FREE SPEECH NOW! Well, within limits. I mean, if it's important then go ahead; but please try to curtail your poems/songs. Anything more than 4 lines is far too postrock-sized for my liking. Now be off with you." Nuru nuru 15:26, 7 July (JST)
I'd like to come down on the side of "performance art is good." If you sit at a party, the "Player X teleports out" spam far outweighs the performance art speech. Should we start a petition against talismaning out at a party? I say bring on the oddity! On a side note, I believe that any speech longer than some length causes a white-screen error. It would be nice if the speech textbox limited input to this size, rather than simply losing your speech. PotatoEngineer 07:47, 7 July 2007 (BST)
Exactly - I'd much rather read other people's creative output than find out that Duke Winklebottom has just disappeared (yet) again to the sound of rain tinkling. And your point regarding shouting is well taken - although it'll be a slightly more complex process performing so that everyone can see the performance and hear the performance too. Possible though, with a double act. Schnorrer 07:56, 7 July 2007 (BST)
Being able to "see" a performance doesn't matter in the slightest. For 98% of the players at a party, the performance consists of logging in and seeing that somebody recited a poem while they weren't there. The performance loses nothing if you change into your disguise, walk onto the party, say your lines, and stand to the side for a while, and it's a major improvement to not be shouting. PotatoEngineer 10:40, 7 July 2007 (BST)
if you go to a party, you have to be prepared for other party people having fun. so what if people sing and such at parties. that the whole point!Zoological 08:57, 8 July 2007 (BST)
I vote that it be considered officially poor taste to:
  1. Practice an instrument at a party, unless part of a performance; and
  2. Talisman directly away from a party.
Granted, a lot of the folk hanging out at a party are there because they're AP Whores, but surely the 1 or 2 extra AP to politely step away and save countless others from non-informative messages isn't that much... My 2c - Cthu1hu 04:48, 13 July 2007 (BST)

Equal Rights for Neutral Players! (Live Free or Don't)

Sign the petition for neutrals to be given their own city. I'm sure they'd appreciate it. - Isambard 23:15, 4 July 2007 (BST)

What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
I submit a special Satanic Garden-esq place within city limits where players can plant magic beans for stones. Perhaps all the taverns will sell water as well.

Are the Indigo Guards on strike?

I am trying to defeat the Rainbow Guards in the Ancient Castle. I have spent two days and have seen all of them except for Indigo Guards. I have been fighting them in order, can't proceed further until I off one of them sneaky goof-offs. Are they all on furlough or what? Also don't know if it is a "feature" or a bug, but the Tarot Deck only finds Infra-Red Guards. Thanks for any ideas. --Mr.Kilgore 14:53, 4 July 2007 (BST)

All kinds of guards are the same according to the Tarot Deck (and kill tables), so it won't help in finding a specific color of guard. If you've walked around the entire Undercroft (see the spoiler map) and haven't seen any Indigos, the only advice I could give would be to kill a bunch of guards in order to clear some room for them to spawn. (Of course, that means you'd have to start over killing them in order.) --Dragon 18:14, 4 July 2007 (BST)

Stalls and shops, mall and outside of mall

I just set up a shop in the mall. It seemed like the best, highest traffic area. For owners of stalls and shops outside of the mall, how do you find business moving since the mall opened? Steady? Slow? Certainly of course it depends on your prices and the items you sell, so let's presume you pay attention to your stall/shop. Where are you located? A major Kingdom City? The interior? Oz? Middle of effin' nowhere? I'm curious as to where my alts should open their stalls when they get around to it. It seems to be the best to try out different things with each character, you know, get a richer experience. --Ade 04:53, 4 July 2007 (BST)

Reasonably steady. There may have been a slight drop in traffic since the Mall opened, but nothing major--then again, I'm in a good location (Fire City). --Dragon 06:17, 4 July 2007 (BST) P.S. Buy my stuff! Hey, do subliminal messages actually work?
I've found the mall to be quite lucrative, actually. Of course, it depends on what you sell. There are probably higher-traffic locations (like the middle of a city), but it all really depends on what you sell. I check mine every other day, and my reports indicate business. I'm sure that if I sold crap or set cheap/expensive prices, no one would come. I especially like the mall because I can check mallr to compare myself to the in-mall competition. --JAD 15:26, 7 July 2007 (BST)
I had a HUGE drop in traffic when I first moved into the mall. It was extremely discouraging and I nearly closed up shop in favor of returning to the Southern Market. Eventually people found me again and began buying and selling. I use mallr all the time, and there's a few items I'm not offering the best deal in town on, but for the most part I can remain competitive and still make a very good profit. All that being said, I experimented with a few locations (near the Kingdom airport, Champs Elysees, etc) and found the Champs Elysees to be very profitable when I was there. -Jon 18:38, 7 July 2007 (BST)
I'm not sure if it's helpful to say this, but I do all my shopping at 'kingdom owned establishments or in the Mall. It's just easier. S. Mackie 00:00, 8 July 2007 (BST)

... Hephaestus?

according to my gas bill, Hephaestus is meant to be at [78, 140]... he's not here... or in the vacinity. i've checked the grid several times as well... anyone know why he's not there? Armourer erinne

First of all, is that 78E, 140S or 140N? There might be user created terrain overriding the smithy (i.e. a tauntaun, a whale).
Secondly, are you sure this is the correct solution to the riddle? Try to solve it again to see if there's a second solution. If nothing works, put it on the Bugs page. Rockefellow
140N.... and it's on a tarn. not tat that should affect anything.
I think it might, actually. At least two other armourers (including myself) have also had problems with smithing gods on Tarn terrain. (The only thing I can think of is that it's colder than the surrounding environment.) Post it on the bugs page (my bug report is here if you want to piggyback); DS manually moved mine off of the Tarn but was looking into what caused it to begin with. --Dragon 00:13, 2 July 2007 (BST)
AHA! I think I might have found this one at last. I hope it's fixed now. (Oh, and stuff like this should go on the Bugs page. I regularly skim through the whole page and fix stuff that I can fix, which I don't do on other pages) Darksatanic 11:31, 2 July 2007 (BST)

hey, i can't log in at the moment. my other characters can, but aparently erinne is expiriencing king fiddling time... i really need to log in and feed my goldfish... and i posted this in the bugs page too... Armourer erinne

Space Douchebaggery

Several weeks ago a friend and I ventured into space. Our plan is to harvest as much bits of silver and power crystals as we can manage in order to power our various toys and produce a couple of extra ones. We've been doing pretty okay, it's been a little slow for me since I'm an apprentice and lack the badass Duke damage multiplier, but a nice spell book works pretty well most of the time.

But I do move at a slower pace. Often I'll have to stop in the middle of processing an asteroid. I figure hey, any respectable player who comes across an earth aligned player between three air aligned large asteroids won't be a dick and steal them. I have been using my dibs wand, but one the asteroid breaks apart the dibs does not carry over. And unfortunately my last one broke about a week ago.

The past several days someone has been deliberately harvesting my air aligned rocks which I stand RIGHT NEXT TO. This in itself is annoying, yes. But hey, its space. I can find more asteroids. Even if some douchebag steals the left overs, I can still do what I came here to do. And hey, it's okay if someone accidentally takes one or two without thinking. Everyone makes mistakes.

But thisis freaking malicious. Not only did the person in question steal my aligned asteroids which I was standing RIGHT NEXT TO, but they also had the incredible sense of humor to leave four PolyChromic Dragons to my north, east, south and west.

Yeah, that cloak of invisibility? Doesn't work. That invisibility spell that I luckily transcribed into my spell book? Yeah, doesn't work either.

Oh, wait. I can simply talisman away. Yeah, even if it didn't mean an enormous effort getting back into space, impossible. Maybe ask a pal to summon me? Oh, yeah. Not possible. Maybe blow my horn and go to the lovely land of Asgard? Not going to work.

I would very much appreciate it if the Great Lords would kindly remove one of them so I can continue on my merry way. Or if four differently aligned Dukes would like a go at one, please feel absolutely free. I am located to the immediate east of the stations SE corner. --Ade 23:06, 25 June 2007 (BST)

Apprentice Ade has been liberated, but the villain is still at large. -Hbookbinder
Thank you! I very much appreciate the liberation. Very fast, too. You sir, are my hero. If anyone happens to reveal the name of the villain, I'd very much... appreciate knowing who it was. --Ade 23:43, 25 June 2007 (BST)

I'm wondering if the PCDs in mention are still there? Someone went through a lot of effort to trap you, Ade.. even my "mortal" enemy Bubba just pokes me with a stick every now and then. Also, I have several dibs wands to spare. Let me know if you need them - I'm at the hospital satellite. :D Corellis 05:52, 26 June 2007

I think 3 are still in place. So if you knew who it was a magic display spell, a summon stone, a time warp, a fungal spray spell, a flashgun, and another crushed can of worms can provide a vessel for karma. If I came across Dragon in space I might pen him in, but as a shaman I feel picking on apprentices is unkind and should be discouraged. There are cheap items that would let you escape such a trap easily though so I suppose for a satsifying revenge you'd have to ensure your ne'er do well lacked, among other things, kraken pieces. -Hbookbinder
Hey, what did I ever do to you (or anyone else for that matter)?! --Dragon 07:25, 26 June 2007 (BST)
Hey all, I'm the friend Ade mentioned. I can confirm that there are still three Polys left, and as of right now all of them are at full strength.--Prthivi 09:58, 26 June 2007 (BST)
Sorry Dragon, I was using you as a generic example of someone who could be expected to get out of such a trap with relatively little inconvenience. -Hbookbinder
In case that wasn't clear: For the same reason throwing pies at people is funny and throwing rocks at people not so much. -Hbookbinder

I notice lots of earth worms in the picture you show. Is that perhaps why someone is upset with you? If this happens again, note that your teleport spells should still work in space, so wizard's retreat will get you out. One of the Hops would work even better. hendsch 18:15, 26 June 2007 (BST)

He doesn't really keep that many cans of worms on him at any given time, and even so, the more worms he puts out, the less asteroids he gets. Which, since we're collecting bits of metal would be a bad thing.--Prthivi 23:03, 26 June 2007 (BST)
I actually didn't open a single can of worms this visit. It must be someone else. I have many reagents, but nothing for hopping. I was under the impression that the teleport spells getting someone out of space were nerfed awhile back (which is why I didn't try it) but apparently that was not the case. After loading up with all the material we've collected thus far, I have officially left space using one of my ten billion olives and wizard's retreat. Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. --Ade 13:54, 27 June 2007 (BST)
moi has taken it upon himself to clean Space of all Poly Dragons (great drops) --Bubba_the_Shy 00:07, 28 June 2007 (BST)
I was really, really, really sad to hear that such a terrible thing happened to you Ade -- Schnorrer 08:55, 28 June 2007 (BST)

Sweet Cannon Gone

The Caravel has apparently been altered. Now it gives a 'Model Caravel Cannon' instead of 'Caravel Cannon' when equipped. Sorts in weapons but doesn't list an attack. When used, shows:

You attack the Kraken.
You cause 0 points of damage, and receive 0 experience.
You lose a Cannon Ball.
You lose 10 Measures of Black Powder.
Pickles attacks the Kraken for 1 damage.
The Kraken misses you.

any guess on what I need to kill sea-monsters again? or is this some kind of bug? Gonzometro 03:40, 25 June 2007 (BST)

Any chance a Master Armourer now needs to do something to upgrade it? (Can anyone who's obtained MA-hood look in their recipie books to see?) -- Thog 03:53, 25 June 2007 (BST)
Nothing relevant in my recipe book. --Dragon 04:31, 25 June 2007 (BST)
Sorry, was a bug. I fixed an exploit (nobody told me for ages, either, you bastards). In doing so, I introduced a bug. Darksatanic 11:46, 25 June 2007 (BST)
Bastards? The hell kind of exploit was this? S. Mackie 03:33, 26 June 2007 (BST)
Crikey, I hope no one mentions the massively AP-saving bug with spell books that's been going on for a little while now. Nuru nuru the uncharacteristically honest 21:47, 27 June 2007 (JST)
Shh! Stoo 22:37, 27 June 2007 (BST)
We shouldn't mention the toads roaming freely in the sewers and completing their quest without fighting either. What was that about spellbooks?--Solune 08:03, 28 June 2007 (BST)

Next Underground Quest

Something that just occurred to me: before the Earth Altar in the Mines was disabled, a number of us managed to activate it (activating all four as a result). Now once the next phase of the underground quests is complete, will we have to go back and re-activate the altar again, or will the next part be accessible to us immediately? -- Thog 22:00, 20 June 2007 (BST)

Death Alts

A lot of people find them annoying, but since people still keep playing them, could we have a page where they could be named so that charitable types don't waste their AP healing them or trying to return (unwanted) corpses? Some are common knowledge to people in IRC, but not to everyone else - as seen with Dragon's recent edit of the Becoming a Doctor quest page. Saving that, perhaps they could wear badges? Spugmeistress 09:01, 18 June 2007 (BST)

... whats a death alt? Zoological 12:23, 18 June 2007 (BST)

There's someone out there with an alt that gets killed on purpose. People are playing party games with his corpses or something, I dunno. Random4518 12:38, 18 June 2007 (BST)
Several people, actually. There was a game as you mentioned, , and there may also be a goal to top the score table, but I think the idea is mostly to annoy people who frequent IRC, where there are real-time automated notifications of player deaths. (The death alts I know of are controlled by IRC regulars in the first place.) --Dragon 16:30, 18 June 2007 (BST)
Well the people that usually heal are people trying to get their MD, and so it's not really a waste unless you already have your waterskin. I tried to solve this with mine by lowering his hp so not much can be healed (also so it is easier to kill). Usually people with deathalts have made it easier to spot by their names as well. Mine is Deathlock, and one of the alts I see running around is actually titled "Death Alt" he is a baron last I saw.
Death Alt is certainly not a death alt, instead created to point out how silly that practice is. As you can see he hasn't died once, and does not intend to. --Jpv 18:00, 11 July 2007 (BST)
I've no intention of dying, but you can see how well that's going... S. Mackie 20:16, 11 July 2007 (BST)

Darth Mall

the darth mall spent some time looking like hells mouth or sommat along those lines... whats with that? Zoological 12:56, 15 June 2007 (BST)

Read the exchange on Darth Mall for explanation. Oh and it's a Buffy ref ;) Spugmeistress 13:16, 15 June 2007 (BST)

Where have all the Goths gone?

So, I'm trying to finish off my trophy cabinet, and I want to get a Goth. So I shovel my way down into the dungeon under Harvey Farm, because that's where the Wiki says Goths can be found. There's not one there - no problem! I use a Time Warp. What do I get? Rats. No $%&^ Goth.

Am I in the wrong spot? Am I just unlucky? Or have the Goths all gone? -- Cthu1hu 09:00, 12 Jun 2007 (GMT)

Clean out the rats, Time Warp, rinse, repeat. Flt 14:02, 12 June 2007 (BST)
I tried that three times a few weeks ago with no luck. --BlaisedeC 19:44, 12 June 2007 (BST)
The Random Number God has smited (smitten?) you, then. It worked on the first try for me when I did it. PotatoEngineer 19:46, 12 June 2007 (BST)
Personally, I just took advantage of the fact that you can skip 3 or 4 monsters for the Hunting Lodge quest and just skipped the Goths altogether. Made life a lot simpler... -- Thog 19:49, 12 June 2007 (BST)
That's no good for completists. - Isambard 05:06, 13 June 2007 (BST)
Easily the toughest monster to spawn in the entire quest (not counting kangeroos and mammoths for those of us who finished it earlier). If you want to finish the quest, leave this one out. If you want to kill one for "completist" (I like the term) purposes, bring many time warps or prepare to spend days in the dungeon. Oh, and don't forget that they can spawn in the path next to the exit. Time warps don't touch that spot, but I got mine there. -JADW27 (June 25, I think)

Fenris Wolf Trophy?

So, after finally finishing the other Frozen North quests, I journeyed to Asgard to fight the Fenris Wolf. After defeating the wolf, I got this message...

You attack the Fenris Wolf.
You cause 32 points of damage, and receive 480 experience.
You slay the Fenris Wolf.
You add the trophy to your case!

Now, I had already defeated a normal wolf and gotten it's trophy, so I don't know what this is about. After checking my trophy cabinet, I could not find the Fenris Wolf, either. Has anyone else that's waited to do the northern quests had this happen to them? Unstenk 14:13, 10 June 2007 (BST)

You get the 'add trophy' message every time you kill a monster for the first time, even if it's not on the list, it's a known bug/feature --Solune 14:29, 10 June 2007 (BST)
The game stores _any_ monster you slay when you kill it for the first time after you your New Cabinet - even if the trophy is not required. You will also get this message for each Rat you slay and for each other unique monster. DSimply ignore it. Flt 14:38, 10 June 2007 (BST)

Oh Mother, Tell Your Children...

... not to do what I have done!
Working off a hangover from a red pill, I became impatient; while shaman, Hendsch had concluded that mana acquisition slows if you are carrying beyond a certain threshold. Seeing as how I'm on a pentacle, I hit that threshold within two days; that's also roughly the threshold required to transcribe a specific spell in my spellbook.
Transcribing this spell required 240 AP on a good day. I had been trying to burn off the hangover, because performing any action under the hangover effects of a red pill will cost twice as much AP, even if it is well beyond the burn-through required. However, when I saw that magic number of mana come up, I didn't hesitate to consider the effects!
And so my character, Sorcerer Mackie, shall lie unconscious until an hour from now tomorrow, hangover gone and two days of time lost to memory. Several spells richer (he maketh me to lie in green pentacles) and with roughly the same mana he had before he fell down twitching, to say nothing of 900 HP to his name, several hundred over max. No voices wake or pain him, for his toilsome hangover is done, but nothing shall wake him until his appointed time.
Do me a favor, if you will. Don't be this stupid. Ever. My pets will be very hungry (alive, having been well-fed just before, but hungry) and my didgeridoo will play a little funny until I'm back in the hang of it; more importantly, there was no earthly good reason not to wait before transcribing that spell. A few more AP probably would have burned through the total necessary. Keep track of your status effects! Don't let this happen to you! S. Mackie 22:37, 7 June 2007 (BST)

My mother always warned me against pharmaceuticals. But I don't suppose you want to hear I told you so stories...hey did you hear the joke about the stuffed parrot? Schnorrer 23:06, 7 June 2007 (BST)
I did it with a spell that would have cost 360AP on a good day (slight westerly breeze, 26C, couple of fluffy clouds drifting by, birds chirping etc.). But in fairness that was before the lingering hangover effects of the red pill had been documented. So I documented them. In an attempt to save people from a fate similar to mine. But it just didn't work. Ho hum. Nuru nuru 9:07, 8 April 2007 (JST)
It almost helped me. Perhaps my cautionary tale will add weight to it. S. Mackie 19:29, 8 June 2007 (BST)
I wasn't aware of the threshold, what does it amount to?--Solune 21:34, 8 June 2007 (BST)
From the WizardLounge page, the following:
"There isn't a known cap in the mana you can have although it is reported to regenerate more slowly from the range 50-100". Responses logged thereafter seem to differ on this matter, though, so it's probably just careless tracking. And, on my part, careless fact-checking. S. Mackie 22:36, 8 June 2007 (BST)
Yeah that's what I remembered. By the way, why would a wizard ever need AP ? the only thing I need now is mana--Solune 23:22, 8 June 2007 (BST)
 ??? For one thing, it takes AP to transcribe spells, and if you don't cast from a book, you can run out of scrolls pretty fast. It's a strange statement on your part, and I'm not sure I understand. Care to explain? S. Mackie 23:33, 8 June 2007 (BST)
Well my current plans involve making misril blings (20 AP/20 Mana), casting Frankenwiener (24 Mana for only 72 AP, even from a book) or nightingstorm (20 Mana for 1 AP) Spells so the balance is in favor of AP for me. I even spent the last day making potions of accuracy because I didn't have enough mana do go adventuring. It is very possible that I don't spend my mana efficiently though, in which case I'm listening to your advice intently--Solune 13:34, 10 June 2007 (BST)
You're playing with a lot of mana and a lot of AP there, but it looks like you're as well-informed on this as I am. Sounds like a lot of craftsmanship, which is certainly AP intensive. I can't really advise you at this point; it comes down to your discretion. Thanks for the context, though. The only advise I could possibly give it to step away from Cities long enogh for the AP to get high enough on its own, especially if you're building mana at a fast rate, then get back to adventuring after you're done? Even this, however, has its flaws. Wizards aren't known for being spectacular fighters, so we're kinda reliant on our spells... I'll think on this. S. Mackie 17:17, 10 June 2007 (BST)
I hate to say it, but Johnny Rogers disproved my limited mana theory. hendsch 11:29, 9 June 2007 (BST)

Fewer Parties

In view of the fact that record and amp drop rates have been reduced, maybe it's a good idea to reduce the frequency of the parties so once a month or a fortnight, such that people can prepare for specific quests in the area the party is held. Opinions? Corellis 19:55, 2 June 2007 (GMT)

Very, very good idea; in fact I have been suggesting the same thing on IRC a few times. This way we all will get the most out of the parties that are held. This is especially true while we don't know how much the drops have been reduced. It is not that they were very common to begin with. Eusebia 21:52, 2 June 2007 (BST)
Are parties not that much fun then? Maybe there should be better catering. Schnorrer 22:15, 2 June 2007 (BST)
Agreed. I am only going to host parties on special occasions from now on (i.e. my birthday) - this is particularly true since I haven't found a record in months. --JAD 23:16, 2 June 2007 (BST)
Fewer parties, eh? This looks like a job for the Ex-Presidents.
Shticking it to da man,
--Ex-President Gorbachev 09:51, 3 June 2007 (BST)
It would probably go better if you didn't try sticking it to him using Post-It notes. Darksatanic 11:15, 3 June 2007 (BST)

There've only been 7 records dropped on BB to date, and I think that's rather telling, especially if you compare that to the other rare drops. Amps are pretty scarce as well. So less parties then! -- Corellis 01:47, 4 June 2007


Okay, so here's a stupid question: what do you have to do to get shells? I thought it was just gathering sand at a Beach, but I just blew 300 AP gathering lots of sand with no shells to show for it. -- Durkon 01:00, 31 May 2007 (BST)

You need to gather lots of sand, but it doesn't happen every time. Kepler 01:48, 31 May 2007 (BST)
You need to gather either 30 or 300AP at a time to get shells...only salt from 3AP, and shells are rare at 30AP. Spacer one 02:05, 4 June 2007 (BST)

Portal 2

The last couple portals seemed useful, anywhere else people would like to see a portal to? Some options: R'y1eh, space, the zoo, city of gold and lead, unterstuff, the astral plane. -Hbookbinder

I would make use of a R1'Yeh portal. That's almost like a portal to everywhere. --JAD 23:13, 29 May 2007 (BST)
Seconding R1'yeh. Why waste a portal on space or the astral plane when you can get there from R1'yeh, and there's not much going on in the City or the zoo at the moment. -- Thog 23:56, 29 May 2007 (BST)
R1'yeh... YEAH!!! That was silly --Bubba_the_Shy 21:02, 30 May 2007 (BST)
Is it possible to start a firework display on the black beach? - Isambard 00:37, 30 May 2007 (BST)
If yes, then it would probably block the entrance to R1'Yeh, which would be inconvenient. --Bubba_the_Shy 21:02, 30 May 2007 (BST)
Doesn't matter, since they only last a day. I think the black beach would be a good place for the portal to lead, because that's the entrance to R'1yeh. - Isambard 01:20, 31 May 2007 (BST)

Free Press

Some of you will have met me via palantir and be aware of my new publishing enterprise (23rd Floor Darth Mall by NW lift). I'd just like to make a public statement about how unfair it is that Duke Rokimer (and we all know what that's an anagram of) has set up shop next to me with the sole purpose of maligning my product. It's all lies. At "How to get on in Cities" Publishing we stand behind everything we sell. It's not just vanity press. Schnorrer 16:21, 26 May 2007 (BST)

It has, however, been suggested that you are selling 'advice' that has been neither paid for, or solicited with any indication that you were going to sell it on. How would you counter these accusations? Spugmeistress 18:07, 26 May 2007 (BST)
In all fairness, he did suggest that he was selling it. Here's the palantir he sent me:
Hello. As a valued citizen of Cities, you are invited to contribute a tip to the exclusive publishing venture, "How to get on in Cities". Your tip about how to achieve social success, notoriety, prowess, acknowledgement or prosperity will be carefully transcribed by skilled craftsmen onto the finest quality paper.
He mentioned a publishing venture, which certainly implies selling things. Mind you, his prices are rather on the steep side for advice to sell to (quite broke) new players, and the fact that he's selling pigs in a poke (regardless of his generally good intentions) makes buying a bit risky. PotatoEngineer 22:30, 26 May 2007 (BST)
Of course, the discerning player would notice that Schnorrer got a lot of advice from experienced players, for free, just by asking. Players could either then buy that advice from him...or ask people themselves, and see what they get for free.  :) (Besides, the single biggest piece of advice for new players is "Read the wiki. If you don't understand something or don't see it on the wiki, ask questions on the wiki or on IRC" anyway...). --Dragon 00:43, 27 May 2007 (BST)
That's pretty much the advice I gave. +) PotatoEngineer 18:52, 27 May 2007 (BST)
Well if the problem is I'm not paying for the advice, now that my venture is starting to show a profit I could think about offering a commission. Although as well as the tips I am also thinking about branching out - anyone interested in contributing poetry? Schnorrer 20:47, 28 May 2007 (BST) 20:46, 28 May 2007 (BST)
That's also available for free. --Dragon 23:01, 28 May 2007 (BST)
You're not suggesting I steal poetry off the wiki are you? That really would be immoral. No - I'm more interested in the high end of the market - for those wanting to make a unique purchase. All tips are only published once - scouts' honour. Schnorrer 23:17, 28 May 2007 (BST)
No, I'm suggesting that people can already read poetry for free, and aspiring poets already have a forum where more than one person will see their work. Just like people already have an entire wiki and an IRC channel where they can get tips for free, with plenty of people more than willing to supply free tips in said forums. --Dragon 04:59, 29 May 2007 (BST)
Typical - it's okay to make your fortune from trashy imports or proceeds from the murder of innocent animals, but try to make money from intellectual or creative work and people suddenly find their socialist soul. Ah well - I've also been considering taking up a Cities career as a performance artist - but I'm fully expecting to be dragged past the city limits in chains. Schnorrer 08:34, 29 May 2007 (BST)
I think that that punishment's reserved for mimes. Andrewsi 09:51, 29 May 2007 (BST)
Now that's something I'd like to see. A Cities mime. Or perhaps I already have and didn't realise it. Schnorrer 10:00, 29 May 2007 (BST)
I would like to defend Mr Schnorrer here; sure his advice is probably not very useful and can be found elsewhere. But he shows initiative, he tries to find news ways to play cities, and at least he's not forcibly selling you more than 500 new bags--Solune 20:15, 29 May 2007 (BST)
I also think Schnorrer is engaging in a perfectly legitimate method of money making. As soon as I think of a particularly cunning bit of advice, I'll send it off to him. Awhile back I picked up Eusebia's advice from Schnorrer's shop, and if I can follow it, I will be a better player. -Hbookbinder
You send it my way and I'll sell it. Thanks for your support Schnorrer 09:16, 30 May 2007 (BST)
I don't have a clue what this is all about, but it seems a little sketchy to an "experienced" player like me... --JAD 23:13, 29 May 2007 (BST)
Personally, I'm not remotely a laissez-faire economist, but there really does come a time to say "hands off," and he did say "publishing." A little more clarity beforehand might have smoothed things over, yes, but I think the minimum effort was made; from here, I say let the market forces work. If he's wanted and loved, he'll get business. If he's not, well, then it's nobody's problem anyway. I'll neither deliberately patronize nor boycott the shop; I'm not much for memorabilia, and have an awful lot of books to read. :) Mackie the All Self-Important 02:56, 30 May 2007 (BST)
Ah - but have you got any tips for me? (Can't blame a laissez-faire capitalist for trying.) Schnorrer 09:16, 30 May 2007 (BST)
(Well, yes, I can, but you're within stated bounds. ;) Anyway, you already got one from Macksting.) The All Self-Important Mackie 18:26, 30 May 2007 (BST)


I'm sitting on a few shimmery things and was wondering if there was a call for a portal going anywhere in particular? I'll make a portal to the most popular destination suggested (if there turns out to be interest). Some options are R'lyeh, The City of Gold and Lead, The Alternate Ocean (if you can enchant talisman there). 09:15, 22 May 2007 (BST)

My vote is for the Alternate Ocean. If you can't make a talisman there, just build a bridge or start a fireworks display, and enchant one on that. - Isambard 12:22, 22 May 2007 (BST)
seconded - density 10:10, 22 May 2007 (EST)
thirded - Tulk
forthed - jennyann
I imagine once/if the party gets started in Oz, people would appreciate a portal there Spugmeistress 16:00, 22 May 2007 (BST)

The portal is open as of this timestamp. BYOS. Hbookbinder 00:04, 24 May 2007 (BST)

Er, from where to where? -- Thog 00:13, 24 May 2007 (BST)
From one square east of the party in oz to the alternate ocean. Theendisnigh 09:17, 24 May 2007 (BST)
Remember, folks, the portal is one-way. The only way back is to break a talisman (which puts you in the 'Kingdom, not Oz), and then to be re-summoned to the party. I suggest working in teams. Have at least one person of your team stay at the party, while other team members go into the portal. When they're done, and have broken their talismans, they can be chain-summoned back to the party. Then the remaining team members can take their turn. --Greycat 13:38, 24 May 2007 (BST)

MasterPete Where Art Thou

Namorson was amazed to receive a New Cabinet from Armourer MasterPete. However, He had to wonder if MasterPete might have been standing too close to the flames, or perhaps using too much solvent in an enclosed room and was effected by fumes. Namorson wondered if MasterPete intended to give him the New Cabinet, or if it was supposed to go to a paying customer. He even tried to Palantir him, either thanking him and offering his 2nd unborn child, or to return the Cabinet if it was indeed a mistake. Alas, MasterPete does not have a palantir. MasterPete, if you read this, have you simply lost your palantir(s), or have you retired from the game (which might explain such a surprising and unexpected gift. PAYG me if you did hand me the cabinet accidentally --Namorson 06:04, 22 May 2007 (BST)

MasterPete is currently on the 13th floor of the mall. I stumbled across him while searching for nonexistant bowling alleys, and informed him that you were trying to reach him here. Random4518 04:05, 23 May 2007 (BST)
retired player, just having a bit of fun. I made i think 6 new cabinets and handed them out to anyone i could find. Happy act of random kindness. - masterpete

Hey, neat! Namorson, sounds like you get to enjoy your cabinet. Doc Mackie 18:39, 23 May 2007 (BST)

Wow! Thanks a lot, MasterPete! --Namorson 21:24, 23 May 2007

CDs and Spellz

hiya, this is not a complaint or a criticism of cities. Does anyone else think that monsters drop too many spells and CDs that we are never going to use. Stones, feathers, plantirs and other junk gets used in some way, but the spells and CDs are just collecting dust. Also, I have opened Treasure Chests to find CDs again and again, which might have seemed great when CDs first came into the game, but now I have too many spells and CDs that I can never use. Can you sell them anywhere? YFM 2223 10 May 2007

Hello GL's, how about a possibility to make modern art or even postmodern fashion items from unused CDs? Eusebia 23:31, 10 May 2007 (BST)
Or perhaps just a shop to sell them back, like with Caroline's. I would recommend much lower prices than 5000 each, or drop spells and CD's in less instances.
Actually, you can trade spells to wizards (or give them as gifts / thanks) so I don't have a problem with that. CDs? Well they need to drop sometime. Perhaps adding a CD player to the universe? :) Phw
Speaking of wizards and spells, maybe the wizards, and heck whoever else wants a second trading post for such, could set up a page. A Spell Exchange, much like the CD exchange.
As far as the CDs go, feel free to post any decent collections on the CD Exchange page. If somebody could go back and turn that reference to a link, that'd be much appreciated. Doc Mackie the All Self-Important 06:53, 22 May 2007 (BST)
Macksting: done. And trading is fine, but the problem is that one of each CD is sufficient for people's needs, so all but the rarest CDs lose all value since they just pile up. I could go give an aspiring wizard one of my 30 (no joke) copies of 'Like I Love You,' but odds are they already have it, and if they don't they could pick it up for a whopping 5gp at the markets. There have certainly been useless items in Cities before, but in this case it's almost an entire class of items that is becoming worthless. CDs do seem to need another use. (Hmm, my dogbot needs a CD player... ;) ). As for spells, I don't really mind when they accumulate, since I can sell off many of them (albeit for cheap), and hold onto a lot of the good ones for when I eventually go back to wizarding. --Dragon 08:04, 22 May 2007 (BST)
Heh! I'll have to do some more business with y'all, then, 'cause I'm no longer Doc! Just traded in military service, nobility, and my doctorate for the shaky, self-made destiny of an Apprentice, shortly Shaman-bound. macksting 19:48, 24 May 2007 (BST)

Websense Strikes Again!

Our companies web filter has set its sights on Cities yet again. Just yesterday I was able enjoy a few 5 minute breaks playing Cities. But I sign on today, and there are no background graphics. Websense did not block the controls on the game page, but it blocked the graphics. Websense did not block the login screen, but it blocked the logout screen.

Is anyone else a victim of their corporate web filter? And can the Great Lords change the website name to http://www.importantengineeringresource.com?

Get back to work, slave! We own you. -- The conglomerate corporations of our time.
I can't play at all from work. :( Rhapsodie
I work in state government. I play from work whenever I have AP =] -Jon 15:36, 12 May 2007 (BST)

Monster respawn rates

I've been to Gorgan Island a couple times now. In fact, the first time I was there, I waited for about 3-4 days, and never saw the Gorgan. The second time I was there -- also, no Gorgan. I didn't wait around. Now, the Gorgan is on my trophy case kill list, and I really don't know what it's going to take to find her, let alone kill her, whenever I get back to earth....

Speaking of which, I've been up in space for 2 days now, desperately trying to find those last 2 space invaders (air and fire). I've even started killing off some of the earth worms (there are hundreds of them), hoping that by freeing some of the terrain, I might increase the chances of monsters spawning there. Of course, I'm probably just a sucker, sacrificing my own AP for the benefit of other people, who will then take the space invaders from me and open more cans of worms just for spite. (I even tried the Tarot deck, which lists two "Space Invader" choices. Both of them failed.)

I think perhaps all searches in space fail because of the continuous nature of ...well... space in that place. Droll 22:53, 9 May 2007 (BST)

It seems to me (although I'm neither a Cities veteran nor an expert) that the respawn rates on the monsters in certain areas were established when the number of active players was rather smaller than it is now. Is there a chance we could petition the great lords to increase some of them? I know there's some precedent, in the form of the Giant, whom I've killed a couple times myself. --Greycat 14:53, 8 May 2007 (BST)

I'm in SPace too and there are a lot of worms, but maybe the SPace Invaders were killed by other people doing the cabnet quest. I heard that you can't talk to the tarot in space 7of9
I hate cans of worms with a fiery passion. But I digress. The best way to bag the Gorgan is to get yourself a few timewarps. If you stand in the center of the gorgans palace and use one, I estimate you get a gorgan to spawn about 80% of the time. (Timewarps drop from Rocky Horrors, or can be made by shamans). The tarot deck doesn't work in space to tell you where the monsters are, but it does tell you if they exist or not. If there are two entries for space invaders, that means two alignments are currently in existance and two aren't. After suffering a similar fate on my first trip to space, a waited until all 4 were present in the Tarot before making a return trip. hendsch 15:31, 8 May 2007 (BST)
As a related question, does anyone know if RockyHorrors are still bugged, or do they now take kinky fashion into account again? -- Thog 15:48, 8 May 2007 (BST)
Yes, Rockyhorrors are fixed. While I am certainly in favor of faster respawn in almost all areas of the game, you just have to be patient. I've done my share of waiting for the gorgan, and it's annoying, but you can generally find one if you log on at odd times (e.g. mid-afternoon game time). I do hope that respawn rates are shortened, but until then you'll just have to do what we all do - sit there and hit "refresh." :) JAD
The Gorgan respawn rate was shortened a while back IIRC. It's not exactly fixed, but it has some chance of respawning every 8(?) hours now, so without a time warp if you check in a few times a day odds are decent that it'll spawn in one day. (Of course, someone else could just come by and kill it, with or without time warps....) As for Space, it's been worm-infested for a while, and it annoys me too. People really need to clean up after themselves. If you're asteroid-farming, then there's 12 times the possibility for asteroids to respawn if you kill all the worms after you're done... --Dragon 17:53, 8 May 2007 (BST)
That's very interesting and useful, hendsch. I didn't know the Tarot omits monsters that are currently extinct. As of a few seconds ago, the Tarot is showing absolutely no space invaders of any alignment, so I know that wandering around looking for one would be a waste of my AP. I'll force someone else to wander around the cold, empty (except for worms) depths of space, hopefully causing space invaders to spawn somewhere they don't see.... --Greycat 01:18, 9 May 2007 (BST)
They won't show up on Tarot until someone walks past one. Given current circumstances, they won't be Tarotable for a while because people kill them as soon as they find one (although I won't kill the ones I've already trophied). - Isambard 01:54, 9 May 2007 (BST)

Someone's casting spells on me

So a few times now at the current party I've had spells cast on me - the message log doesn't specify which spell, and I only noticed the first time because about 50AP later, I got the "a spell has worn off" message. Any ideas what this is likely to be? --Gabor Kiss 14:27, 4 May 2007 (BST)

I've seen Nightingbreeze twice at the party now. It could just be that you missed the "Nightingbreeze Spell has cast a spell on you." message. PotatoEngineer 14:37, 4 May 2007 (BST)
Yeah I think that was it. "When cast, the following spells effect everyone on the caster’s square." So this is just some generous ppl at the party?

Old Jokes

Being relatively new to Cities, I missed out on some of the early events. I've come across references to mosquitos and malaria, fireflies, and vast volcanic eruptions that heralded the opening of new areas, but I can't always find out what actually happened. I'd love it if someone could tell me what the big deal about the mosquito and firefly was. It would be even better if these events(?) were recorded somewhere so every new whippersnapper like myself doesn't need to bother their elders to discover the rich history of their adopted home.

Hmm, that was laying it on pretty thick, so I'll get to the point. I want to create a page for that on the wiki, but can't come up with a good name. Here's a few that I thought of so far:

  • Old Events (already taken)
  • Old Jokes (except sometimes they're not jokes)
  • The Rocking Chair (meh)
  • The Front Porch (double meh)
  • Old Folks Home (I like it but don't know if anyone else would want to be associated with it.) :)

...you get the idea. Any suggestions? -Scrumbucket 14:52, 1 May 2007 (BST)

  • The All-Cities Summarize Proust Competition. Gonzometro 16:10, 1 May 2007 (BST)
You mean some kind of History Timeline like this? --TerrorRemedy 16:16, 1 May 2007 (BST)
An Oral History of the 'Kingdom of the Four Cities.
You can probably find quite a lot of stuff in the history of this page and the current events page. Plus interviewing the old-timers on IRC, of course. From about November 2005, I can also help with when stuff went into the code-base, as we'll have that history in the source repository (I think). Darksatanic 16:51, 1 May 2007 (BST)
I can help out with the events since I've been here (late Jan '06...which was right after the 'king was overthrown by the Great Lords, and near the end of the malaria outbreak. Ah, those were simpler days, and... ;) ) If someone creates the page with either questions, or a rough outline, I'll fill in gaps where I can (and when I have time). --Dragon 04:14, 2 May 2007 (BST)
Same here, I joined in Dec 05 and it started raining, Cities flooded caused mud which caused mosquitos which caused the malaria. Its never rained since. Timekeeper 10:43, 2 May 2007 (BST)

Important Events in Cities. I'm a little fuzzy on whens and even order in some cases:

  1. Resting at monasteries no longer improves caffeine tolerance.
  2. Dragon blood effects get progressively worse the more you take.
  3. Triffid stings effects get worse the more you take, eventually hurting AP regen time.
  4. Red Bull causes caffeine crash as often as it gives AP, lowers caffeine tolerance. Sea gulls drops modified.
  5. Kahlua and Cream no longer gives AP.
  6. Midas wand effects nerfed.
  7. Golden Gun break rate increased.
  8. Bet it all! no longer an option at casinos.
  9. Prices at Seb's Stuff increased (*sob*)
I don't recall specifically, but in the category of nerf/exploit I think there used to be NO LIMIT on the number of spice you could take at one time (limit now is 12), and there was no spice tolerance. But I also think that Sand Worms were more rare and that (maybe) they dropped spice less often. The most I ever took was probably 20 or 30, but if you could have acquired 100, you would have gotten 54,500 AP! Droll 15:37, 4 May 2007 (BST)

I guess there were a bunch of quests and regions added, too. hendsch 17:13, 1 May 2007 (BST)

Wow, aren't you bitter... "List of nerfings in Cities," perhaps? (You forgot pirate hats and boat movement costs...) --Dragon 04:14, 2 May 2007 (BST)
More a list of exploits that have been closed. Pirate hat should be there, too. The only thing I'm still bitter about was the old treasure hunt. As soon as you did earth initiation, it gave you a list of 30 things and said you needed 25 (I think) in order to be taught to take less damage. Then once you collected the items and tried to complete the quest, it said the quest was still under construction. hendsch 10:28, 2 May 2007 (BST)
Wasn't there a time when the Dragon Passes weren't open, or something like that? When it was just the paths between the four functional cities, possibly plus the castle? I could be wrong. Memory fails.
I do know that, at one time, the North and the Forest and the Desert didn't exist. Nor did overheating or freezing. And, at one time, frostbite cost permanent HP, not temporary. And the KOT was recognized in-game, like, at some point. I can't seem to find a date on the creation of the Palace. (I was on when it happened, I think.)
Edit: See, other people had already covered all the important stuff I could think of, so I thought of the North, the Forest, the South, and the stuff directly related to me. Doc Mackie 11:00, 2 May 2007 (BST)
I remember the rain - the road was turned to water in places and we couldn't use the taxi service. There were only four places to go (the 4 cities) and so it was really annoying that the taxis weren't running7of9
I remember making a killing out of welly sales :) Moj 23:38, 2 May 2007 (BST)
I remember making a killing off of jars of plum jam. There was a really large number of Fire players (I knew there would be; should I write a thesis on why, independent of any questions of Fire-based game advantages?) and rather few Air players, so the service involved was in demand. Doc Mackie 08:57, 3 May 2007 (BST)
I think part of it was because the radio button defaulted to 'fire' (iirc :). That and fire /always/ sounds nifty. Moj 09:42, 3 May 2007 (BST)
A love of fire does seem to be a part of the culture. Hadn't thought about the radio button, as I've only ever set up one character, and belligerently chose the path less traveled with Air. Doc Mackie 20:01, 3 May 2007 (BST)
I thought it always started with "Earth", which was the second-largest alignment represented. Water was always the smallest, with air not much larger. Darksatanic 15:51, 4 May 2007 (BST)
I figured more people ended up firey because of the initial to-hit bonus. Fire players had an easier time up front (followed closely by Earth players, with their initial HP bonus). -- Thog 17:27, 4 May 2007 (BST)

I've started a history page: HistoryoftheWorld-PartI So far I've just put the "New Stuff" page in reverse order. Please add stories, etc.

Moving to the Mall

I don't know whether to or not, so what are other people's opinions about moving and staying put? 7of9 1549 Friday 27 April 2007

Avoid the mass mall commercialism! Support your local independent retailer! Particularly if they happen to be me.  :) Seriously, I don't currently have any plans to move to the Mall, but then again I have a fairly prime location in Fire City. I could see a lot of the random roadside shops moving there, particularly if the rumors of perks such as XML feeds become true. That said, it's rather a pain to move if you've got a large shop with a bunch of stuff... --Dragon 18:09, 27 April 2007 (BST)
Amen. I'm very skeptical about any kind of move because of the time spent to re-price it all and the themed floors don't lend themselves very well to the large shops. -Jon 18:33, 27 April 2007 (BST)
News from the 'king.
<elseware> I'm going to add an XML interface for shops  
<elseware> but only those in the mall

As a consumer, I gotta say that those themed floors are going to be getting some of my business. It's just too convenient, being able to get a good idea where to find what I'm looking for. Besides, I actually look forward to fighting zombies.
Besides, your shop won't only be accessible from, say, Fire City, but also from Oz! Doc Mackie 20:33, 27 April 2007 (BST)

I think I've been convinced now to move location. Can someone please briefly explain what an XML code is... 7of9
The XML stuff will be a direct web-accessible view of some in-game data (in this case, the contents, prices and locations of the shops in the mall). From that, anyone will be able to take that data and present it in some useful format. As an example, see Citiesberg, or Questr, or the CQP. Darksatanic 22:07, 27 April 2007 (BST)

The Mall has been great for business. At the mo though there seems to be some problems if you own a shop For example: someone sold me 14 roc rocks(which weren't for sale, purchase only), but when I managed my shop they had disappeared into the ether! The same with a number of other items. I'm paying out gold for nothing! Anyone else had problems? 02/06/2007 Vladimir!

Also, all those Mothers, Zombies and rats are a bit of a disadvantage for the less experienced - this might be a bit of a problem if they are your main clientele. Schnorrer 18:58, 4 June 2007 (BST)

Informal Testimonial Poll: Party Hopping

I'm a little curious. It seems parties are immensely popular, and for the most part I can understand why; certainly I consider them worth my while for most purposes. However, because the vast majority of parties are held in the 'Kingdom area, keeping to a party can be very restrictive. I'm not asking for the parties to be moved; if I have a problem with it, I can arrange my own, right?
No, basically, I'm just asking if there are others who have, like myself, deliberately pulled themselves away from party hopping because they found it decreased their enjoyment of the game. Note that I'm primarily asking about parties before trading at them was eliminated, and am not talking about long page loads or difficulty scanning for movement. Just asking whether or not the party hopping process, or sticking to parties as much as possible, was getting boring to anybody else. Doc Mackie 22:22, 26 April 2007 (BST)

From my point of view, Cities isn't a race. I'm not trying to gather as much AP as possible in order to do everything really quickly. Indeed, by taking my time it means that I won't run out of quests and that I can feel free to go off and do something else for a bit without jeopardising any of my goals. So in that respect, I will stock up on AP at a party if I happen to be near one, but for the most part I'll just keep on doing my own thing and leaving the revellers to their merry-making. :-) -Stelio 23:38, 26 April 2007 (BST)
Yeah, I'm with Stelio on this. I only join parties if they happen to be in an area I'm already planning to be at for a week. Generally I only hit up about one party a month. And besides, I generally feel that parties decrease my quest progress due to being restricted to one area, although it was nice doing the Fortune Teller quest when there happened to be a party in Earth City. Sir Garry 23:57, 26 April 2007 (BST)
I've missed a few parties because they were inconvenient for what I wanted to do, but then again, I've also used parties in non-'Kingdom places as an excuse to do stuff in that area, for example the current party means I can use up all my magic beans in the Satanic Gardens, do a few island type quests and stock up on seaweed fronds. It's a fine call between the amount of AP you gain from the double regen, and the amount you end up spending by keeping on travelling forward and back to the party. Spugmeistress 00:11, 27 April 2007 (BST)
Okay, so I'm not alone. Heh. I'm glad they're around, no question, and the dependability of roughly one party a week is very nice... but yeah, I've missed as many as two in a row deliberately staying away from them just 'cause I was tired of being tied down. Great time to do a cavern quest. :) Doc Mackie 08:17, 27 April 2007 (BST)
If I could max out my AP in a day or so with or without a party, I think I'd make less effort to get to them. Having an insanely high maxAP, I try to spend every single moment of non-playing time at a party. Enchanted talismans are my preferred method of concentrating my efforts to a specific locale. -Jon 11:56, 27 April 2007 (BST)
I generally do the same thing. To some extent, I've found that parties tie me down--but enchanted talismans allow me to spend AP in whatever area I choose, and still spend most of my time at the party. This is why I prefer parties to be near major cities--it's much easier to get back to after spending AP somewhere else. It does take a chunk of AP to enchant a new talisman every day, and of course I'd like to avoid that if possible--but the double AP regeneration more than makes up for it. --Dragon 18:14, 27 April 2007 (BST)
I've only been to a few parties, mostly because when one starts up, it's either a slog to get to (without requesting summons from people), or it's just not where I want to be at the time. I often find it useful *not* to have the double AP regen, so that I can go for a couple of days without playing and still get all the AP. :) Darksatanic 12:14, 27 April 2007 (BST)
As a wizard, I always hung out at parties. With all the various teleportation options, it was relatively easy to get anywhere you want (and get back). I hope the level 3 wizard quest opens soon so I can switch back. hendsch 13:27, 27 April 2007 (BST)
skold spends more time at parties than I do. He tends to do more bulk AP spending (like the big weapon he's making, cabinetry, etc). I party when the mood strikes or I don't know what to do next. The AP is nice, but I tend to squander it while partying. When I'm away from a party I get things done. Right now I really should be at a party as I'm making 5 or 6 fur coats. Anyone want a cheap fur coat?density 14:09, 27 April 2007 (BST)
And to think. I'm about to lower my AP regen delay. Doc Mackie 08:18, 2 May 2007 (BST)

From IRC:

<Glamdring> Mrrf. 24 hours before I've nearly maxed my AP, which seems the most efficient way to use 
parties while on AP-intensives quests.
<Glamdring> Sorry, just wanted to grouse about the inavailability of my character.
<Glamdring> I'm on the 14th totem of 24, have a talisman to it, but I feel I shouldn't use it until  
I can make a decent burst of activity out of it.
* stoborhsima has left #cities
<Snarfer> I think the most efficient use for parties is if you can be online when max ap hits (or 
shortly before)
<Glamdring> Snarfer: I'll be available anywhere from 23 to 25 hours from now, and my leeway is 26 
<Glamdring> So yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about.

Doc Mackie 20:53, 2 May 2007 (BST)

New Etiquette for Summoning To Parties

What should be the new etiquette for summoning to parties given that they don't function as markets any more? It is inconvienient to wait for your summoner to come back so you can arrange a location to meet just to give the summon stone back. I propose that the new rule is just summon someone else using the summon stone you got. Poleris

I think this makes a lot of sense. As a plus, it should increase the rate the the summoning queue gets cleared - I've seen some parties where no one is summoning people on the list. -- Thog 01:04, 27 April 2007 (BST)
I was the last name on the list when I was summoned, so I summoned the person who summoned me to return the stone (even though he was already on the same square). hendsch 13:17, 27 April 2007 (BST)
I don't know if summoning the person who summoned you is a good idea unless they asked for it. This system would be great if people paid it heed, but it doesn't really work out, especially for people who go on summoning sprees. Personally, I have 6 summon stones at the start of this party, and now I have 2. $#)@(%&#@ Corellis 20:23, 27 April 2007 (GMT)
Let such efforts not be thankless. In fact, although you did not have opportunity or request to summon my character, your willingness to do so warms my heart and comforts me, so thank you. In the future, I may ask for your summons. Rest assured that I shall make effort to return your stone. Doc Mackie 20:36, 27 April 2007 (BST)
I would say that when you're low on stones, just stop summoning. Let the people you summoned do the summoning. :) Eventually the favor will come back to you and you'll get summoned. Poleris 02:09, 28 April 2007 (BST)
Note: I would only summon the person back after confirming they are still on the party square. hendsch 20:43, 27 April 2007 (BST)
I don't think that's a good idea, regardless. You summon them away, return the stone, but then they aren't at the party and regenerating AP, as they probably want to be doing. Poleris 02:09, 28 April 2007 (BST)
But if I summon them onto the party square they were on in the first place, then they get the stone at the end of it. The downside is that if the stone cracks, they get a cracked stone for their efforts. Rhapsodie 02:47, 28 April 2007 (BST)

This conversation is heartwarming because there are good-natured people involved, unlike one of my summons who's ignored my palantirs and what I've said/shouted, and hasn't summoned anyone (from what I can tell) in spite of being active. Ultimately it all depends on the summoner, so I guess if you want to keep your summon stone or be summoned in return, you might want to PAYG your summons. ;) -- Corellis 02:23, 28 April 2007 (GMT)

Alchemy: When is it Not Useless?

Why are we using triple equal signs rather than double?
Ne'er mind. So, at what point, what number of items, does an Alchemist's Shop become a practical use of AP for purposes of cash? Surely somebody has enough Empty Mugs to make it a worthwhile way to get rid of them. (Although it would be cool if you could smash them.) 20:25, 22 April 2007 (BST)

Alchemy was far more useful when 1000 gold pieces was actually quite a lot. In this era of inflation, it's far, far less useful. PotatoEngineer 01:42, 23 April 2007 (BST)
I like empty mugs because when I grow coffee I brew it myself. But I personally use alchemists to get rid of the odd instrument not of my alignment. It's either that or dump them because they AH so cheaply I get no profit from the sale! Rhapsodie 11:21, 23 April 2007 (BST)
You can turn a pound of poop into a golden piece!
I always hoped so.
Rhapsodie, I have one issue with that. Could you possibly grow enough coffee to fill 200+, even 300+ mugs? Doc Mackie 20:10, 23 April 2007 (BST)
It would probably be better to return the empty mugs for deposit. I think the alchemist got nerfed a bit around the time the KOT was talking about pooling their junk items together to raise cash. hendsch 20:29, 23 April 2007 (BST)
It's been worked out, though, that they're just not that profitable per AP spent. You can only return them one at a time, for one thing. Doc Mackie 20:40, 23 April 2007 (BST)
Hehe, I wish! But I'm only talking about what I do myself, and I don't have anywhere near that many empty mugs! Rhapsodie
I'd agree with PE. Alchemy might only be worth it from a GP-per-AP perspective if you can "convert all" of something you have thousands of...but by the time you have thousands of any item other than GP, you probably don't care about a couple of thousand gold, and have easier ways to get it anyway. (This is why my script disables them by default--I had a feature request from someone else who believed it was useless, and didn't want to give things to an Alchemist accidentally.) --Dragon 04:01, 24 April 2007 (BST)
You underestimate, perhaps, the possibility of accruing thousands of a useless item? ;) Nah, you're probably right. However, I think your own opinion, Dragon, would be most useful to me. What would you estimate is the threshold at which it would be worth your time? Doc Mackie 04:41, 24 April 2007 (BST)
I really don't know what a useful threshhold would be for me. I just glanced over my rather daunting inventory, and I have over 1000 of several items. Some of these are not useless (saltpetre, metal bits), so I'd rule them out. IIRC it's 20AP to convert "all" of something, and you get 1 piece of gold for each. Frankly, I just wouldn't bother at all for 1-2000gp--that leaves out quite a few of my useless items (blubber, shark meat, spiky ninja throwing stars). There are only a few things I noticed that were both useless and I had in great enough quantity to give me a decent amount of money--kraken meat (currently 7200ish), feathers (8600+), and units of sand (currently 10k-ish). None of these quantities is enough to really impress me--and if I needed the money, there are much easier ways I could get that amount of money (or more)--selling books to Caroline's, cleaning out all the armourer shops by flooding the Cities economy's leather supply, etc.  :) And I'd only bother with those if I were hard up for cash. So I don't foresee myself using alchemists...ever...in their present state--it's far more worth my while to spend my AP hunting monsters, accumulating even more useless junk, but some good stuff (which I can then sell for more money than I'd get from an alchemist). Meanwhile, I can entertain myself with thoughts of giant sand castles and finding a random newbie at a trading post and giving them 1000 throwing stars.  :) --Dragon 06:28, 24 April 2007 (BST)

Nuffin to do - Need a New Career

It seems Cities is losing its appeal for me. The three career paths are unappealing, with the new Knights quest just being the old Creature Survey with the names changed and fightin' involved. The Armours and Wizards seem to be a little too exclusive/elite/difficult to achieve, which is good but just makes them unappealing to me. I've been wracking my brain to come up with a fourth career idea to pitch at the GL's but with no success. So we have Fightin', Makin' and Magicin'; Thievin' is a career any other career can do. I've considered Sailin' but I can't get a grip on how to make it different... I'm at a bit of a loss otherwise. Halp! PlanetNiles 14:29, 21 April 2007 (BST)

Maybe they could make it so players can play as monsters. Like, a rogue monster, so you wouldn't be attacking other players, but you'd be able to choose what monster you wanted to be, and different monsters would have different bonuses. Unstenk 16:19, 21 April 2007 (BST)
Sounds a little like a few wizard spells. I'd rather see that sailor idea improved upon, myself; maybe throw a couple more rivers into the landmass. (Oh catarstrophe.) I'll be thinking about all this, though.
Even so, you really should give wizarding a shot. Collect more CDs and all that. I've got all but two, one of which I'll have to fight morphei for. If you've need of spares, you can ask; more magi means more stuff for magi, so I tend to bargain fairly. For my part, my major career is as a Knight of the Order of Tubthumping. I'd recommend it, but while numbers are crucial, work is short. Join if you like; fulfillment is few and far between. Doc Mackie19:46, 21 April 2007 (BST)
Doc, it's me Earl RedlacSelin, KOT PlanetNiles 09:17, 22 April 2007 (BST)
Ah hell! If I'd noticed that, I wouldn't have said anything about negotiating prices; my spare CDs are free to KOT members. Doc Mackie 10:03, 22 April 2007 (BST)
I agree with the good Doctor about the Magick path. I collected all the CD's so I could go straight to Shaman (I hold the IRC-Official record of 20 minutes spent as an Apprentice) and I've found it to be a real interesting change, with very different challenges but a lot of rewards. (Cha-ching!) Consider giving it a shot. -- Sertularian 21:06, 21 April 2007 (BST)
It's also worth mentioning that I expect the number of copies of "You Spin Me Round" to skyrocket very soon, given how many dukes are joining the military (which means most of them will be hunting Morpheus). In other words, becoming a Shaman should be much less painful. -- Thog 22:34, 21 April 2007 (BST)
That said, my trip to the north yielded no copies of Your Disco Needs You. It wasn't a short visit, either. Anybody know where a guy could get a copy? Doc Mackie03:51, 22 April 2007 (BST)
Yes. My inventory... lets talk ;) Phw 04:40, 22 April 2007 (BST)
Back on the original question, there's a few things I've had kicking around in my head that could be worked into the game - a merchant class or a cleric. The cleric idea is pretty simple - more better healing and some spells. The merchant class I have some broader ideas about - no damage multiplier but provide a built in shop discount (nothing huge and unbalancing, but enough that buying things like talismans at a shop and re-selling them at your own for the same price could give you some degree of profit. Maybe 25% to help offset the amount taken out in taxes) in addition to stacking with hat discounts, a transport that can only travel on roads (trade routes good - wagon wheels in swamp bad) and is only equippable by this class. the ability to open more than one shop, but the same limitations on activity at those shops (and of course, having to travel around to see how they're doing). Obviously neither of these classes are necessary, but there's some ideas. Oh, and a sailor class could just plain old be better at operating a boat (-1 movement modifer on them), better at fighting sea monsters and pirates (+1 damage while on a boat or something), provide safe passage between ports. This could also be done by another class with enough AP and a boat, but if the sailor had a menu of ports and total AP cost to get there, maybe he could be allowed to go into negative AP while his passengers were free to leave the boat. This creates a possibility of abuse with mules and would have to be done with care. I dunno. That's all my brain can work on a Sunday morning. -Jon 14:22, 22 April 2007 (BST)
Not commenting on the merchant class idea, but on the trading wagon: any wagon has GOT to take four Fire stones in it's construction. Hey, who's to say the GL have a corner on puns? -- Thog 15:20, 22 April 2007 (BST)
IMHO a discount that stacks with hats is asking for trouble. You of all people should know about the possibilities that exist if one has a large discount. 25% plus a hat is huge. Essentially, non-merchants wouldn't be able to compete for any item that is buyable in-game, since merchants could always get it for a lower price. Same thing with providing some other way to offset the inherent loss of shops (e.g. a Tax Voucher or Duty-Free Shop Permit)--people who have this can undercut people without it, every single time. The way I see it, armourers are somewhat merchantlike already, in fact if not in theme. They have a harder time killing things (and can't compensate with combat spells like wizards can), but other players trade them stuff for the goods only they can make. They even have a trade guild now! --Dragon 17:51, 22 April 2007 (BST)
What if it didn't stack with hats but the merchant always had the discount, it wasn't stealable and they could still be summoned because... no hat. They could get the larger of their merchant or any hat bonus. Just a thought! Rhapsodie 11:13, 23 April 2007 (BST)
Dragon - yeah, that occurred to me some time after I had posted this. A discount like that plus a pirate hat is 75% off which is almost back to pirate hats before my *ahem* incident. Another thought I had was a discounted tax, but involving some huge upfront payment for a license. If you had to pay a million GP to join the class (start up funds for a new business ain't cheap!) or something else to offset what could be saved. In the end, if such a class were developed, I'd go back and change my vote to no discount just for being a merchant, maybe a quest for small incremental discounts (something like Hard Knocks with exponential costs, but with 1-2% discounts per level completed) or like Rhapsodie suggested, one or the other but nothing stackable. -Jon 12:51, 23 April 2007 (BST)
Could have a new Water level (sorry), 'Shrink'. People could go to them to deal with their Issues instead of freaking other players out. A Shrink may also be able to help with drug or alcohol abuse, as well as dispense drugs. Dendrast 03:27, 30 April 2007 (BST)

Infosec 24-26 Apr 2007, London

Is anyone from Cities going to be at Infosec this year?

  • jmb expecting to go on Thursday. I won one of the codebreaking challenges on their website, so expecting to be named and shamed at the Hackers' Panel keynote on that day...

Everyone likes silly Internet polls, right?

Well, now Cities has one. Fill it out (and/or add to it) sometime when you're out of AP. --Dragon 07:58, 15 April 2007 (BST)

nerfed or bug

my alt was going treasure hunting in the fire swamp and he didnt want to fight, becuase he sucks, and came across a 26 bees, and he put on the cloak of invisblty and tried the clock to, and yet none made him invisble, but still raised the ap cost, i dont know is this is a bug or just nerfed bobtheslayer 00:31, 14 April 2007 (BST)

.......... i was wearing a hat.... thank you sert. bobtheslayer 00:38, 14 April 2007 (BST)

Slashed Dow??

Citiesberg [[1]] hasn’t refreshed its data for a while now. Been stuck with the same prices for days. A shame indeed. Nuru nuru 09:39, 13 April 2007 (JST)

Doesn't appear to be CB's fault. If you click on the market feed links, they say "Temporarily offline". -- Thog 05:49, 13 April 2007 (BST)
So they do. Ho hum. Nuru nuru 12:53, 14 April 2007 (JST)
Ello it's back. Good-o. Nuru nuru 19:04, 18 April 2007 (JST)

Knitting Circle 2

I successfully organised a knitting circle in November last year (culminating in all five particpants gaining a full set of woollies for a significant AP saving). It's time for a second go! I plan to run it at a Free Party (preferably in the 'Kingdom) by the end of April. If you're interested in joining in so that you too can explore the Frozen North, sign up on the project page. :-D -Stelio 01:30, 11 April 2007 (BST)

Cash Cow??

You attack the Cow.
You cause 8 points of damage, and receive 16 experience.
You slay the Cow.
You gain 20000 Gold Pieces.

-Baron Calculon

Nice drop. Syagrius 02:20, 9 April 2007 (BST)
Yeah, a small fraction of cows are cash cows (and that is indeed the pun). --Dragon 02:39, 9 April 2007 (BST)

wizard foo?

what's this background? is that a title? he stinks. Wizard foo density 14:14, 7 April 2007 (BST)

That is wiz.jpg, possibly the background for the third level of the wizard class. Random4518 16:00, 7 April 2007 (BST)
I'm pretty sure "wizard" is the title for a 3rd-level wizard. foo is one of Elseware's test characters (not one of his "real" characters), so it's not surprising to see him with abilities that may not be generally available yet. (Note that he doesn't, for example, appear on any of the score tables.) --Dragon 16:05, 7 April 2007 (BST)
Has anyone gone back down to Bleak Island to see if Dr. Em's quest is open now? Perhaps Elseware is being uncharacteristically subtle :-) -- Thog 16:14, 7 April 2007 (BST)
Evil Dr. Em: An army of collared virgin boys are carrying box after box of Highlander kipple 
into the castle. Rumour has it the Evil Dr Em knows the secret to level 3 wizardry but she tells you 
to piss off so that a bit confusing. Maybe you should come back later.
As of right now, that's a negatron. I'll stick around to see if it changes.Gonzometro 16:33, 7 April 2007 (BST)
Awww, and here I was hoping that Level3 Wizard would have the Title "Mage". At least that way, there would be clarity between the Wizard class and a Wizard status. --Bubba_the_Shy 20:43, 7 April 2007 (BST)
It's the armourer thing all over again. If another class is introduced, we should give it a more obscure name that couldn't possibly also be the name of a status. For example, armourers and wizards should've been stuffmakers and spellcasters respectively. - Isambard 08:41, 8 April 2007 (BST)

copperisblue wants to give you...

what is the best way to distribute wealth to those in need of it? I'm heading to retirement, and have a large amount of wealth to will out to the world. I would like to give it to those in need. But I don't know how. Give me your suggestions.

First, though, I've bagged up some leather. 4 bags of 54 pieces of leather. If you're an armorer wanting to complete the blue price quest (but have no leather to do it with) write me a note on my discussion page and tell me why you deserve it. The top 4 people of my choice will get it. You've got one week.

Second, I've got one giant bag of spells. I'll give it to one novice wizard-to-be. Make your plea worthy!

Thirdly, here is my inventory: http://cities.totl.net/cgi-bin/invent?username=copperisblue

Thanks for your help Copperisblue 01:12, 6 April 2007 (BST)

ok, So I'm at the New Trading Post in Air City. With the worms. And I'm giving things away. But perhaps I've not given you anything? How bout this. I'll raffle off my Copper Axe (treeman bane), Furious Box (Jaberwock Bane), Dragon Stone, and Brighthelm rock on Saturday. To enter the raffle, give me your ticket. Your ticket would be a note with your name in the title. Come over and tell me what else you want.Copperisblue 21:19, 12 April 2007 (BST)

Please don't* boycott the Hammered Anvil Society

The Hammered Anvil society engages in unfair labor practices by exploiting workers in their sweatshops (in other words, they are using mules). Until the conditions in their factories improve, I ask that no players use their shop "The Hammered Anvil Factory Showroom" or trade with their members:

  • Armourer Darkling
  • Armourer Durkon
  • Armourer Rockefellow
  • Skold the Armorer
  • Armourer vloodo
  • Armourer Ancev
  • Armourer Quacksworth
  • Armourer Plat

Thank you.

You know Hendsch, it would have been a lot more productive if you actually came to us with your issues rather than make anonymous accusations. I'm not even sure who you're referring to - sure, a lot of us have alts, but that's perfectly acceptable according to TGL. As is, you're basically saying that you want everyone to boycott us until we make changes that you won't tell us what they are. You can understand my frustration at that, I hope. -- Durkon 15:28, 5 April 2007 (BST)
I'm guessing Hendsch is referring to Talk:Hammered_Anvil_Society#Helpers. Random4518 15:44, 5 April 2007 (BST)
That would be my guess, too. But, you see, those helpers have done nothing. Copperisblue is sitting at the party right now and has many things in hand that would be of use to the armorers. He has them all in hand (has given away nothing). He will give nothing to skold, who he is an alt of. NOTHING. He has a bag of spells, and is thinking of finding some way of handing those out right now. If there is something in his inventory you would like, send him a note. He might just give it away. I brought him out of retirement to play with something. I told the party that after he played he would give away his inventory and head back to retirement. The time is come. How shall I handle his loot? skold 12:54, 5, April 2007 (EST)
Well I've been watching copperisblues role with apprehension, but the part that got me to post was the plan to create a wizard mule to make bling for them. Yes I could have gone to you privately, but this is more entertaining (not yet, I guess, but at least potentially). I agree, it's not clear you are breaking any rule, but this is not a direction I care to see the game go in (People using their many characters to support a single guild). People that agree can honor the boycott, people that don't agree can ignore it. In either case, it needs to be discussed now. P.S. Don't worry about your guild, people have argued for a boycott of Nike for decades and all that it has achieved is free publicity for Nike. hendsch 18:38, 5 April 2007 (BST)
As I clarified on our talk page, I was suggesting an active player (alt or not), not a mule. I think Rockefellow may have misunderstood me on that point. I'm envisioning more just another member of the guild, but instead of creating armour, they enchant blings. In return, they get all the benefits of guild membership (vault access, the occassional empty book, etc.) -- Durkon 19:16, 5 April 2007 (BST)
And someone just offered their services. Real character, played by someone not in the guild. In any case, the purpose of a guild is to cooperate, and if you cooperate you will be exchanging items and gaining benefits from doing so. A mule would be a character that gets no benefit from what he's doing, and I think I'm talking for most if not all of us when I say we don't want/like that. Feel free to boycot, it's your right, but be aware you are boycotting progress (a Cities industrial revolution, as I envision it). -- vloodo
What is Copperisblue getting out of it? hendsch 21:34, 5 April 2007 (BST)
Out of what, exactly? It's not like he's given us anything yet, not that I know of. And even then, I understand his donation to be just that, a donation from a retired character. In fact I admit thinking about how he would be useful as a mule, but I couldn't think of any way that would make sense... I mean you try running a sweatshop with 8 managers and one worker. - vloodo
I guess I needed to be more specific than just a link? OK then, Hendsch is presumably referring to "I would like to offer the duke copperisblue as mule and slave of the Anvil", "I mean PAYG out the pass to get into the poor mule-to-be", "Open it to all the elders", and possibly to one "Sir AnvilSociety". Random4518 23:40, 5 April 2007 (BST)
Lets have that offer taken back, that's no problem (I take it back). A character of muleish nature, even while open to a group of people, is probably not right and good. The last time copperisblue went into retirement he dumped everything he owned into the dump. It didn't work very well, there were several people who took all of the valuables and sold them. The strong became stronger, the weak gained nothing. I'm going to post a new topic. I would like to give away everything in copperisblue's inventory. Evenly and fairly. Copperisblue does not want to gain from it, he wants a happy retirement. Help me out by advising me how to go about this. skold
These mule complains smell some evil plot of the so called "free armourer". Some informants told me he´s distributing, "for free", cocktail shakers impregnated of mind-controlling substances. I also heard that his "free" trebuchets are decorated with some kind of hypnotic patterns and subliminal ads (thats how he get money from his "free" stuff). We must stop the "free armourer" before is too late! ancev
*puts on his sunglasses and looks at his trebuchet.* Well I'll be damned. It says "Obey."
Well, who am I to argue? Doc Mackie 05:33, 6 April 2007 (BST)

*Well, you've certainly overcome my objections. I was hoping for more debate so that we'd come to a better definition of what constitutes fair use of alternate characters when talking about collaborations of players. I agree with vloodo, collaborations like yours are the future and it would be nice to define the boundaries now. I didn't intend to force you in to a "no alts, ever" policy unless that was the will of the community (rather than just me being obnoxious), and I find it admirable that you have decided to go that route on your own. I do feel somewhat bad that I made you the test case, so to assuage my guilt, I'll enchant some bling for you. That'll have to wait until next week though, since my character is somewhat remote until then. hendsch 11:20, 6 April 2007 (BST)

*s by Doc Mackie 20:41, 6 April 2007 (BST)

Tea is mighty expensive

What is the effect of drinking "A cup of tea"? It is available in some of the markets at a rather cost. Can't find anything about it on any of wiki pages. Thanks. --Haldar 03:40, 1 April 2007 (BST)

Tea can be obtained for free in the kitchen in Kansas for 10 AP per cup, as I recall. No known effect. If you have one in your inventory, you can't get another. Random4518 03:50, 1 April 2007 (BST)
I'd hazard a guess that the Great Lords prefer coffee if tea is time consuming with no benefit! :P Rhapsodie 13:01, 1 April 2007 (BST)
Maybe you have to drink it exactly at tea time to get an effect.
maybe we have to get tea and no tea at the same time, isn't that the way it worked in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
As far as I'm aware, a cup of tea contains half as much caffeine as a cup of coffee. But it balances this by containing a chemical compound that relaxes, at the same time as stimulating. It produces alpha and beta brainwaves, I think. So, I'd imagine if it was the same as coffee in-game, you should gain half as much AP, but less caffeine tolerance on an per AP gained ratio.
Tea is far more mystical then that!! --Bubba_the_Shy 19:27, 2 April 2007 (BST)
Tea is just warm, dirty water in my opinion AmishRobots 22:09, 15 April 2007 (BST)


Is it possible to give items to other players in-game? I found a Glass Sword an my alt and wanted to give it to my main character but I couldn't find any "Give" button. --Liktai 12:37, 30 March 2007 (BST)

Go to a trading post or party and you will be able to do this. Be aware that benefiting one of your characters by a large amount at the expense of another one is slightly frowned upon, but I don't think one glass sword really fits into this category. Platypus 12:57, 30 March 2007 (BST)

I think its frowned upon more than that, I certainly think I frown more than that :-). If you wouldn't expect someone else to give you a glass sword for free then I don't think you should give one to yourself for free as it were. I feel people playing more than one character is great but they should try to keep interactions between their characters as 'realistic' as possible, by which I mean that to someone watching from the outside their behaviour shouldn't mark them as being played by the same person. Theendisnigh 11:12, 2 April 2007 (BST)

Heck, my opinion is that the playing of multiple characters should be conducted in a manner that is above suspicion. All business should be done with other people. That's mostly just my opinion, though. Doc Mackie 11:34, 2 April 2007 (BST)
indeed, i try to avoid giving anything from one multi to another. Though I have certainly been known to get desperate & perform the occassional tubthump that way, and feel guilty about it.AmishRobots 00:36, 16 April 2007 (BST)

Merchant Grief Amnesty Ends

The 'King waived any punsishment for players harrassing Merchant. (due to the incident). This is now ended. Anybody harrassing the player Merchant further will be subject to normal penalties. Elseware 12:20, 26 March 2007 (BST)

Funny thought; normal penalties. Would that mean, being player harassment, it would come before the players to punish themselves for further punishment of Merchant? Doc Mackie 09:24, 27 March 2007 (BST)

Wizard's Retreat

I travelled to the wizard's retreat the other day and spotted two Dukes despoiling the sanctity of the island. I decided this was a travesty and summoned them away. Both were upset and dissed me. My feeling is that it's hard enough being an apprentice without Dukes poaching the fruit that is the apprentices only marketable commodity. What's the opinion of the community? Am I being overly rigid or are they tresspassers exploiting, er, exploits. hendsch 03:00, 25 March 2007 (BST)

But the real question is: "So, non-wizards can enter that 'wizard's retreat'-Island, ey?" --Bubba_the_Shy 12:02, 25 March 2007 (BST)
It's still much easier for a wizard to get to the retreat than a Duke, so I have no problem leaving the retreat for the apprentices provided that the fruits are 1) available at all and 2) available for a reasonable price. However, from what I've seen from the market prices, this has not been the case until very recently. The lack of damage multiplier is hard (especially on Apprentices, as they have relatively little mana as well), so I'm glad to see a potential way for them to get valuable items. But if they're not using this privilege or expecting an absurd price for a pomegranate, I think it's reasonable for non-wizards to circumvent the cartel.  :) In short, I think summoning them away might have been a little harsh, but I completely understand your reasons for doing so. --Dragon 06:47, 26 March 2007 (BST)
It appears that there is a bridge, or something, across the hexed ocean to the south of the island, I can just make it out upon the horizon (big map), but I'm too far away to examine it in any detail. PlanetNiles 10:03, 26 March 2007 (BST)
Shhh, but yes it's a player built bridge that allows anyone access. I hadn't been bothering trying to keep non-wizards out, but I noticed that bobtheslayer has been trying to sell fruit lately, so I thought I'd start trying again. I guess I owe an apology. hendsch 15:04, 26 March 2007 (BST)
isnt this a little unfair. this is our only profit making thing. why do you do this to us. i think the king should make it impossible to make a bridge to it and to make all dukes sirs barons earls to lose their fruit if thats where the got it. or let us have a damage multipler or be able to make armourer. but since we arent y take this away. king demolish that godforesaken bridge --bobtheslayer 00:37, 29 March 2007 (BST)
The ability to make armour isn't all it's cracked up to be. The bridges will die all on their own, provided no one repairs them. It doesn't prevent anyone from rebuilding them though. Syagrius 00:50, 29 March 2007 (BST)
Bob, don't get me wrong; I sympathize, and intend to get to a point where I sympathize quite directly. Y'all can't even be doctors. Even so, don't you think it's a little weird to cry out, "why do you do this to us," to folks what are playing by the rules?
Frankly, I want some fruit, and it's really, really hard to get. You've got some competition, now. Lobbying the 'King is probably your only decent bet to get your edge back, and I support your efforts to do so. However, a reasoned argument could be made that this is less unfair than direct abuse of player-vs-player, and that there has been a failure in the supply-vs-demand ratio. Doc Mackie 00:56, 29 March 2007 (BST)
For one it's still much easier to get to the Wizards' Retreat for a Wizard than it's for a Duke or Armourer. Last time I checked, the cheapest Pomegranate on a market cost 37500 GP (yes, that's Gold Pieces!), so if you wizards were planning to further your little fruit import/export cartel, I have to say, the customers won't tolerate this much longer. Flt 09:48, 29 March 2007 (BST)
Wouldnt this bridge be an ideal chance for you wizards to show off your golem building skills? Timekeeper
its still unfair since all non wiz are soppused to be left out building a bridge technacly is breaking the rules. and macksting you really dont understand that this is all we can get for money, and without that we cant get spells or the things we need. since most wiz dont fight wheres the money source. i mean really. you just ruined the point of being a wiz becuase now theres nothing to do. so on that note i think im going to go ahead a quit cities. thank you for ruining the game bobtheslayer 14:30, 29 March 2007 (BST)
If you're serious about quitting the game, I volunteer to disperse your inventory as judiciously and fairly as I can for you. Syagrius 17:42, 29 March 2007 (BST)
Bob, I have to dispute a few of your points. Wizards don't fight? Elan's been fighting since he became a wizard - it's just a matter of judicious use of spells and spellbooks. (i.e. using a spellbook for the damage multiplier and elemental ball spells will make your life a LOT easier). Even if you don't want to fight to make money, there are plenty of other ways - the right produce still sells like crazy, as do Power Crystals. And nothing to do? ALL the quests (okay, except for the Armourer ones) are as open to wizards as they are to Dukes. Frankly, I can't blame people for taking matters into their own hands - 30K+ for one piece of fruit is just ridiculous. -- Thog 17:04, 29 March 2007 (BST)
Another note: take a look at the "enchantments" section of the spells list. Many of those items can be sold for a tidy profit to other players, though you'll need a way to gain enough mana to make it worthwhile. If you have nothing else, and you're tired of gathering fruit, try selling Eye Pods with the Wizards Retreat spell on them for a tidy sum and only 1 mana apiece. (You'll need to finish the Trail of Trials first, and that takes a minimum of 40 mana, but it's certainly something to do.) PotatoEngineer 19:46, 29 March 2007 (BST)
I can't tell if you are making fun of airdonkey or not. You do realize that it is entirely possible to turn into a Duke again, right? If you became a wizard to make money, you were probably doing it for the wrong reasons anyway. Regardless, I'm sick of people leaving or threatening to leave the game. If you're going to quit, just do it. Don't whine about losing your plums, having something stolen, or not gaining exclusive access to an area of the game. The developers spend a lot of time and effort on making/improving this game, which most of us really enjoy. If you think you found a bug, post it in the correct place. If you really don't find the game fun, just leave - but don't bother the rest of us by pointing out what you find wrong with it. --JAD 14:57, 29 March 2007 (BST)
As a Duke, I certainly want some of those fruits, even as a Duke who plans to become a Wizard. As someone with a sense of social justice, I wonder if you could try destroying the bridge with a trebuchet, or if that functionality could be added. -- X-Himy 14:33, 29 March 2007 (BST)
Back when I was trying to protect the retreat I tried the Trebuchet on the bridge. I also tried casting a magical display on top of it. Neither worked. When the retreat first opened, I tried to make sure I kept fruit in stock in my store so that there'd be some option for dukes, because demand was high with the opening of the totem quest. But the AP spent never really justified the price I could charge (without getting nasty messages). Certainly there were better ways to make money. I have little interest in doing so now to keep up with demand from the mixology quest. Bobtheslayer, I think you're the only wizard currently trying to market fruit. What do you need? Perhaps I can set you up. hendsch 15:10, 29 March 2007 (BST)
Maybe driving a tank over a bridge should weaken it significantly? Hmm... Darksatanic 15:49, 29 March 2007 (BST)
In respect to the comments about wizards charging too much for fruit, frankly I never saw much point in trying to harvest it from the retreat for a profit. To get one of the rarer fruits, you have to expend a base of 100AP. Sure gold blings can potentially reduce this, but is it worth the risk of losing them for one piece of fruit? In my experience, people are willing to pay about $10k per fruit, (100 GP per AP spent). At that rate, you may as well fight mid-level creatures and at least have the potential of getting decent sellable items in addition to gold.
Too bad one can't build a stone wall across the bridge. Or use a cluster bomb or grenade on the bridge to blast it apart. :) Syagrius 18:51, 29 March 2007 (BST)
I do rather like the idea of having a way to take out the bridges, although that might allow vandals to render moot more welcome bridges. Doc Mackie 21:39, 29 March 2007 (BST)
ha what i need is cds and spells lots of spells but guess what. without fruit market or anything i have no way of getting those. hum i wonder why... maybe cuase im broke and my weapons suck. when you dont have enough money to buy multiplier spells and att spells than guess what. you cant att anything good. and then the best part is the cds. i cant get the last 2 cds becuase they r the two y's, you spin me round and your disco needs you. isnt that great. so taking out fruit is well like taking out the only money source a wizard has. i only have 20k. and guess what buying spells like fire ball cost a lot so i could get like 10 for about 25k than theres to cost of needing the fire stone which go for 300 at the markets so for 10 spells it costs around 28k. and guess what. the cds arent cheap either, if im lucky a you spin me round would be 15k and thats if someone was generous. so take those out. what do i get left with. thats right nothing. so lets see the check list here:
  • not enough cash to buy lots of spells to make money for more spells. check
  • not enough cash to become a shaman. check
  • not enough spells to get cds for shaman. check
  • to many people able to break the rules and have the gl do nothing about it. check
  • loss of all profit possible for a wizard. check.

go me. i just got five for five. dont deny these cuase guess what, there true unless some nice person wants to profit every thing i do, i just lost all fun in the game. o and dont tell me y dont you just stop being a wizard easy answer, if i become a duke i have no weapons and no cash for good ones, y not armourer, well they cant fight either let alone make good money since no one buys there crap only good thing is a dog bot and how am i to get that when misril is bloody expenisive let alone impossible to get. and im not giving any of my crap to anyone except my pwny that needs a good home. well thanks again, for ruining my game woot me bobtheslayer 00:39, 30 March 2007 (BST)

You only need one copy of the spells, and an empty book. MrFoo 00:33, 30 March 2007 (BST)
and what else. what are you forgetting. you need stones and you need ap and mana i will not waste 10ap for one spell or is it more i dont know its a waste of ap and mana it just make an extra waste pointless bobtheslayer 00:39, 30 March 2007 (BST)
Well I personally would swap my entire inventory of spells for a 2 coconuts, 2 pomegranates, 5 lemons, 10 limes and 5 oranges. Direct trading is probably better then the markets and I know there are a lot of Dukes who have lots of spells. I also lack a boat, so even getting to the bridge is a problem for me. But then, so is cash so I can't afford to buy the fruit at the prices asked. Phw 01:48, 30 March 2007 (BST)
For the record, I'd like to point out for anyone that's not Bob who's getting scared away from wizardry by reading this that Bob is in the DISTINCT minority on this point. Elan has been a wizard since shortly after they were available, and aside from the well-documented frustrations of getting You Spin Me Round, I've had NO problem killing things, making money, or otherwise making my way in the game. Hell, there was a period where I led the Morpheus tables AS AN APPRENTICE. If apprentices were underpowered, how would that be possible? -- Thog 01:59, 30 March 2007 (BST)
Bob, if you're low on money, then don't complain about spending extra AP for spells. Wizarding is not instant money: it's a class that requires much more thought and planning than a duke. Find and kill some nodes if you need mana; make a Tarot Deck if you don't have one. If you can't afford a tarot deck, then you already know what you want to save up for. And yes, the answer IS to "go back to being a duke" if you don't have money or weapons. A duke's fists do enough damage to get better weapons, and your inventory page shows you have more than enough money to equip yourself as a duke, or at least enough to get a moderate supply of weapons so you can work yourself further up the violence ladder. Even your supply of rusty swords is enough to get you something better before they all wear out. And regarding trades: if you don't like somebody's offer, make them a counter-offer. Ask at parties for spell-trades, most dukes don't realize how many useful spells they're sitting on unless somebody reminds them. Also regarding fruit: if you're in it for the money, why are you handing it out for free? PotatoEngineer 02:15, 30 March 2007 (BST)
I think my head's about to explode. Grammar Nazi 02:58, 30 March 2007 (BST)
you know what the best part is the gls arent doing crap even though this is an abouvous god damn bug and everyone get off my god damn back.
  • yes i do have a free fruit thing but thats four people a week and i also sell fruit the cheapest fruit err or did before i stopped the stock
  • your right its easy to kill things when you have chance for spells and whatnot and the stones. i have stones for spells i dont have and spells for stones i dont have.
  • if i become a duke my fist wont do crap. and do you know how much a catana cost on the market.
  • you guys havent been helping just making me want to quit more so thank you


You're still here?
I sounded like Bob when i complained about the "Free Armourer"?!? Ohh, man... please forgive me if so... ancev 00:42, 30 March 2007 (GMT-3)

hey who ever did that is a dumbass and yet again just pushing me farther thank you for making this game awful and a crap excuse for a game, o and by the way koas, your an ass for doing that. kinda of easy to tell when theres a damn history button dumbass

Seriously you're making the wizard path much harder than it has to be by not using spellbooks. Consider this sequence: Use a wand to align the monster (1AP), fireball from book (6AP), killing blow from book (12 AP), throw fireball (1AP). That's 20AP for 4000 damage. A Duke using an aligned catana for 20 AP will only do 2800 damage and get hit by the monster an extra 19 times. Sure, it's even better casting it from scrolls, but even from a book it's better than what a Duke can do. The cost of being a wizard is that you have to scrounge for components and mana, don't make it harder than it has to be by also forcing yourself to scrounge for copies of spells. Wizards can be very good at fighing, last I checked I was third on the XP list, it's just a bit of extra work. It is much easier as a Shaman (less time scrounging for mana), you might go back to being a Duke to kill the monsters you need for the last two CDs, then go back to being a wizard. hendsch 15:05, 30 March 2007 (BST)

bobtheslayer, calm down a bit :) First of all, please don't blame the Great Lords! They do want things to be fair. The way to make things fair isn't always obvious, and they do have lives apart from Cities, too (or so they claim). If they weren't doing such a great job, we wouldn't be so upset when things occasionally go wrong! Secondly, why don't you go back to being a Duke? I think it only costs a couple of days' AP and you won't have lost anything. And thirdly, don't forget that most players are nice and helpful, especially if you are polite and reasonable. Try not to be upset by people saying things you don't agree with (I admit I am having trouble ignoring Kaos Dragon's meanness above, though). Vashka 15:11, 30 March 2007 (BST)
Bobtheslayer I'm a Duke, and currently on the whizard's retreat. I can understand that you are pissed, but I can tell you, I would much prefer buying those pesky fruit at reasonable prizes over hanging out there. Also, you can always try and offer them for trade for CDs and spells. Many people who don't intend to become wizards any time soon will happyly part with those, for the benefit of both sides. While I think that this is a quite exaggerated reaction, i'm really sorry to hear that this has ruined your enjoyment of the game. So, I would be willing to leave the island and hand over some of the fruit I got to you, if that can make you calm down and enjoy things again. Eusebia 17:17, 30 March 2007 (BST)
 !!! Eusebia's right, I'm practically sitting on a gold mine here. Bob, I'd like fruit for multiple purposes; many of those fruits are crucial to the Totems quest, as I recall, and of course many are required in duplicate for the Mixology quest. If there's any spares in my inventory that you've need of, feel free to request them; I'll try to negotiate a reasonable price, even a profitable one.
My apologies that it took Eusebia to remind me that, however much I feel your feelings on the matter are overly strong, they are quite real and meaningful.
It is, indeed, going to be a while before I become a wizard. I intend to jump almost straight to Shaman in I can, so I've been keeping careful inventory of a number of important items. That said, I'm a fan of good trade, and what's valuable to me must be at least as much so to you.
My palantir's busted until I hit a town other than Bognor. Doc Mackie 22:53, 30 March 2007 (BST)
I love being a wizard... just got me some very good trades at the current party just because I happened to have a lovely bunch of- nggg... no... my obvious-jokeometer just blew a fuse... Stoo 23:18, 30 March 2007 (BST)
another good way to get cash or books or cds is to hire yourself out. for example, i'm an apprentice at the moment and have hired myself out to Armourer Spacer One as a miner on his mine. he gets the ore, and i get well compensated, while building up mana at the same time...Zoological 13:43, 3 April 2007 (BST)


So. Stien will craft for us one Trebuchet each, free of charge, given materials.
Glass Swords require large amounts of really hard-to-get charcoal and a lot of effort in glass-working, and even then might fail in the crafting.
I'm at the Annual Dinner, and I take Stien up on the offer. I hand off materials, put myself on the list, and set about crafting a Glass Sword so as to better my tubthumping on the next high-risk occasion. After I get my stuff together, I press the button to craft the Glass Sword. 50 AP gone, a new sword, and Stien has handed me my Trebuchet! Very promptly, might I add.
So I go down my inventory list and select Trebuchet. "Now using Fists."
The fffff...?
I look at my AP. Sure enough, the AP's back, the Trebuchet's completely gone as are the materials to craft it, and I have back the makings of that glass sword. Stien isn't returning my phone calls. One apiece, that's the word, and he has stated concern about us using him unethically to create multiples for the same character. I presume there's some kind of relationship here; however, he could simply be oblivious.
Swallowing my anger and distress, I take another shot at crafting the sword, thinking the worst that can happen is a significant loss of glass and about twenty or so charcoal. Whoops! I click the button, and rather than glass, it costs me 43 Enchanted Charcoal.
This is probably my worst god damned rollback experience ever. At our own ****in' party, too. Doc Mackie 08:42, 21 March 2007 (GMT)

thats what you gain for using non-union armourer services. I not saying this, but i heard that this so-called Armourer Stien buyed his armourer diploma online... ancev 00:45, 21 March 2007 (GMT-3)
OK, it sucks that you lost stuff, but Glass Swords are really not worth making. You could sell the enchanted charcoal and then buy the glass sword for far less, and not have to worry about the 50% chance of it breaking during construction. --Dragon 16:13, 21 March 2007 (GMT)
When I thought I might only lose glass bits, I was okay with the loss rate and wanted to try once. Having succeeded once, I was emboldened. I assure you, I know never to try again. Doc Mackie 19:32, 21 March 2007 (GMT)
All lies Ancev! It was the back of a cereal box. Mackie, you know I would never want to do anything to hurt cha, Where you at. I sent you a palantir now, and I am currently at the next party with a brand new trebuchet for you. Just come on over and I'll hand it over. -Stien 16:43, 21 March 2007 (GMT)
Sounds like a race condition. The are far far more likely at a party due to all the actions affecting your character. Tip: don't swap valuable items at parties. As for making glass swords, that was be caving in to presure from players. Wish I'd never done it... elseware. (ps. I just lost a pet peeve against ninjas which I'd just fed, due to HITTING the ninja with it, rather than putting it by the old feet. Live and learn eh?
So rollbacks are race conditions? 'Cause I also got back lost AP. As for swapping valuable items, it was kinda Stien's idea. I'm very much against it, but I'm not the one making free trebuchets. Doc Mackie 19:32, 21 March 2007 (GMT)
Hey hey now, let's not spoil Stien's unblemished reputation. It wasn't his fault!! Plus, look at my freaking awesome Trebuchet :) --Bubba_the_Shy 10:22, 22 March 2007 (GMT)
The trebuchets build by Stien, i heard, are made of inadequade wood, and use innapropriated stones. They may look pretty, but you could loose a limb using them. The GLs, i also heard, are investigating 2 fatal accident where they where involved. ancev 09:49, 22 March 2007 (GMT-3)
Well, he done right by me, gave me the benefit of the doubt. Turns out he'd simply missed my Palantir and my shout-out both, and when he spotted this invited me to take advantage of his services one more time. I've thanked him kindly, and gave him kudos; one kudo doesn't amount to much, so all who think this is pretty kick-ass should probably give him one, too. Doc Mackie 16:20, 22 March 2007 (GMT)
Heh, thanks Mackie, no real need to kudos me though, I figured this event would happen somewhere down the line, so I made a couple extra treb(s) to cover it. I'm just glad that we got that taken care of Mackie, Also I am still doing the whole trebuchet building so make sure to go here and put your name on the list. Remember one per character. -Stien The Free Armourer P.S. All allegations by the Guild of Armourers and namely Ancev are all lies, except for the one about me and those 8 supermodels, those are all true.
for all hes done for me i going to give him kudos, hes given me almost all the cds i have, and asked for nothing in return, though i always give him something... (a bit of iron), he truly does deserve some kudos. and speaking of free stuff, mind if i have a free treb, no no just kidding. bobtheslayer 23:03, 22 March 2007 (GMT)
Concurred, Kudos giveth --Bubba_the_Shy 11:56, 24 March 2007 (GMT)

Polychromatic Dragon Seige

Merchants Goods at 10E 6N is surrounded by Polychromatic Dragons, if anyone wants to get together to hunt dragons, now would be a good time.

these dragons are there for a good reason... slay them, and you will be the target of the wrath of lots of peoples - be wise and dont touch them
Look further down on this page for the reason they're there. Timekeeper was keeping an eye on them with a disguise kit and hyper-link explaining about them, but he may have left to go spend AP or something. --Dragon 06:30, 18 March 2007 (GMT)
or limbo... bobtheslayer 16:34, 18 March 2007 (GMT)
The dragons are gone. And I didn't kill them. --Qazxcv 23:40, 18 March 2007 (GMT)
Merchant now has 5 poly dragon kills, and I'm not sure if he had them before or not. Kaos Dragon 00:04, 19 March 2007 (GMT)
He didn't, and looking at the other names on the list, it's a safe bet that he's the one who killed them. --Dragon 00:40, 19 March 2007 (GMT)
So, anyone care to speculate on how he did it? Alts with glass swords? Cocktails? Lots of hiking? PotatoEngineer 14:35, 19 March 2007 (GMT)
Mirror monsters, I'm thinking. Doc Mackie 14:39, 19 March 2007 (GMT)
There was an "Invisible" character siting in that spot that was primarily a healing person, since they were no rank, but had a MD.
Nice one! So Merchant got his stalls back. Don't you think it's time to calm down, remember this as a story to tell to your grandchildren and go on playing and having fun? Flt 16:17, 19 March 2007 (GMT)

i have... an idea!

ok so, i just realized, theres no player to player fights other than in the duel, why don't we make some kind of area with easy access and you can duel people there, or you ask someone to duel and if they agree, you should be allowed to fight. and if you get killed insurance doesn't do anything and only normal weapons work. like no golden guns, vorpal blades, and stuff like that to make it more enjoyable like a fight instead of a killing spree. to me this would be a great improvement, post here about any thoughts you have to help get it started, or sadly denied. bobtheslayer the all mighty 03:19, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

There would need to be some way to ensure an even match. As it stands, the person with the most HP or damage multiplier would win. Maybe the odds of winning should be based on kudos. Or have a second kudos-type rating that is activated after the duellist agree to fight. That way, people can 'vote' on who they think is the wronged party, thereby increasing the odds that they win. Gonzometro 03:28, 18 March 2007 (GMT)
One of the things I like most about Cities is that, with the exception of the Duel, it's not PvP, and in fact encourages cooperation rather than competition. A "PvP zone" has been suggested before (along with other variants such as a new quest that's a form of "advanced duel"), and I'm generally against it. If it exists in the game, many people (including myself) will want to explore it purely for the sake of completion, and I'm not a fan of doing more PvP. (If you like that sort of thing, there are plenty of other games already.) In addition, there are problems with how it would have to be set up--the same concerns that are often voiced about the Duel. You, for example, would want to ban instakill weapons. But if instakill weapons are banned, then the active player always wins--they can take a break, heal themselves, or as a last resort flee if things get bad. The only way someone who's offline can win is if they kill in one hit. So, in general, I'm not a fan of this sort of thing--and keep in mind that I'm speaking as someone who would likely do quite well at it (as I have high HP, multiple Iron Blings, and a wide variety of both instakill and non-instakill weapons). --Dragon 06:26, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

hey guess your right. had some valid points, and the person thats active would always win unless, it was fist to fist no healing would work till the end of the deul. but that doesnt sound fun.

Really? I kinda like the idea of kung fu matches. In fact, it could be entertaining to have a gauntlet-like fists-only fight zone as a quest. Doc Mackie, who forgot to sign.
And call it fight club? AmishRobots 10:55, 25 March 2007 (BST)
Hey! What's the first rule of Fight Club? -- Sertularian 14:28, 25 March 2007 (BST)

Billz8 wants help

See the Classifieds page.

Egg Shopping Trip

I'll head to Oz in order to boost the economy down under tomorrow evening. This trip is done to support one single salesman who operates a pet shop there. If you want me to bring a Dung Egg, a Stone Egg or both, please add your name and wishes to this list before tomorrow evening and hand me the money. I'll be at the trading post inside the KOT keep in order to reduce the risk of losing the money. I'll probably leave around 20:00h GMT;
A Dung Egg is 75,000 GP, a Stone Egg is 50,000 GP.

  • I'd like a Stone Egg, please. -- Sertularian 02:27, 16 March 2007 (GMT) (paid) and (delivered)
  • As previously discussed, JADW27 would like a Dung Egg (if you don'd mind). --JAD 03:15, 16 March 2007 (GMT) (paid) and (delivered)
  • Stone Egg, please --Dragon 07:54, 16 March 2007 (GMT) (paid) and (delivered)

I'll notify you before I leave and when I'm back. Rockefellow 18:39, 15 March 2007 (GMT)

Alright, I'm back at the KOT trading post. Contact me on IRC or notify here when I can give you your new egg.

Babies, ARGH!

I just wanted to vent a little bit about my baby situation... I looked on the front page and saw that babies would be reactivated on Tuesday. Yesterday, at 7am Cities time, I tried feeding my baby but found that it wasn't activated yet... I figured I would have to come back the next day to feed it. While the baby functions were locked, it looked like it was on a 24-hour cycle. Fast forward one day to now, when I log in to find myself in the dungeon! Huh? Seems that when the baby woke up, it went back to its usual 8-hour cycle, causing me to neglect it and end up in the dungeon. While I thought it would need feeding now, it actually needed feeding much earlier. *groan* That was the third one, and I was prepared to finish the job! Now to start over. AGAIN. Whew, I feel better now. MrBlarney 07:10, 14 March 2007 (GMT)

Well, on the page with all the details on it, it did say that they would be activated at 17:00, game time. Darksatanic 10:32, 14 March 2007 (GMT)

Citiezens, buy more armour

Business has been going a bit slow for armourers recently. Why don't people buy our shiny pieces of armour and our fabulous custom weapons? To address this and other armourer related issues, and because we need one anyway, I created this topic. And maybe to suggest the foundation of an armourers' guild, if there are enough prospective members. Rockefellow 19:04, 12 March 2007 (GMT)

I don't buy armor for 3 reasons:
  • I'm not a fire player, so would not spend my precious to-hit in fancy costumes
  • It breaks quite easily and is very expensive
  • I'm more concerned about killing a monster with the less AP possible than how much it would hit me
Despite that, some of the armourer products are interesting : spellbooks,blings, balistaes, and maybe custom weapons, if they could only be cheaper--Solune 20:05, 12 March 2007 (GMT)
Agreed - as a relatively new player, I've got a grand total of $30k from which I'm paying for Hard Knocks + Supplies and now my earth sword just broke. I don't have the cash. Phw 20:32, 12 March 2007 (GMT)
I've not bought armour but I've had two sets of Mail on Sunday, both of which broke on the first use. Hence I'm also relunctant to spend my hard earned gold on armour. I wouldn't mind a Dogbot though... GrumpyNick 20:38, 12 March 2007 (GMT)
As a shaman, I expend considerable resources being good at killing things for a few (or sometimes just 1) AP. Missing during those times is a huge waste of resources, so I don't wear armor. If I need extra protection, I'll go with an iron bling or a shield spell which provides it more reliably. I have purchased and/or traded for 4 spellbooks and a recipe book, though. hendsch 20:59, 12 March 2007 (GMT)
Any formation of a Armourer's Guild will probably be used to hurt the Free Armourer, namely me, and as such will be taken as a threat. Especially if Flt and Ancev join or form it. -Stien 21:28, 12 March 2007 (GMT)
Dont think so high of yourself, Stien... Your acts surely spoiled the last of fun in running a armourer, but the problem existed even before you started this "free armourerer" stuff - you just made it worse. Forming a guild to screw you was a joke, a joke you surely liked, as would add flavour to your "free armourer". I rather would just finish a set of armour for me, and become duke again (i guess Flt already did this, as i saw a Duke Flt MD north of the party). Maybe in a couple of weeks, you can start charging for armourer services, since you will be the only ;-) ancev 00:27, 13 March 2007 (GMT-3)
Aw, but Ancev I already drew a picture... and I was gonna draw another one, oh well we shall see... if I finish them and post them you would probably, also go to the party already so I can send you some saltpetre. Also, you should be happy to know the list has died down apparently cause no one wants to give me the materials... :(. -Stien 06:48, 13 March 2007 (GMT)
Duke Flt is the other half of my split personality and wouldn't become a member of this newly founded guild. This guild I'm thinking about should be modelled on middle-age guilds insofar that any smith or armourer can (and should) join in. All opinions could be given freely and thus I hope that you'd think about joining as well, Stien. Rockefellow 08:47, 13 March 2007 (GMT)
I don't know how long I would even be a member since I would be constantly suggesting you all just do everything for free :-P. Plus, It could lead to a page of economic use for the skill, and I still believe players should work together outside of gold pieces and just help each other. -Stien 12:23, 13 March 2007 (GMT)
i agree with stien, he's helped me so much and did it for nothing, why cant we all just help each other out. the armour thing, well in my opinion you guys shouldnt do it for free but dont make crap armour, most people dont need to spend gold on that stuff espacialy if your a wizard, its just a waste of money and ap and hit to hit, but building an awesome weapon for people would be awesome if thats what you guys made. also there some stuff like a dogbot that are pretty nice but no one is making them. me personally would adore a dogbot and would purchase one, but where are the armouers making them, nope, their wasting time making armour that no one buys
I'd love to make you a dog bot, as I made one for Shaman Zingus. I can't provide the materials though, since they are too hard to get. Same for armour btw. Rockefellow 21:16, 13 March 2007 (GMT)
I never bought armour because nobody ever told me how good it was. If it was so good then wouldn't someone have told me and wouldn't I be buying it - should I buy some?YFM 21:28, 13 March 2007 (GMT)
Not really, unless you did the two cake quests... did you do the two cake quests? Also If people want armor maybe I should do an "Almost" free armor drive where the only cost is 2 extra pieces of leather for everything I build. Then I could take that leather and give it to the cough... "Guild" so that they can use it for what ever they see fit in thier endeavor for money and power? Let me know if there is enough people willing to do that cause I will spend my ap building armor for people if there is. -The Free Armourer
I couldn't come up with a good name so I created a temporary page first. Please, put further feedback concerning an Armourer Guild there. Be assured that we are (at least I am) not the gold hungry armourers that some other colleague says we are. Rockefellow 12:54, 14 March 2007 (GMT)

Answers to "Its What I Would Call a Robbery!"

1 My main purposes in this game are to make money, but not illegally, and do quests. My way of making this money is something you always can discuss. I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. For example: Timekeeper buys New Bags for 1999 and they sell it for 500 at the store. I really don’t care about his reasons for having this purchase price, but if he wants to buy at that price I will sell to him. Perhaps some suggested reading for Timekeeper would be Economics for Dummies and Atlas Shrugged. He should also sell his copy of Das Kapital by Karl Marx. It’s outdated.

The price was changed. They used to be 5000 from the City Shops. So he's not an "dummy", or anything like that. The price was changed. So basically, from the above lines, to the end of this post are based on a false premise, I suggest you re-think. MrFoo 19:59, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
Suggesting he be forced to read Atlas Shrugged is just mean. In the darkest corridors of the UN it's whispered that Kim Jong-il's gravest violation of international law is subjecting political prisoners to Ayn Rand's "prose." The nuclear weapons stuff is just a beard, the true concern is a purely humanitarian one for those poor souls forced to endure John Galt's 97 page soliloquy.
I like the way you think. lol --Gasoline 23:00, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
I'm with MrFoo here. Not only are your statements condescending, but they're also largely irrelevant--the price was dramatically decreased without warning, and Cities doesn't really model real economic systems anyway since, as you and Merchant clearly demonstrated, if an item is available from an NPC store for cheap, there's no such thing as scarcity (which is, of course, ultimately the subject of economics). --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)

When you are buying stuff that you later can’t resell at a store or at Sebs or a wizards tower you are taking a risk that someone will sell more than you need to you. If you don’t understand the bulk problem I am very happy that Elsewere and the Great Lords are the ones programming this game, and not you. And I hope you realize that they can change the price at Sebs, the stores, wizard tower etc exactly how they want to let the game take a new direction. Some tips:

  • Don’t put more money in a shop then you are willing to lose.
  • If you make a mistake, learn from it.
  • In your case maybe you should ask for the boon to be that a player can only buy from you once and sell to you once. lol

Of course I understand Timekeepers reasons for whining to the Great Lords. He wants to get paid for the bags, get a free Boon, he wants the money back from me and Merchant and start a vendetta which he himself is not man enough to fight. I have not received any summon, dissing or message by palantir from Timekeeper himself, but a lot from his “friends” which I never heard from before or even met, for example The Beggar and Apprentice Walker and some others.

Even overlooking the tone of your post, your statements don't really reflect reality. In his wiki post, Timekeeper didn't ask for anything in return--he just posted the facts and asked for comments. In IRC, there was discussion of a possible GL bag repurchase, but Timekeeper wasn't the one who originally suggested it. And the Boon wasn't really anticipated by anyone. Thus, to say that Timekeeper was "whining to the Great Lords" in order to gain any of these is factually inaccurate. As for the ad-hominem "not man enough to fight"...in case you haven't noticed, Cities isn't PvP. There's relatively little one player can actually do to another. Taunting someone for not "fighting" you in a game that is explicitly cooperative rather than competitive is rather silly. --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)

I assume that every one who wants vendetta are squeaky clean and have never done anything wrong to any other players or have exploited anything to gain a personal advantage.

First, let me clarify by saying I don't want a vendetta--then again, I don't think that people who dis you or palantir you necessarily want one either (they just thought what you did was wrong). That said, I've made a few sales to my advantage. I was the one who sold Zingus a bunch of consonants (I'm glad he's not holding a grudge), I sold Jon a bunch of misril blings right after they became makeable, and I've bought a number of items when I saw them offered significantly below the going rate. I don't consider these mean-spirited. Nor do I have anything against you for selling my shop those Midas Wands--I was mildly annoyed to find my shop out of money, but it wasn't as if you were exploiting my prices to do it (anyone need a Midas Wand? stop by my shop--I have lots).
In this circumstance, however, there are differences--not only of magnitude but of circumstance. You were taking advantage of a very recent price change which the shop owner obviously hadn't noticed yet. The other thing that makes a difference--which is largely why the public ire is primarily on Merchant and only secondarily on you--is buying out his inventory. That, to me, is much worse than simply emptying his shop of gold--emptying it, buying everything, and then emptying it again goes beyond capitalistic greed and into griefing IMHO. Looking at the shop report, you only bought a few things at the very beginning, so I didn't think as badly of you--but your post isn't really helping. --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)

2 About Jon: He was buying Blank Talismans for 2100 GP and I could buy them for 2000 at the Talisman maker. I really don’t understand his price setting but hey it’s his money. He used the Talismans to make more money and learned from the experience. That’s an excellent way of taking something negative and turning it into success. I talked with Merchant and realized that Jon also has a bit of greed in him. He was the one responsible for the nerfing of the Pirates Hat (from 80% discount to 50% discount). He bought books at reduced prices and sold them back to the store. Wonder what he did with all that money?

If I recall, Elseware took the money.
Actually, quoted from Jon's page (in the history, it's not there now)
After taking the books back and most of my gold (he did leave me 1 GP), I get the dunce cap
and then, just for me, the King wrote a new function into the game to bitch slap me. 
Apparently the ringing headache it gave me will deal out 2 points of damage everytime I hear 
noise. My to hit dropped to about -150% but seems to be rising a point or so with every AP 

Syagrius 20:42, 10 March 2007 (GMT)

I was buying Blank Talismans because to buy them from the Talisman Maker, you have to spend 1 AP per talisman (at least you did last time I was there). I never imagined someone would spend 300 AP buying up blanks to then go and sell for a mere 100 GP profit on each one. But I'm not even really mad about that. I was at first glance, then just annoyed as all hell, but I let it go. And yep, I freely admit it's my singlehanded fault that Pirate Hats were nerfed. Have I ever tried to hide the reason? However, for the record, I was busted before I got a chance to sell them back. Elseware took all of the books as well as the gold I had on my person which had been earned prior to the start of my buying binge. What I saw was an oversight on the part of the 'King and/or GLs and I was using it. The end result would have been a large amount of cash for me with no loss to anyone else in the game. I see very little difference in that action and yours except that yours involved a player oversight and not one by a programmer. My crime didn't involve victimizing another person, yours did, regardless of your assumption that somehow Timekeeper knew the price of bags had been cut to 1/10th it's previous value. In the end, the people who think your behavior is no big deal will ignore it. The people who disagree will take action as necessary. Personally I won't be summoning or sending nasty palantirs, but that doesn't mean I'd ever offer any help either. -Jon 05:28, 11 March 2007 (GMT)
Come on Jon, I for one was impressed by your admitting from the start you'd made a big mistake over the Pirate Hat exploiting. Don't go back on it now. I'm not sure if taking advantage of programmer oversight is worse than taking advantage of individual player oversight, but I think a case could be made for it, and I certainly don't think you have the moral high ground here. Apart from that, I agree with you :) Vashka 10:46, 14 March 2007 (GMT)
I hadn't realized I was trying to take the moral high ground until it was pointed out to me. You're absolutely right about that and I'm not saying what I did was better (or admitting to worse, either :)). It was a defensive reflex on my part. -Jon 19:54, 15 March 2007 (GMT)
I side with Gasoline (at least that's what I think who wrote this) here. Prices can change, not only in regular shops but also on the market. If you set up a shop you can't just leave it sitting there but have to check regularly if your prices are still in tune with regular market prices. Timekeeper has a right to be pissed, simply because he wouldn't have lost that much money if somebody had pointed out this issue to him, and losing 2M in Gold is nothing I'd would want to happen to me. However, I have no idea for how long the price for New Bags had dropped. His was a very large shop and thus had a greater chance for errors. If he doesn't check regularly, something like this is prone to happen. Taking advantage from that may not be the most kindest act in the 'kingdom, it can't be called an exploit and I don't see a reason for harsh punishment Flt 21:39, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
How often is "checking regularly"? Merchant's entire shop-stripping operation probably took no longer than an hour, likely closer to 30 minutes. How often should Timekeeper have checked market prices? Every 8 hours? Every 4? Every hour? Is he allowed to sleep? Owning a stall that deals in commodity items should not be a full-time job, and furthermore this is the first price change I've seen in the game-owned shops since I started playing, so Timekeeper had no expectation it would ever change. PotatoEngineer 20:46, 11 March 2007 (GMT)
The price change of New Bags is old, probably from the time when Sorting Office Pass appeared in general stores. The Sorting Office Pass and the reduced prices of New Bags are linked to eachother, I assume. He had plenty of time to check the general stores. You might be right in that it is the first price change you have seen, I have no idea how long you have played, but not too long ago Sebs stopped carrying Glass Swords and Vorpal Blades and then re-introduced them in his inventory to extremely inflated prices, so this is definitely not the first price change ever. --Merchant 21:05, 11 March 2007 (GMT)
That depends on what you mean by "old." It was around for one week. I check my shop about once a week--I certainly don't check general stores, wizard shops, bars, healers, and the myriad specialty stores once a week. Also, game-run stores have a profound effect on the economy (as noted above), since they have infinite supply. Game-run stores also change prices very infrequently, and this is the only time I've seen the prices go down. Seb's inventory changed, and his prices were raised far above the current market rates at the time. Wizards stopped carrying Summon Stones, and if they ever start again, I'd expect the price to be at least twice the current "going rate" (to account for hats). As an analogy, pretend Seb's dropped the price of some of their weapons drastically, or the North Lanes with tarot cards, or the 'King's library started selling books in addition to buying them. Would you notice in a week's time? Not necessarily. How would you like it if someone else used that to clean out your entire shop? --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)
Flt: As far as I can tell, it's not being called an exploit, and there are no harsh punishments. The GLs said as much. Neither Gasoline nor Merchant has been punished by them--the retribution is player-driven, and also consists of game-legal actions (which are naturally quite limited). --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)

3 MrFoo questioned how anyone could spend 400.000 GP or more quickly.

  • Use a Golden Gun
  • Put money in your store
  • Buy a Gold Bling and a Vorpal Blade from a market.
  • Put it in a Vault

4 I agree with Flt’s post on the Justice page: It’s just a game, lighten up.

Saying "it's just a game" isn't an excuse to trample on others' efforts. It is just a game, but the reason people play games is that they are fun, and making things explicitly not-fun for other players, even in a way that is within the rules of the game, isn't generally going to be looked favorably upon. --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)

This is the first time I've really weighed in on this. I think the GLs were right to largely stay out of this, but I also agree with the mob that this was a rather mean thing to do. Thus, while I don't think you guys should be forced to give back any of your questionably-gotten gains (which, indeed, you won't be), I'd ask you to consider your reputations for a bit. You both have the stated goal of making money, and if you're going to actively screw over another player and then make snide, insulting posts about it on the wiki, you'll find your in-game reputation ruined. Which, as any entrepreneur knows, is bad for business. I know that I personally would think quite a bit better of you if you were to make some sort of amicable agreement with TK. So far, this doesn't seem likely though. --Dragon 22:55, 11 March 2007 (GMT)

Well I cant say a lot more than Dragon, Mr Foo and Potatoengineer (thanks guys and everyone else for all the other messages of support I have recieved, its a reminder there is more good than bad here) have said and they have said it better than I could have. Darksatanic confirmed the bag change was a week old when your actions took place. Your shop cleaning out mission took place on the first time I have done a quest since I opened my shop having spent all my time building up the money you tooks so to say I was neglectful is just not true. To say I am not man enough to bring the fight to you myself is also not true, ask yourself who is sat (been sat for 4 days) on your shop surrounded by dragons? What I will say is that your attitude is appauling and has just served to fire up more resolve in myself against the pair of you (Which was fading just out of boredom and a sense of satisfaction with the various outcomes). I will also say this, you state on your wiki page that you mean to become the richest man in Cities. You may atcheive that goal but anyone who sees it will think that it was undeserved and obtained through a loophole, thus denying you any satifaction or prestige that atcheivement will bring. I will bounce back, after all its only money and Im still a long way from poor, however reputations dont come so cheap and you will find repercussions of your actions here will haunt you for a long time to come. As far as mutual book recommendations go then you should try Ethics for Idiots which Amazon helpfully suggests you pair with The Good, the Bad, and Your Business: Choosing Right When Ethical Dilemmas Pull You Apart Timekeeper 08:42 11th March

Dragon especially has said some really sensible stuff here. Sure, having a shop will involve risk if you want to make money from it, and yes, the 'robbery' wasn't illegal, but it was mean. And in a small community like this, meanness will have repercussions. I'm with those who think those repercussions should mainly be in choosing to avoid trading and other interactions with mean people. I think kudos could be a good tool for this, particularly if it was possible to eg. set a minumum kudos level for people to buy from your shop. Vashka 10:46, 14 March 2007 (GMT)

Trouble logging in

Please keep this at the top until this is sorted out.


If you have trouble logging in, please check out the Logging in problems page.

You can't log in, are at max AP and would like to be at holiday island where AP will go over max? look at Current events there's a summon list. -Eusebia

Not a problem logging in, rather the contrary. I clicked 'Cities' in my favourites tonight, and went straight to my currentpage that I was playing. Ever cool! and efficient too. Is this an effect from 'the fix'? Dendrast 01:36, 14 March 2007 (GMT)
The effect is called "Your browser keeps a cookie," and Cities has used it for...quite a long time.  :) --Dragon 06:13, 14 March 2007 (GMT)

Its What I Would Call a Robbery!

I would like to complain. Its not often I get annoyed by things that happen in this game but this has annoyed me to the tune of nearly 2million GP!

New bags used to cost 5000 GP and unless I missed something an unannounced change re priced them at 500GP. This meant that my shop was buying them for 1999GP and while I was up north the price was changed and now some scumbag has robbed my shop.

Naming and shaming this scumbag it was Merchant. He sold my shop over 840 New Bags. When my shop ran out of money he bought all my stock and sold me some more bags. Nice one pal you have just ruined my enjoyement of this game and im going to devote the rest of my time on here ruining yours.

It took me months of hard work to accumulate that level of cash and its taken away in an instant by an moral less tw*t. If people left over 12 baskets of plums imagine what losing 2 million GP would do to you.

What gets me the most though is that the change of bag price was unannounced. How is a trader supposed to keep his price lists accurate when set prices of game items can just be changed at will without any announcement. I read this wiki everyday and there has been nothing here. Do any of the admins have a comment on this?

- Timekeeper 7th March 09:06 GMT

Now that's being an asshole. I think that the GLs should put it back and give him a naughty hat or throw him in the stocks for a week. If not, coordinating summons to the thieve's forest and robbing him blind sounds like a good idea to me. Kaos Dragon 09:57, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
I'm up for helping with some of that. TK, if there are any members of the other KoT still in the four cities I think we should organise a bit of Otherdeen style retribution. PlanetNiles 10:26, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
That would be very much appreciated but would need coordination to save on the stones. A mate of mine who is a Wizard has just summoned both of them to the ocean just outside of the Wizards retreat then sprayed them in the face with a Fungal Spray making them trip, unfortunately he couldnt get them stuck in the hexed Ocean. Another has just dissed em for over 100 Kudos each. Im going the Theives forest route myself though and im also stocking up on POOP. Large disorienting Snowballs are also an option. Of course if they were to give it back (or Great Lords/Admins were to step in) I could stop all this sillyness and get back to enjoying an excellent game. If not the sillyness will become the game for me, It will be my sole purpose in life. Timekeeper 10:42, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
Whack him on a Trading Post and mega tribble him? Shambler 11:29, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
Isnt it just. Not only was he not content with taking the 1.3 million GP I had invested in my shop to make purchases but when the shop ran out of money he bought all my stock (worth a conservative 700K) so that the shop had some more money and then sold me some more new bags. Basically I paid 1679160 GP for 420000 worth of new bags. On further investigation it seems he had an accomplis too another scumbag called Gasoline (an Alt perhaps) but it was Merchant that did the damage. Here is the proof from my stall monkey :
Purchased 83 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 165917 gold.
Purchased 60 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 119940 gold.
Sold 13 Earth Knives to Duke Gasoline MD for 24700 gold (4322 goes in tax).
Sold 5 Roc Rocks to Duke Gasoline MD for 30000 gold (5250 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Water Talismans to Duke Gasoline MD for 300 gold (52 goes in tax).
Sold 344 Palantirs-as-you-go to Duke Gasoline MD for 1032 gold (180 goes in tax).
Sold 10 Doses of Magic Powder to Duke Gasoline MD for 22000 gold (3849 goes in tax).
Purchased 33 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 65967 gold.
Sold 13 Cards: Death to Duke Merchant MD for 13000 gold (2275 goes in tax).
Sold 9 Cards: Judgement to Duke Merchant MD for 9000 gold (1575 goes in tax).
Sold 10 Cards: Justice to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 10 Cards: Strength to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 11 Cards: The Chariot to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold 8 Cards: The Devil to Duke Merchant MD for 8000 gold (1400 goes in tax).
Sold 10 Cards: Temperance to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 10 Cards: The Emperor to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 11 Cards: The Hermit to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold 11 Cards: The Empress to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold 10 Cards: The Hanged Man to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 11 Cards: The Hierophant to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold 5 Cards: The Fool to Duke Merchant MD for 5000 gold (875 goes in tax).
Sold 12 Cards: The High Priestess to Duke Merchant MD for 12000 gold (2100 goes in tax).
Sold 11 Cards: The Sun to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold 9 Cards: The Lovers to Duke Merchant MD for 9000 gold (1575 goes in tax).
Sold 8 Cards: The Wheel of Fortune to Duke Merchant MD for 8000 gold (1400 goes in tax).
Sold 9 Cards: The Tower to Duke Merchant MD for 9000 gold (1575 goes in tax).
Sold 7 Cards: The Magician to Duke Merchant MD for 7000 gold (1225 goes in tax).
Sold a Copy of Between Planets to Duke Merchant MD for 5000 gold (875 goes in tax).
Sold 11 Cards: The World to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold 21 Cloaks of Invisibility to Duke Merchant MD for 10479 gold (1833 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Copies of Have Space Suit - Will Travel to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 3 Copies of Double Star to Duke Merchant MD for 15000 gold (2625 goes in tax).
Sold 4 Copies of Red Planet to Duke Merchant MD for 20000 gold (3500 goes in tax)
Purchased 39 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 77961 gold.
Sold 9 Copies of Beyond This Horizon to Duke Merchant MD for 45000 gold (7874 goes in tax).
Sold 3 Copies of Farmer in the Sky to Duke Merchant MD for 15000 gold (2625 goes in tax).
Sold 3 Copies of Rocket Ship Galileo to Duke Merchant MD for 15000 gold (2625 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Copies of Citizen of the Galaxy to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Purchased 67 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 133933 gold.
Purchased 30 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 59970 gold.
Sold 27 Air Knives to Duke Merchant MD for 53973 gold (9445 goes in tax).
Sold 27 Bows to Duke Merchant MD for 10800 gold (1889 goes in tax).
Sold a Bit of Silver to Duke Gasoline MD for 499 gold (87 goes in tax).
Sold 99 Brave Stars to Duke Merchant MD for 74250 gold (12993 goes in tax).
Sold 41 Breakfast Bars to Duke Merchant MD for 30750 gold (5381 goes in tax).
Sold 20 Bull Whips to Duke Merchant MD for 15000 gold (2625 goes in tax).
Sold 4 Copies of Job: A Comedy of Justice to Duke Merchant MD for 39996 gold (6999 goes in tax).
Sold 4 Copies of Sixth Column to Duke Merchant MD for 20000 gold (3500 goes in tax).
Sold 3 Copies of Starman Jones to Duke Merchant MD for 15000 gold (2625 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Copies of The Rolling Stones to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold a Copy of The Star Beast to Duke Merchant MD for 5000 gold (875 goes in tax).
Sold a Copy of The Puppet Masters to Duke Merchant MD for 5000 gold (875 goes in tax).
Purchased 39 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 77961 gold.
Sold 6 Copies of Space Cadet to Duke Merchant MD for 30000 gold (5250 goes in tax)
Sold 32 Breakfast Clubs to Duke Merchant MD for 24000 gold (4200 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Copies of Time for the Stars to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Copies of Tunnel in the Sky to Duke Merchant MD for 10000 gold (1750 goes in tax).
Sold 5 Copies of Variable Star to Duke Merchant MD for 25000 gold (4375 goes in tax).
Sold a Copy of The Door into Summer to Duke Merchant MD for 5000 gold (875 goes in tax).
Sold 2 Emerald Athames to Duke Merchant MD for 35998 gold (6299 goes in tax).
Sold 5 Doses of Magic Powder to Duke Merchant MD for 11000 gold (1924 goes in tax).
Sold a Diamond Bling to Duke Gasoline MD for 11500 gold (2012 goes in tax).
Sold 32 Empty Jars to Duke Merchant MD for 28768 gold (5034 goes in tax).
Purchased 100 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 199900 gold.
Purchased 60 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 119940 gold.
Sold 76 Night Sticks to Duke Merchant MD for 57000 gold (9975 goes in tax).
Sold 76 Night Clubs to Duke Merchant MD for 57000 gold (9975 goes in tax).
Purchased 47 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 93953 gold.
Sold 25 Morning Stars to Duke Merchant MD for 18750 gold (3281 goes in tax).
Sold 41 Empty Vials to Duke Merchant MD for 32759 gold (5732 goes in tax).
Purchased 22 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 43978 gold.
Sold 29 Reznor Blades to Duke Merchant MD for 21750 gold (3806 goes in tax).
Sold 6 Sacrificial Daggers to Duke Merchant MD for 4500 gold (787 goes in tax).
Purchased 6 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 11994 gold.
Sold 21 Water Knives to Duke Merchant MD for 41979 gold (7346 goes in tax).
Sold 50 Swords of Omen to Duke Merchant MD for 37500 gold (6562 goes in tax).
Purchased 30 New Bags from Duke Gasoline MD for 59970 gold.
Sold 137 Sacrificial Swords to Duke Merchant MD for 239750 gold (41956 goes in tax).
Sold 93 Sharp Swords to Duke Merchant MD for 185907 gold (32533 goes in tax).
Purchased 183 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 365817 gold.
Sold 19 Fire Knives to Duke Merchant MD for 36100 gold (6317 goes in tax).
Sold 36 Short Swords to Duke Merchant MD for 27000 gold (4725 goes in tax).
Sold 3 Summon Stones to Duke Merchant MD for 14997 gold (2624 goes in tax).
Sold 5 Pieces of Ancient Wood to Duke Merchant MD for 24995 gold (4374 goes in tax).
Purchased 42 New Bags from Duke Merchant MD for 83958 gold

-- Timekeeper 7th March 10:09

CHEEERIST! I hope you don't mind, but I make a habit of staying out of anything not directly KOT related; the commodities market definitely applies. Even so, that was brutal. I've never even had two million. Sadly, I suppose Merchant now does.
When I think about it, this is precisely the kind of exploit the Great Lords have gotten immensely upset about; previously, it was books.
I kinda wish he'd had to do this one bag per click. Then it might have been really impressive. Doc Mackie 10:52, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
Gasoline definately looks like a mule.. from that log he profited to the tune of about 600,000, but now only has 200,000... I've never managed to spend 400,000 in a few hours... MrFoo 11:17, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
They pulled the same crap with me, but it hurt less. I used to buy Blank Talismans for 2100 GP until those two took me for about 600,000 GP and left me with around 300 blank talismans. I still have the stall monkey report if anyone wants me to post it here. I was on a Bling Wraith killing spree at the time and had a bunch of gold blings, so I started enchanting talismans and selling them. I more than made back the money, but I won't be buying blank talismans (or anything else store bought) for more than Pirate Hat prices anymore. I've been known to take excess stock to other shops and sell it, but it's always been items they can sell at a profit, never with the intent of breaking the bank on them. If I find a chance to do it at Merchant's shop, I'll make an exception. -Jon 16:38, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
Might I suggest that ALL shop / stall owners put who runs them on the wiki. As a chalk carrying member of the Stone Cold Club I'm happy to swing by and tag the hell out of his shops. Public opinion might work... Phw 21:08, 7 March 2007 (GMT)
Thanks for the support guys. Im currently in thief training. He will get his. If you want to help my effort then any cracked summon stones greatfully accepted (I dont want to give him one), any fungal spray spells, large snowballs or poop is also needed. If you want to dis him feel free. If you want to summon him then please coordinate with me as I dont want to waste summons taking him from one arkward place to another. Chalking abuse and spreading the word on him is another great idea. Trading posts and Tribbles another. A boycott of his shop (Merchants Goods) would be nice as well. What is needed more than anything is to keep them hat free and a regular report on their locations.
As far as location goes, the game puts out a lot of information in the form of the score tables (updated hourly right?) If you had a script that would check on the hour what your victim/suspect had been killing since the last update, you might get a good idea where someone was hanging out. Might be useful to finds hats too. Summon them to the mainland everytime they get to Oz.
Join the Fight here http://wiki.cities.totl.net/index.php?title=User:Timekeeper/Justice

- Timekeeper 8th Mar 11:02

I had this from Elsewhere :

Apprentice elseware says 'Timekeeper. The council of great lords have found merchant innocent
of illegal activity. Which is not to say we approve, but no laws were broken.'
Apprentice elseware says 'However, Lord Ruthven has purchased all of your bags at 500GP.'
Apprentice elseware says 'And you have one Boon from the council. This is a single request for an
addition to the game, subject to our agreement and time. 
It may not (significantly) benefit your characters, but should be a way to make your mark in the
game - a weapon, monster, item, spell, ability, quest. Contact us when you have an idea...'

Now moneywise its not what I hoped for but the boon, now thats cool and more than makes up for it all. Now what shall I suggest, this it going to take some serious thinking. Thanks Elsewhere, GLs and Darksatanic much oblidged.

- Timekeeper 8th Mar 20:10

As far as my personal revenge on Merchant goes, there is more to Cities than the rage that threatens to consume my fun of the game. I and a few friends have set a few polychromatic dragons to guard merchants shop not allowing any shoppers to pass. Apologies for the 2 that got away (feel free to despatch these).

I respectfully ask the community of Cities to allow my new pets to endure until his shop is closed for inactivity and he loses his prime location. I will be here laughing the whole time, happy with what has transpired. - Timekeeper 8th Mar 23:29

In the manner of staying out of this one, I'm also not going to strike against the dragons. Just... um, never do that to my shop, okay? I promise not to rip you off to the tune of 2,000,000 in return. :)
That said, I recommend you use your boon either to create a function in the Shops which would place a maximum value on transactions of any single item (probably can't; it would benefit your character) or a new shop spot, an empty lot, called the Timekeeper Place. Sure, anybody can use it, but it'll be a mark on the map which cost you 2 million. :) (Alternatively, you could create a Timekeeper Hall, possibly with a shop in it...?) Doc Mackie 09:08, 9 March 2007 (GMT)
You got yourself a deal there DM, as for the boon, all suggestions welcome but im rushing into nothing. Timekeeper 10:12, 9 March 2007 (GMT)
A valid course of action. Doc Mackie 12:28, 9 March 2007 (GMT)
can I ask something? As a Libran and as a fellow of the Legal Executives (LOL), it's astrologically and educationally imprinted in my principles to ask everybody in cities how long exactly they plan to continue their reprisal against Merchant/Gasoline and when will you feel as though they have suffered enough for it? The announcement that no law was broken, leading to the community deciding to unite against one person, leads me to suggest that any retaliation as a collective be considered with caution so that it does not become overbearing or unjustified. Without belittling Timekeeper's losses - the GPs were restored and a boon offered. Please judge Merchant/Gasoline for their offense and decide upon a punishment you feel suitable to that judgement and stick to it. We live in a civilized society and should not resort to bullying or mob culture. Let's stay dignified and get back to enjoying the game. (I am in favour of a reprimand, but a sensible one.)YFM 17:23, 9 March 2007 (GMT)
This will probably go on for a while because Merchant was a total asshole here. And on the subject of the gold, it wasn't restored, the bags were just bought back by the GLs at the new store price, so he only gained about 420k back. Kaos Dragon 17:44, 9 March 2007 (GMT)
I'm in total agreement with Kaos, and not least of which because Merchant did something similar to me. As I said, I found a way to turn it around, but that doesn't make it ok. And for the record, the community decided to unite against Merchant/Gasoline before the ruling from the Great Lords. I'm not in 100% agreement with their decision - it seems to me that the lesson here is that if it's a built-in oversight and you exploit it, you're punished (though not banned, luckily for me) but if it's a user oversight and someone can exploit it, then it's not punishable - but as I am not a GL, that's not my call to make. Knowing all this, there's a shop I found recently that I could exploit the hell out of in the exact same way as was done here. Because it's not illegal, does that make it right? In the opinion of some of us, it isn't and we're exercising our right to follow the allowed rules of the game to make his life at least 2 million GP worth of miserable. -Jon 22:14, 9 March 2007 (GMT)
Point. That said, there's a proposal by the GLs to set up a justice council for the wee folk like us. I'd give it a glance. Doc Mackie 00:16, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
I saw that, and I like it. I would certainly like to see the idea more fully explored. -Jon 05:11, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
While this isn't the most exciting of boons, perhaps the solution is requesting that the Great Lords add an extra input for shop owners to specify a maximum number of items they wish their shop to carry. If a person tries to sell items that would exceed that number, they'd receive a message similar to the one you receive when the shop doesn't have enough money to pay for the items. As a one time owner of a shop that bought and sold quite a few items, I know that this would be helpful not only to hopefully prevent situations like Timekeeper's. It would also generally be useful to help shop owners control their intake of goods. I closed my shop/stopped buying items after someone sold me 70 consonants and pretty much wiped out my store of cash. You know who you are :) (no hard feelings of course). Zingus 00:53, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
In addition to that, you could have an option to bar certain players from buying/selling in your shop. - Isambard 05:08, 10 March 2007 (GMT)
I like the above idea very much. Perhaps there could be a guild like the Merchants' Guild where you got additional perks like the above the more that you sold through your stalls (though I guess that might be a pain to code).Platypus

For the record, Merchant did the same thing to me. This is clearly not an isolated incident--he's making a career of it. I too have the Report that holds the proof. He bought all of my empty jars and grapes and sold me 400 Jars of Grape Jam. --Meteu

Then again, looking at his name we should have guessed he's in here to make money. From the trades I had with him I can tell he's always tough on business matters. But I don't think he can do much with 2M GP. I mean, most of the important items aren't sold anyway--Solune 15:31, 10 March 2007 (GMT)

The wiki and space

I heard on IRC that the wiki database takes up a ridiculous amount of space (more than 1GB), so I came up with a few ideas to reduce the size of the database and to prevent it getting too large again.

So, we've got 1GiB or so of data after 18 months of operation. That means that at the current rate, we'll be larger than the free space on carmilla by... oooh... 2070 or so. :)
We may want to look at pruning/archiving old history and deleted pages at some point, but I think we're a long way from that at the moment.
The suggestions below are generally good ones, but for the moment I don't see a pressing need to do anything about it. We have plenty of disk space available right now.
  • MediaWiki saves pages even after they've been deleted. These can be deleted permanently, as described here.
That's a possibility, except that few pages actually get deleted (and those that do have little to no data on them).
  • Every time someone makes an edit on a page, the edit history gets bigger, so even if you're removing text from a page, the database actually increases in size because of the edit history. On a page that's both large and regularly-edited such as Cities:Conversation, this quickly adds up to a lot of data.
  • Popular discussion pages like Conversation, Current Events and Suggestions could be moved to a message board and deleted. Message boards take up far less space because they don't store history. I like EasyForum because it's easy to set up and stores topics in files (no MySQL).
Personally, I loathe web forums. I find them very difficult to use in the way that I want, and I'd probably not read one if it existed.
  • Each topic of conversation could be kept on a separate page (like I've done with this topic).
  • People could use discussion pages more, instead of discussing things on the actual pages.
These last two are dependent on people actually doing what you ask them. Good luck. ;)

Isambard 06:22, 4 March 2007 (GMT)

Darksatanic 09:48, 4 March 2007 (GMT)

In the spirit of keeping the wiki database size down, this topic is stored on a separate page (edit).

my charcter cant log in

i know this would fal into the, we lost your password. but i was able to before, i logged out, tryed my other acc and thn when i went back to him i couldnt log on either, which is odd cuasse he is an old user, and i was just talking to ancev.

Not old enough. You're affected by the missing password problem. If you had a cookie in your browser earlier, then you would have remained logged in. Logging out would remove that cookie, and you would then unable to log in again. Darksatanic 15:41, 1 March 2007 (GMT)
arg. but i would have to be, i was loging in and out for i dont know how long this was the only time, well i guess ill just have to wait

Beat this

Phoenix-farming and hydra-farming are things from the past...

You attack the Pig.
You cause 3750 points of damage, and receive 277500 experience.
You lose a Glass Sword.
Your glass sword shatters!
You slay the Pig.
You gain 69 Slices of Bacon.
Now using Fists.

It was a badass pig... This 69th gen pig was attacking for 79 HP of damage ancev 15:15, 28 February 2007 (GMT-3)

Pigs are a tribute to the demo worldforge game "Acorn" written by one of my best friends. - ELseware

Indecision at the cities shipyard

ok, so im in the position at the monent to build either a caravel or a speedboat, and whichever one i build it may be some time before im able to make the other so i want to get the right boat first time. So to anyone who has experience: am i going to get much use out of the caravels thundersticks? will the speedboat require a new power crystal every 5 squares? am i in fact going to use either of them for any significant length of time? ultimately i want both of course but in the meantime.... z0ltar 18:47, 27 February 2007 (GMT)

Z0ltar, I have both, and have to say that you should ask yourself what you plan on doing until you can get the resources to build the other (I highly recommend having both). If you want to spend a lot of time traveling n the ocean (going to Oz/R1Yeh, visiting islands, etc), then I recommend a speedboat. If your goal is to kill lots of stuff, get a caravel. As for power, speedboats don't break too often, but it is highly variable (I went about 2 months on a power crystal, and others have broken before I even moved one space). I generally use speedboats to move in the ocean and caravels only to kill things. I avoid moving in caravels if at all possible due to the fact that I really don't like spending more than 1AP per square to move. --JAD 18:53, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
yeah, i think i know which way i'm going on this really. sure you can move loads faster in a powerboat but theres other ways to get to oz, so whats the use if you cant kill anything? (well, you can but sea monsters tend to have lots of hp) i was really just wondering if there was anything REALLY annoying about either of them that might change my mind. for instance does the carvel break much? ever? and what does it need to repair? doesnt say on the boats page.Z0ltar 19:21, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
Caravels wear out. Although like Rusty swords, they give you some raw material in return (not a lot though). I *never* travel in mine. If you want to kill sea monsters, I would either get a speedboat and use other ways to kill (glass swords, gorgan heads, midas wands, golden guns, etc). Or get a caravel and walk along the beaches, bridges and cliffs until you find sea monsters along the shore so that you can use your caravel cannon without actually moving and risking the caravel wearing out. Note that making the cannon balls and generating the black powder for the cannon is very AP intensive (and impossible if you haven't completed bomb squad quest). hendsch 20:17, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
Up to now I have managed to vorpally kill sea monsters so I didn't need a caravel. And the price of the canon balls frightened me (I don't like spending anything on a shot). So I would go for a speedboat. Especially if you plan to do the island quests or go to the Water dragon Totem/the bleak island--Solune 20:20, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
Personally, I'd suggest getting both if you want to kill sea monsters. Sail up to the critters in your speedboat, switch over to the caravel, and then kill the buggers. Yes, you'll have to get more supplies, but it's worth it IMHO -- Thog 20:30, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
You get the cannon balls which hit back when you kill the critter. the only thing that's expended is Black Powder MrFoo 20:35, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
Unless you miss. hendsch 21:56, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
People still miss? A slightly overconfident JAD 00:41, 28 February 2007 (GMT)
Provided that you have attended the 3rd Open Mic Night (and can play your instrument well enough) there is another option available; make a Caravel + a Survey Vessel. The Caravel for killing things and the Survey Vessel to move in. If you play for the correct winds and equip a walking stick you can move in a direction for 2AP/move in a Survey Vessel. Changing direction will cost another 5AP each time. It is not as good as a Speedboat, but it costs less to make, less to maintain (no Power Chrystals needed) and it can move almost at the same APcost as a Speedboat. --TerrorRemedy 22:47, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
so caravels break completely do they? as opposed to speedboats + survey vessels which get damaged to a repairable state? i think i may have to go on a power crystal hunt...Z0ltar 00:55, 28 February 2007 (GMT)
I made my speedboat first and think that was the right decision. It's absurdly expensive to move with any other vessel (especially the Caravel). However, since I started sailing, bridges have been invented (and are occasionally even maintained :) ), so that's another way for you to get to e.g. Bombardier Isle. As for the Caravel Cannon, it's an absolutely wonderful weapon and probably the best way to take out large sea life in the long run, although you can certainly use other methods. As others have mentioned, it certainly varies how long a power crystal lasts, but I'd estimate that on average it's about 100 moves. Keep a few spare, but they'll probably last you a reasonable amount of time. (And yes, you do eventually want both ships.) --Dragon 04:43, 28 February 2007 (GMT)

Comission a weapon maker

I'm not quite sure where I should put this. I thought about the trading post, technically this would be a trade. But I think there could be, perhaps, a new page for these type of requests.

I would like some weapons. One or two, at least, to start. Handmade, crafted, beautiful works of art. With nasty edges. I'm willing to pay top dollar for them, but perhaps you would like to trade in goods instead of cash. I have various things you may find of interest. Such as a pleathera of leather(a). I have ancient wood to make you weep for the lost forests. I have a list of spells and a few (perhaps not choice) cds. Umlauts and X's. Let me know where your interests lie and if you will craft a weapon for me.Copperisblue 14:04, 27 February 2007 (GMT)

Actually, I have one in progress and one completed that I'd be willing to trade away. Palantir me and we can chat about it (though I won't be in game until late this evening game-time) -- Durkon 15:02, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
I'd be happy to craft a weapon for you. Currently I have one finished and two not far from being finished. If you have a detailed concept already in your head, I'm sure we could figure something out. My palantir is always on Rockefellow 16:17, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
That said, there is apparently a page in existence for this sort of thing, it's called the Classifieds, and it has a flaw. Nobody checks it.
This is precisely the sort of glitch which created the KOT.
"We need an 'I Died!' page."
"But nobody'll check it except the dead people."
"...Well, we will."
Would any theory like this work for classifieds? Only Craigslist people check Craigslist, but if people could band together to make a point of reading the Classifieds for more than just themselves, it might do some good. Sorta like the Trading Post. Doc Mackie 18:26, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
Actually, it might help to put a link on the main page. With it not there, I always forget it exists... -- Thog 18:59, 27 February 2007 (GMT)

whens the last wiz quest opening

well its been way past 5 shamans and yet it still says its closed on the wiki, and i havent bothered to check it out. if it was going to be done after the holidays, why isnt it done 2 months after that. bobtheslayer the all mighty 04:32, 26 February 2007 (GMT)

Hey, I'm as impatient as the next guy for the wizard level quest to start (I still check the starting square every week or two to see if there's been a change). But I'm not complaining because there has been a ton of new content added lately: a new section of tunnels, a new oz city, a new wizard quest (I understand there was a new armourer quest to, but who cares about them? *grin*), the cocktail quest, the blue flower quest, pets, pentacles, etc. Plenty to do. hendsch 14:51, 26 February 2007 (GMT)

hum i see. valid point. yet i still wonder if it will open, since this was anouced before any of those, i think. bobtheslayer the all mighty 23:58, 26 February 2007 (GMT)

ye, but since it's a free game we just have to wait - YFM X

Kraken by Kraken shop

I just killed a Kraken that may have been someone else'. Or someone may have given up on it after throwing 91 arrows into it (perhaps 100 arrows, 9 missing?). It was down about 1820hp, and had 91 arrows in it. Didn't realize until I was done with it. If you want your arrows back... you can have them. Along with pretty much everything else I found in it (even my melted demonic weapon remains).density 00:43, 26 February 2007 (GMT)

Growing Lettuce in Valleys?

Well, I just planted about 60 Magic Beans in a Valley and being Fire Aligned, I got approximaely 15 Bags of Coffee Beans and 45 Sun Flowers. I even grew 2 Beanstalks (that was awesome).

BUT, I have got not one Lettuce. Any suggestions? --Bubba_the_Shy 11:25, 25 February 2007 (GMT)

I believe Lettuce is grown on roads, by anybody. Sir Garry 15:44, 25 February 2007 (GMT)
I thought that was only for Potatoes, Carrots and Onions... --Bubba_the_Shy 20:04, 25 February 2007 (GMT)
I grew a lettuce in a valley recently, right after I became water aligned. I figure that's probably what it is... you gotta be water. 21:11, 25 February 2007 (GMT)
See, now you've got me curious, because I don't remember having to trade for lettuce, and I'm Air aligned. Doc Mackie 21:13, 25 February 2007 (GMT)
60 Magic Beans can still be bad luck. The cabal has an habit of disturbing the RNG--Solune 21:21, 25 February 2007 (GMT)
I doubt the last point since there is no Cabal. No member of any non-existant cabal 10:38, 26 February 2007 (GMT)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bobtheslayer (talk)
What? What are you talking about? What cabal? There is no cabal. What are you talking about, Bobtheslayer? Eruantion (Earth) Leave a Message! 16:43, 27 February 2007 (GMT)
Hmm, as I said, I never grew any lettuce with any alignment other than water (I was mostly air and fire) and in a week of being water I grew two. It's not a valid scientific claim or anything, especially since you said you grew it as air... Maybe the answer is some complicated function of your starsign, the baby you get from Harvey's, your current alignment and the exact phase of the moon this exact time 20 years from now... that'd be wicked. vloodo 02:35, 27 February 2007 (GMT)

I am a moron, Blue Flowers quest.

I posted this on the quest talk page, but I'll post it here, too. Why? I am desperate.

Okay. I fully admit I am a moron. A total idiot. Walking up the mountain with a friend, I decided "Hey! I'll turn myself into a toad!" to get around all the nasty beasties. Apparently in my infinite wisdom I didn't realize that my mittens, scarf and nice warm jumper would be unequipped. Go Ade! So, I try to make it to the top of the mountain. Yeah. Bad idea. I now have severe frostbite. 3 to 4 moves will kill me. Problem is, if I die, so will my fish. He needs to be fed and insurance will totally kick my ass. I cannot break a talisman because I am a toad, and I cannot summon a doctor for the same reasons. Nor cast healing spells, or apply clean bandages. My friend abandoned the quest, and even if he started a rescue operation right now, it'd take days to get to me. By that time my poor fish would be dead.

Can someone on the top of the mountain please, please venture down and offer some medical services? Once I'm in the city I will compensate you some way for your trouble. Gold, items, whatever. I'm Ade the fire aligned toad. I'm probably pretty close to the top of the mountain.

Hell, if you don't want to heal me yourself just summon someone who can, I'll repay the both of you for your effort. --Ade 14:14, 24 February 2007 (GMT)

I don't think that summoning works on the the Mountain Trail or in the City of Gold and Lead. You might just have to wait until someone passing by decides to heal you, or have someone summon you off the mountain. (aside) Unless the GLs nerfed it, there was one square in the City of Gold and Lead where summoning worked, but I'm not saying which one that was. Best of luck.Gonzometro 20:16, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
Also, if you run out of HP from frostbite, you should wake up in the Water City Hospital. Quite a way from where you are, but you won't lose your fish. Armourer Syagrius 20:19, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
I gave up. I asked my friend to summon me and it didn't work. So I just commited suicide. Woke up in the great plains at the rescue center. So I essentially teleported to the other side of the planet. Wasn't too bad, all I have to do is get summoned back to Oz. thanks for the advice, guys. --Ade 22:44, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
Hmmm, postmortem notes: Personally, I would've played the waiting game and let the Goldfish starve. Honestly now, saving my own skin in no man's land seems a higher priority then feeding my freaking Goldfish...
That said, if I recall historical expeditions onto icy wastelands correctly, when adventurers got lost with no food at all, they would eat the animals! A great game feature, no? --Bubba_the_Shy 11:25, 25 February 2007 (GMT)

"I would've played the waiting game and let the Goldfish starve." I love my goldfish and ferret. They shouldn't have to suffer because I'm an idiot! I invested so much into them, it'd be a total waste to let them die. Plus, it'd take at the very least days for someone to get up me, and that's even if they were capable of healing me, or cared. It took an enormous amount of effort to get as far as I was, regardless of the fact that I was a frog and using invisibility spells half the time I was on the mountain. I think the same would apply for a lot of other people, too. My AP would have maxed out and started to go to waste long before someone found and healed me. --Ade 15:56, 25 February 2007 (GMT)


I've created a pentacle, rather inconveniently located at 41E 204S. I seemed to gain 3 mana at the first hour mark I stayed there. Anyone interested in joining me? Place your name below and I'll start a summon chain. hendsch 21:10, 23 February 2007 (GMT)

I would, execpt for three things: 1. I'm a cities guard. 2. i'm not spell caster person. 3. I'm just about to kill a Kraken (under 4000 HP left) --Qazxcv 22:30, 23 February 2007 (GMT)

Yep. Instead of getting 1 mana I got 3. I also got 3 spells at midnight instead of 1. Sucking the mana out of a watch bling still only got me 2 mana though. hendsch 00:05, 24 February 2007 (GMT)

I also got another spell sometime in the last 9 hours. I also note I should have 9 more mana than I did after midnight (3 3hour cycles) but I have 11 more. It would be great if I had set this up near the free party. Then you could sit at the pentacle on the hour to get the extra mana and spells, then sit at the party the rest of the time for the extra AP. I thought it was going to be like a mine: Some spell casting benefit that wears out after too much use. That's what I get for being greedy. hendsch 09:56, 24 February 2007 (GMT)

I'd like a summon if it's not too much trouble. Need all the mana I can get for hunting morpheus. Nuru nuru 11:33, 24 February 2007 (JST)
Summoned! hendsch 10:10, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
My Good Lady Domentzia would like a summon - but the wiki was being wiggy when she tried to post this :) Syagrius 16:39, 24 February 2007 (GMT)
Summoned! hendsch 19:07, 24 February 2007 (GMT)

rare fruit... on the market!!!

well me again. i have a bunch of fruit like pineapple, coconut, and pomegrante and just so people know i but some on the market. all at southern market for a reasonable price lower than all markets i presume. 15k each except for the coconut which is 20k, becuase it was the hardest to find. if it runs out just tell me. i will restock with 2 more coconuts, 5 more pineapples, and 3 pomegrantes, for your pleasure, so far i have 5 pine, 3 coco, and 3 pome, on the market so vist now if you want some, southern market just west of earth city.bobtheslayer

Please try not to advertise on the Conversation page. People looking for fruit will very likely be watching the markets via Citiesberg. (Not trying to single you out, it's just that if one person starts announcing when they market something, other people will too. And we don't want Vashka to start... ;) ) --Dragon 03:30, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
I'm thinking there needs to be some advertising system...
Good idea. In-game, there could be an option to send everyone a message via palantir (which, of course, would have to cost about 1000 AP to keep people from overusing it). Maybe a monthly newsletter (like the Citizen), but full of ads people can buy for a certain amount of gold. Perhaps a new terrain type that acts like a bulletin board where people can post messages? That may be too much like chalk. Of course, we could always just start a new wiki page where people can advertise their shops, stalls, market offers, and other wares that they don't want to put on the trading post. --JAD 09:23, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
Out-of-game, I like the idea of an advertising page. In game, I'd rather see ads show up on some sort of advertising palantir - last thing I want is for my communication and notices from TGL to be swamped by spam... -- Thog 13:13, 23 February 2007 (GMT)
well sorry guys how was i supposed to know... i dont care about markets unless theirs a power cystal involed
There already exits a page for advertising. It is called Classifieds. It was started some time ago by someone, but it never saw much action. How about reviving it? --TerrorRemedy 15:21, 24 February 2007 (GMT)

magic mining permit... huh

tried looking for this but i couldnt find any info what is this anyone know. bobtheslayer i sort of found it, but i dont get it whats the point of this

I gather that it allows you to set up an Anti-Hista mine. . . extaordinarily useful if you want to hunt Histas (20,000 HP) in the South-East Tunnels (or gag on bad puns.) I'm curious as to where you acquired it. Gonzometro 02:55, 22 February 2007 (GMT)
As am I. I still have yet to venture into that AP-sucking cave, and it's the last cave on my list. (Mind you, I still need to swing back into the NE and grab the map; kinda died after the talisman thingy. Doc Mackie 20:42, 22 February 2007 (GMT)
uh... since mackstings here i plead the 5th bobtheslayer

stuff for more cd stuff... and happy birthday

hello all. ive been wondering since im just a lowly aprrentice with many... well some nice fruits and worndering if you would be so kind as to give me some cds. i have 6 coconuts, 10 pineapples, and 6 pomegrantes and hoping to finish off my colection i only need 13 more. and i have 19, those 19 are:

Copy of All The Things She Said 
Copy of Atomic
Copy of Beautiful
Copy of Dancing Queen
Copy of Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend
Copy of 'Diamonds Are Forever'
Copy of 'Dirrty'
Copy of 'Express Yourself
Copy of 'G.A.Y.'
Copy of 'Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! (A Man After Midnight)'
Copy of 'Girls Just Want to Have Fun'
Copy of 'Go West'
Copy of 'I'm Coming Out'
Copy of 'I'm Still Standing'
Copy of 'I Will Survive'
Copy of 'It's a Sin'
Copy of 'Lady Marmalade'
Copy of 'Vogue'
Copy of 'Y.M.C.A'

o and try to wish me a happy birthday =P


aprentice bobtheslayer... and a merry christmas to all... im a bit late arent i

There's a page for this sort of thing. Try the Trading Post. Almost forgot--Happy Birthday! -Scrumbucket 02:27, 19 February 2007 (GMT)
Actually, there's a page for birthdays as well. :) Happy Birthday, BtS.

--JAD 02:09, 19 February 2007 (GMT)

i swear i totaly knew that. well thanks for the info

Morpheus and CDs

This is getting downright irritating. I've killed over a dozen Morpheus, and have yet to see a single copy of You Spin Me Round. What kind of rate is that blasted CD supposed to be dropping at, and would The Great Lords consider making it at least a little more likely? Barring that, any chance we can get something else dropping the CD as well? I understand it's supposed to be hard to become a Shaman, but it's currently close to impossible because of the scarcity of that single CD... -- Elan 05:11, 17 February 2007 (GMT)

When I was killing Morpheus, they dropped "You Spin Me Round" approximately one time in 10-12. I killed a bunch and then traded the CDs to apprentices, but to be honest, even as a Duke it takes far more time and resources (both in terms of AP and weapons) to kill a dozen Morpheuses than one could ever hope to make back in trading the CD. --Dragon 05:33, 17 February 2007 (GMT)
Thats strange, I think i've got one, with a bunch of other CDs. And i've never gone below 100 S --Qazxcv 14:13, 17 February 2007 (GMT)
Well, have you been to the SE tunnels? There are some Morpheus(es) there as well. Also, you can probably get the CD from a treasure chest. I know I've gotten some rare ones from chests (not YSMRR though). --JAD 17:41, 17 February 2007 (GMT)
I have opened...quite a few treasure chests, and gotten a number of rare CDs, but not YSMR. I suspect treasure chests might not have them. --Dragon 19:21, 17 February 2007 (GMT)
Now I'm up to 21 Morphys without a CD. Just to ask the question, has anyone gotten the CD within the last few weeks? Any chance there's a bug that's not letting it drop? -- Elan 07:23, 25 February 2007 (GMT)
I got one. --Dragon 08:16, 25 February 2007 (GMT)

I got You Spin Me Round from a group of Asbos today. Vashka 16:46, 25 February 2007 (GMT)

I believe Asbos are level 2 Oz monsters; Morpheus is level 3. I'm guessing you got lucky and got something from a higher table--I've killed hundreds of Asbos and they've never dropped YSMR. I suppose the drop tables could have changed recently, but I doubt it. --Dragon 23:38, 25 February 2007 (GMT)

New Pets

There's finally a way to obtain better pets. According to elseware, those who have an 8 week old goldfish can get a pet license from Harvey's farm and then buy new pet eggs from pet stores somewhere. As new info is discovered please document it in the new Pets section. Kaos Dragon 20:10, 16 February 2007 (GMT)

This isn't barred to those what have a dead goldfish, is it? I seem to have one, myself. Doc Mackie 21:34, 16 February 2007 (GMT)
Just get a new one. They're for sale at the gold/lead city, although that's a little expensive... Kaos Dragon 21:41, 16 February 2007 (GMT)
I fear you missed my point. Harvey doesn't take well to those what don't take good care of their pets, and I didn't take proper care of mine. Is there a mark on your soul for letting your goldfish die? Or is it merely enough to take care of one for a short time, then be done with it? Doc Mackie 22:11, 16 February 2007 (GMT)
Hmmm. Can you borrow an 8 week old goldfish? Or buy one of the new pet eggs from someone who has an 8-week old goldfish? hendsch 21:57, 16 February 2007 (GMT)
If you want a pet, but can't be bothered looking after a goldfish for 8 weeks first, why not approach one of the pet sitters from the Lucky Smells Goldfish Kennels to do your dirty work for you! A world of kittins and ferrets awaits!

p.s. if you are thinking of upgrading, please take advantage of our re-homing service for your goldfish if you no longer require their services, no healthy pet should be put down! Spugmeistress 22:18, 16 February 2007 (GMT)

I'm sure it's no problem if you've let a pet die. You could smack things with your baby and let it starve and still get another one once you get out of the dungeon. Kaos Dragon 22:22, 16 February 2007 (GMT)

"Blinky is 4 weeks old and harmless." i guess its no coincidence this appeared the same time as the pet license thing did, and that its related to his xp, but the question is: has anybody got a pet that isnt harmless? and how many xp does it take? Z0ltar 00:09, 17 February 2007 (GMT)

My ferret's mostly harmless and it's got 21XP, but it was still mostly at 19. Kaos Dragon 00:14, 17 February 2007 (GMT)
Blinkys on 21 xp and is now mostly harmless, but he was still just harmless at 20xp. his tohit has gone from 10% to 20% but everything else is the same. are you sure your ferret was mostly harmless at 19xp? maybe its just different for different pets Z0ltar 23:47, 17 February 2007 (GMT)
Actually I'm not that sure now... Whenever someone else get a new ferret, they'll find out. Kaos Dragon 02:11, 18 February 2007 (GMT)

From IRC, regarding harmless pets:

[11:39]	<Sertularian>	elseware, does their accuracy improve with experience?
[11:39]	<elseware>	yes.
[11:39]	<elseware>	but it takes a while to get them to "Elite"

Incontinence issues

Something very strange and annoying is happening. I keep getting pounds of poop. Whenever I equip something or move or do anything I get many, many pounds of poop; each with its own 'You gain a Pound of Poop.' message. I currently have over 43,000 and counting. Anyone else getting this? Nuru nuru 17:30, 16 Feb 2007 (JST)

err... no :S Z0ltar 09:11, 16 February 2007 (GMT)
Bug in kittins.
Nuru Nuru: I'd like to exchange this 22 tons of poop for gold
Alchemist: Er...
I assume this worked? I do hope so. It would mean (at last!) a use for alchemy. Doc Mackie 22:12, 16 February 2007 (GMT)
Just imagine if your kittin turned into a cow?hendsch 20:07, 16 February 2007 (GMT)

Ok, an official from the council came along and took a huge steaming mass of poop in the night. (But not before I'd put a few hundred on the market, teehee.) It would appear my kittin, Rat tail, was a very sick little boy. Nuru nuru 7:28, 17 February 2007 (JST)

"Something very strange and annoying is happening. I keep getting pounds of poop. Whenever I equip something or move or do anything I get many, many pounds of poop; each with its own 'You gain a Pound of Poop.' message. I currently have over 43,000 and counting. Anyone else getting this?" - Nuru nuru 17:30, 16 Feb 2007 (JST). - Thats get my quote of the year vote. - Timekeeper 21:48 16 Feb 2007 (GMT)

Damn the Pseudo RNG

You attack the Roc.
You cause 30 points of damage, and receive 450 experience.
Your Tri-Crow Bow (15 15x91%) has worn out.
You lose a Tri-Crow Bow.
The Roc attacks 6 times.
The Roc misses you.
The Roc causes 5 points of damage.
The Roc causes 5 points of damage.
The Roc misses you.
The Roc causes 5 points of damage.
The Roc causes 5 points of damage.
Now using Fists.

At least I got one shot out of it. This is shortly after two Daemonic Great Swords wore out too. I think I'm going to cry now. :( --Philipjfry

Heh, been there. The very first Murder Bow to be created in the game broke on the first shot as well (on the same day as I also broke a DGS, a DCS, and a Fire Bow). I mentioned it on IRC, and the admins were...less than sympathetic. (I believe the exact phrase used was "sucks to be you."  ;) ) --Dragon 17:41, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
I wonder if something's wrong, though. I just lost an Air Sword and an Air Catana on the same Jabberwock. Doc Mackie 23:12, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
Addendum: And a Fire Knife within 45 minutes. It's been an expensive day. 23:22, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
i use my murder bow all the time and it hasn't karked it yet... Zoological 06:59, 28 February 2007 (GMT)

Save Jane Everyone

Every time I check in on Jane she has either been killed or left in a most dull situation. How much more can she take and how much more can I? I have compassion for lines of computer code and I feel this urge to ask people to treat her better. Can someone make me a save jane everyone T-Shirt? YFM 01.49 15 Feb 2007 (GMT)

I'll buy one, all i get when i login is her on a retreat. --Qazxcv 02:19, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
Or you could just do badges, they'd be cheaper... Sir Garry 03:52, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
i can understand her being on a retreat so that one mind can have the exclusive control, but what's the point of killing her 10 times by an eagle ? I suggest we all unite and bring her to a well deserved retirement--Solune 08:44, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
Jane Everyone reminds me of that guy in Memento[2], you know the one who writes everything down on post its. Jane Everyone is like that but without a pen. -- Timekeeper 19:29, 15 February 2007 (GMT)
and she reminds me of my sister when she would purposely kill the Sims. ): YFM 14.54 16 Feb 2007 (GMT)

Functionality Ahoy!

Heads up: Goldfish seem to actually do something now. (At least mine does.) -Scrumbucket 17:44, 9 February 2007 (GMT)

Mine seems to as well. I tried testing it out by attacking a llama, but Goldy missed everytime. Once he ran out of AP, he stopped attacking. He gained one XP after I finished off the llama. Anyone know if goldfish get more XP for landing a hit? -Unstenk 03:59, 10 February 2007 (GMT)
Tiger didn't get anything when I killed a monster, but he got 1 XP both times he landed a blow. BTW, it looks like goldfish AP regeneration is close to 1 per hour. I've been updating the goldfish entry on the unique items page, all the information I know is there. -Scrumbucket 04:28, 10 February 2007 (GMT)

Just managed to get my hands on a kittin. Was called 'Patches the Stray', but can be renamed just like the goldfish. 30 maxAP, 20% to-hit, 10 damage. Whoop! I hope young 'Rat tail' (as he has been redubbed) doesn't eat little Neba neba the goldfish. Nuru nuru 22:27, 10 February 2007 (JST)

Ooh, JAD wants a kitten. Where'd you find him? What does he eat? --JAD 15:41, 10 February 2007 (GMT)
I wish I could say where I found him, I really do. He eats fish and dairy according to the drop-down menu, but he hasn't stopped being stuffed just yet. Nuru nuru 11:43, 11 February 2007 (JST)

Ok, since I can't have a kitten, I cracked and bought a goldfish. Poor substitution, but it will have to do. JAD Jr. is currently one day old, and I feed him shaky flakes. That part I get. He has 1 damage with 10% to-hit and 15AP. I understand that he is supposed to be a vicious creature that will attack my foes. The problem is that he doesn't seem to be attacking anything. I killed some manatees earlier today, and after shooting them with my golden gun, JAD Jr. just sat there and did nothing. Is there a trick to making him attack? Also, why would I put him at my feet? I know I'm about a month and a half late on the pet thing, but I don't understand. Will someone please explain these things to me? Thanks. --JAD 02:07, 12 February 2007 (GMT)

You have to put him by your feet while fighting monsters, then pick him up again when you're finished. I don't know what would happen if you walked away without picking him up. - Isambard 02:20, 12 February 2007 (GMT)
Putting a pet by your feet is just like equipping them. You don't need to pick them up each time you want to move. Incidentally, where I found my kittin was probably just a one-off. I imagine there'll be another way to get them before too long. Nuru nuru 12:42, 12 February 2007 (JST)

Goldy (my goldfish) is currently 20% Evil. Anyone else have a good/bad goldfish? How do you make them more good/bad? Why is my goldfish Evil? - The (Not-So-Evil) Duke Unstenk 14:49, 12 February 2007 (GMT)

Has your goldfish been fighting monsters? Gotten the killing blow on any? Random4518 17:09, 12 February 2007 (GMT)
JAD Jr. is pretty clumsy. He must have spent upwards of 20AP (which, as best I can tell, regenerates every 30 minutes) missing the monsters I was attacking with my trusty GPS. 10% to-hit is low, but he is just an unlucky little bugger. Maybe I should name him something more terrifying. --JAD 19:32, 12 February 2007 (GMT)
James Bond the Goldfish killed 8 times so far. He´s a mighty bloodthirsty goldfish (neither good nor bad though). And he has 8 XP. Wonder what´ll happen at 10 - rockefellow 17:04, 13 February 2007 (GMT)
Shouldn't he be called James Pond? :) Spugmeistress 00:02, 14 February 2007 (GMT)
Goldy hasn't been getting any killing blows, but he has hit a few times. Also, it no longer says he's evil. Maybe it depends on the time? - Unstenk 17:42, 13 February 2007 (GMT)
Nothing seems to happen at 10xp (got 13 atm) and having blinky land killing blows doesnt look like it has any affect either. Maybe age is significant somehow? Z0ltar 19:35, 13 February 2007 (GMT)
It could be age. He turned 7 weeks old the day after it said he was evil, and it didn't mention him being evil anymore. Could the pets have kudos, and I somehow made Goldy lose some? - Unstenk 18:48, 14 February 2007 (GMT)
As far as I could tell my fish, Mushroom (only 2 days old) was born evil maybe he is the anti-christ of the fish world- ketchup 21:24, 14 February 2007 (GMT)

Dishonest Summoning

Duke Kaos Dragon summoned me off a patch of plums i was growing and harvested them. PLease join me in dissing him. It was 7 or 8 baskets of plums.

I'm demanding 50K gold or the return of the plums. Will anyone support me? Can the Watchmen put him in the stocks? - airdonkey

On the IRC Kaos_Dragon has said he won't give them back and doesn't care if he goes into the stocks. But I'd still liek to put him there anyway. -airdonkey

Blah blah blah... It's not against any rules. The stocks are for illegal exploits only. Dissing is just a waste of AP. Too bad you didn't ask nicely when you had the chance. Kaos Dragon 16:06, 8 February 2007 (GMT)
Don't pretend like you would have given them back no matter what i said. Fess up to how big a bastard you are, don't try and soften your edges.
You never even said please. You just dissed me and told me to give you your plums back rudely. Kaos Dragon 17:30, 8 February 2007 (GMT)
Let's be honest, it's bad form and bad etiquette. There are many things that aren't technically illegal in the game that we can do anyway. Boo sir. -- X-Himy 18:06, 8 February 2007 (GMT)
You could occasionally summon Kaos Dragon to random locations. That'd be pretty inconvenient for him. - Isambard 17:26, 8 February 2007 (GMT)
That wouldn't do much to me at all. Hats prevent summoning, so he'd be wasting time and AP trying. Kaos Dragon 17:30, 8 February 2007 (GMT)
I summoned someone and harvested once, mostly to see if it would work. He wasn't happy about it, either, but I gave him the plums back even though he was rude. If I recall, I even summoned him to the nearest trading post to make the trade. hendsch 17:50, 8 February 2007 (GMT)

All out plum war! I like where this is going. A bit of aggression never hurt anybody :P vloodo 23:12, 8 February 2007 (GMT)

I would certainly be willing to spend some AP to "punish" someone. I have several ideas for doing so, in fact. But I'm not willing to act as judge, jury, and summoner. Do we want to tolerate anti-social behavior so that anything possible is allowed? Police ourselves? or appeal to the 'King? hendsch 13:25, 9 February 2007 (GMT)
Ooo... I've been dissed some more! Such horror! HA! As if anyone other than a GL could actually do anything to me. Kaos Dragon 14:34, 9 February 2007 (GMT)
Actually, you do realize that if anyone happens to find you and pulls your hat(s), there's a lot people could do to you, right? -- Thog 15:40, 9 February 2007 (GMT)
Random summons! I'm so scared! Kaos Dragon 15:49, 9 February 2007 (GMT)
KD is at the booze party.
Enjoying yourself, are you? --Bubba_the_Shy 17:18, 9 February 2007 (GMT)
KaosDragon is a dork... Once, he started summoning me around and giving me tribbles in trading posts coz i destroyed some party hats... strangely, he didnt the same to the top hat destroyers, but only to me, coz i was a beginner in the game.
Nah, I was just in a bad mood that day. Kaos Dragon 05:07, 10 February 2007 (GMT)
I understand that you probably are abused IRL by peoples you cant react, and try to take revenge on the game, where you cant get the ass-spanking you deserve :-) anyway, in review, thanks to you i was able to make a fur coat and some Oz talismans - things pretty hard for a newbie. Btw, i suggest a trading embargo... nobody buy from nor trade with KaosDragon. While this surely wouldnt make him commit suicide, will make things harder for him
Hmmm. While I'm not inclined to take great offense to game faux pas, I have myself seen a multi-hundred-fold tribble infection. It's not fun. It begins to sound as though Kaos truly is a regular source of bad form.
Might I request that you tone it down a bit, KD? Let us all play nice here. macksting 08:22, 10 February 2007 (GMT)
Just wait until he's hatless, negative AP and summon him to Bleak Island. He'll never be able to leave.
Couldn't he just talisman out? I don't understand. It seems a more fitting retaliation would be repeated summonings to the theives forest where you could apply the art of stealing as taught by the mastertheif.
Jaysus, folks, remind me to keep a Golden Gun equipped if I ever piss y'all off. Doc Mackie 05:14, 11 February 2007 (GMT)
Wasn't Kaos Dragon the one who set off a lava bomb on holiday island, sending many players into limbo? I bet Duke Zombie remembers, he lost a Wizards hat due to it.
I just find it funny that most of the people who are posting "Lets attack KD" here, are not signing signatures... maybe they don't want to be attacked back... Just thought that was funny.... -All Awesome Stien
Considering what they're discussing, it seems like I wouldn't want my name known, either. I'm staying out of both sides of this, myself. -- The All Self-Important Doc Mackie 09:00, 11 February 2007 (GMT)
That would be good advice, but I love KD, so I cant... So I'm gonna send him kudos. Cause thats how I roll. -The even more (then Macksting) Self-Important Stien
It's ironic. They don't sign with their usernames because they don't want to be found out, yet by doing so they've exposed their IP addresses. Not too smart of a move... The Evil Genius Kaos Dragon
Are you threating to hack people? Enjoy it dude. And thanks for giving me that final push to retire from this game. Whenever people get together and do something amazing, inevitably the ugly side of human nature has to ruin it. Here's to taking the fun out of games. I'm done. bye- airdonkey.
Hey, man, he's making a good point. Folks, let it be known that simply failing to sign only works if you discuss something from a library computer, and intermittently; dialup, to my understanding, can also make you about as difficult to trace. Which, again, only applies insofar as knowing what the server hub is just isn't useful. Doc Mackie 17:57, 11 February 2007 (GMT)
Hey! I don't act evil in game because my life sucks. I rarely get on if I'm in a really bad mood. I just act evil in the game because it can be lots of fun sometimes. The only in game things I've gotten worked up about IRL are the undead dragon and Wiz hats. This is all just a game, and I play to have fun. Even if that means being evil sometimes. Kaos Dragon 00:28, 12 February 2007 (GMT)
At the end of the day, it's just a game. Don't spoil it for anybody else, no matter how good a day it gives you. So sayeth Doc Mackie of the Other Knightly Order of Self-Importance. 02:35, 12 February 2007 (GMT)

Wiki headlines to be visibly hierarchal through indentation?



<space><space>A2 Headline

Would this be possible? --Bubba_the_Shy 00:23, 5 February 2007 (GMT)

Maybe with some admin skills, sure, but not at the moment. You can try things out in the Sandbox if you've a mind to experiment. PotatoEngineer 00:32, 5 February 2007 (GMT)


I just got this message while foraging in the Desert. The action caused my Cocktail buzz to wear off at the same time (but I doubt that fact is relevant) Any ideas on why I got the mana? And no, I'm not doing any wizard type quests. --Gretchin 21:53, 4 February 2007 (GMT)

You are a bit hot.
You are sober.
You lose some of your cocktail buzz.
You gain 4 Mana.
You forage...
You gain a Cactus.
It's a side effect of one of the cocktails - I got 4 mana by giving Ignatz the next batch of ingredients. Syagrius 03:44, 5 February 2007 (GMT)

Goldfish kennels

I propose to set up a pet-sitting service for devoted goldfish owners who wish to ensure the regular feeding of their pets whilst they are away from the game. If anyone is interested in looking after my kitty the goldfish, please sign up/contact me, and if you are interested in either looking after pets, or need your pets looked after, please add your details to the page! ta Spugmeistress 12:38, 4 February 2007 (GMT)

Venemous Eye

I just killed a duck billed version of one of these (at great effort) but it doesn't show up in the monster kill tables. On the other hand, I did get to listen to a song about them. Are they new? Platypus 10:21, 3 February 2007 (GMT)

Yeah, they started appearing when the Mountains of the Sun opened up. They classify as Eye, so it shows up with the E's. Kaos Dragon 15:12, 3 February 2007 (GMT)
Did you try a CTRL-F to search for the words? macksting 01:49, 4 February 2007 (GMT)

Sand Castles

I just finished putting together a page on sand castles, but it still needs some more info, particularly how much sand is used to make different sized castles. So here's a shout out for anyone interested in helping figure it out (or spading it, as I've heard it called on another forum) to grab their bucket and spade and get to work! If only I had thought of this during the beach party...

(No, I don't have too much time on my hands. I'm just too good at wasting time when I'm supposed to be doing other things. There's a big difference.) :) -Scrumbucket 20:03, 31 January 2007 (GMT)

I've added info on the AP costs. (And added the crazy-huge size.) Not much more info on size categories, though. --Dragon 03:15, 1 February 2007 (GMT)

Victory Points?

I just noticed on my 'Me' Page that I currently have 0 Victory Points. I didn't win this game yet, so obviously this is correct. What are these for? Flt 09:22, 30 January 2007 (GMT)

"Victory Points: 0" - Me neither. I wonder if by achieving great things (Quests, helping Great Lords/'king) we can get them? I wonder if they show up in League Tables? Eruantion (Earth) Leave a Message! 21:01, 2 February 2007 (GMT)
Just looked, and they show up as "victory points", but nobody yet has any. I doubt normal quests are involved. Eruantion (Earth) Leave a Message! 21:01, 2 February 2007 (GMT)

Yo ho ho and a...

Can a bottle of rum be made? And if so with what ingredients? Or must it be dropped from a monster? Any suggestions/directives? harvestbird 04:15, 27 January 2007 (GMT)

Yarrr, ye need to be lookin' in a treasure chest, matey! --Dragon 04:28, 27 January 2007 (GMT)
And the rum is a darn rare find in treasure chests too. I've opened close to a dozen chests without a single bottle of it. Syagrius the Disappointed
It was added recently (within the past few days), I believe. If your treasure chests were older than that..."find new ones."  :) --Dragon 04:57, 27 January 2007 (GMT)
I found one on a Roc and one on a Small Air Dragon, so they drop from monsters as well. --JAD 05:22, 27 January 2007 (GMT)
Yarrr, thank ye all for yer answers swift and true, which regenerated faster than me action points. harvestbird 05:41, 27 January 2007 (GMT)
Also, they're now on the markets. --Dragon 08:22, 27 January 2007 (GMT)
Any known uses for them? macksting 21:12, 28 January 2007 (GMT)

I just got one off a Thunderbird! And i bet they're needed for the mixology quest. - donkey

Haggis and Oats?

Stupid question: Two create a Haggis, you need two sheaves of oats. Is this a new foodstuff (and if so, where does it come from) or is it just another name for wheat?

(I know wheat and oats are different things IRL, but I don't see mention of oats anywhere in-game or in the wiki...)

-- Thog 18:25, 26 January 2007 (GMT)

I saw some Sheaves of Oats on the market recently, next to Sheaves of Wheat. Not sure how they're obtained, though. Random4518 23:58, 26 January 2007 (GMT)
Sheaves of Oats can be grown using an earth-aligned player, just like sheaves of wheat.
  • Per my recipe book, you: Make a Haggis from 2 Sheep Lungs, a Sheep Stomach, an Onion, a Sheep Heart, a Lambs Liver, 2 Sheaves of Oats and a Pinch of Salt. Syagrius 02:10, 28 January 2007 (GMT)


I just got a load of GROINK messages when getting off the Ambulance (not in the message window, above that). Anyone else got those? Are they some kind of obscure error message, or something else? Rackmount 12:51, 22 January 2007 (GMT)

I also got a series of GROINKs at the same time but it wasn't related to the ambulance. I thought it was a hacker...--Solune 13:54, 22 January 2007 (GMT)
You're both right - it was the 'King fiddling :) Moj 23:24, 22 January 2007 (GMT)

Did we just do the time warp?

  Everything takes a jump to the left and then a step to the right.
  172800 seconds pass in no time at all.
  Everything takes a jump to the left and then a step to the right.
  172800 seconds pass in no time at all.
  Everything takes a jump to the left and then a step to the right.
  172800 seconds pass in no time at all.

Or was it a spell in response to the snowballs I threw and the pokey stick I wielded at my compatriots while waiting for the Gorgon? harvestbird 23:38, 21 January 2007 (GMT)

That was me, using Time Warps to try to cause the Gorgan to spawn (since someone suggested that was their purpose). I didn't realize other people on the same square would also get the message. Hmmm...I have no idea what they do now. (Idea from IRC: do they make fields grow?) --Dragon 00:26, 22 January 2007 (GMT)
Well, 172800 seconds is 48 hours, so might it be a way of skipping through tasks that are AP-intensive without the subsequent drain? Somehow, I think not, but one can dream ... harvestbird 01:15, 22 January 2007 (GMT)
Don't think so, but there's a bunch of wild speculation here. --Dragon 01:27, 22 January 2007 (GMT)

Throne of the Mountain King

I can't find anything about this on the wiki. A dwarf is sitting on the throne here and wants a new jewel for his crown. sadly i'm out of ap and without a jewel. the throne is a easy walk west from understuff, at 1052E 1003N. Somebody post what happens. Tulk

Alright, so i just took a few more doses of magic powder (these mines have been terrible for my health) and found out that giving the king a jewel of the mountain king gets you the south east tunnel map. But he says he still wants another jewel or something. Tulk

Idle Question

Can anyone think of a more embarassing creature to die to than a Cute Seal? No, no reason, just wondering... :/ -Scrumbucket 23:07, 20 January 2007 (GMT)

Rabbit. 17:34, 21 January 2007 (GMT)
I concur. Although, it was a pythonesque one. Eruantion 17:52, 21 January 2007 (GMT)
I forgot to sign in for that rabbit comment. Here is the story behind that death. Bastage bunny! Syagrius 21:23, 21 January 2007 (GMT)

Gulls and Seaside Monsters

I've been wandering along the beach and it appears that you can no longer attack sea creatures from the shore unless you equip a boat. Am I just being forgetful or is this a recent change? Platypus 12:11, 19 January 2007 (GMT)

Still possible when standing on a bridge!! --Bubba_the_Shy 17:35, 20 January 2007 (GMT)

Likewise I noticed you now can't attack creatures on crags unless you can climb or fly. I think its new (and a PITA). Naius 12:58, 21 January 2007 (GMT)

and in the island, as the stone borders are "un-climbable", you cant kill the gulls anymore. Ancev 18:52, 21 January 2007 (GMT-3)

Getting your School of Hard Knocks Supplies

For those hunting for the supplies needed for the higher levels of the school of hard knocks, the North-West Tunnels has proved a fruitful location for me. Mutant, Huge and Giant Monsters drop more copiously (and hit harder; beware!). I got six stings from a huge triffid and a similar number of crocodile scales from a reptilian foe.

You'll need plenty of AP, appropriate wands and aligned martial arts skills and please remember the principles of the League of the Lifted Lorax: kill everything to ensure respawning!

Just to reitterate, be very careful when fighting in those tunnels. I have encountered giant mutant triffids that do up to 180 damage (not to mention three levels of poison). The drops are good, but I'm not sure if they're worth it. My best has been 15 scales from one crocodile, but the thing had 1500HP and did up to 90 damage. The next 1500HP crocodile dropped 0 scales. I've lost many good weapons (Merz Bows, Vorpal Blades) and died twice down there. If you go, I recommend full insurance, spectacular to-hit, a LOT of good weapons, and some potions of healing. You'll need them. --JAD 01:42, 17 January 2007 (GMT)
maybe we should get a few doctors to hang out in the tunnels. IF you summon waterdonkey, you can have an on-call doctor in the tunnels who si nto actively played.
I've just realised I didn't sign the initial entry above (it was me, honest!) JAD is right; a wide health buffer and conservative combat strategies are essential. harvestbird 05:31, 17 January 2007 (GMT)
YESH! Conshervative combat! macksting 19:30, 19 January 2007 (GMT)
Anyone who has a caravel may want to explore using its <fnord> cannon in the Pool of the Mountain King. Those huge giant crocs go down like butter.

Time to figure out my problem (another fish topic)

I've got a fish. It's beautiful, and named after my wife. I love my fish (but not as much as my wife.) I couldn't bare to have it die on me.

I'm going on holiday with my wife, and leaving the fish behind. But I would very much not like my fish to die while I neglect it. Is there sanctuary in limbo (would nothing happen there?) Can I stable my fish at Harvy's farm? If I go to holiday island, will my fish flurish in the warm clime?

or should I ask for the help of one of the citizens in the cities, and ask someone to feed my fish for a few days for me?

Please advise, or offer to feed my fish. Terms to be negotiated.Density 15:22, 16 January 2007 (GMT)

I'll feed your fish, but i thought they were sticky... airdonkey
Where ever I go, the fish... it follows. Probably the best sketch in Monty Python's Meaning of Life. --Bubba_the_Shy 19:04, 16 January 2007 (GMT)
Neither fish (nor flake shakers) are sticky :) Moj 21:57, 16 January 2007 (GMT)
Can fish be kept in "suspended animation" by placing them in a bag? - Isambard 22:53, 16 January 2007 (GMT)
No. The game handles this kind of thing by keeping track of the last time it examined the state for the item, and working out what happened in between then and now. (It also does this for things like AP regeneration). This would happen whether it was in the bag or not. Darksatanic 10:57, 17 January 2007 (GMT)
I can take care of the fish, if you can figure a way to get it to me -- Otherwise I can (if you're willing and a trusting sort) log you on and feed it for you. If you want to go that route, you can Syagrius@wikimail your password to me so no one else sees it. Be advised, you cannot currently change your password, so if you give that out, the person will have the ability to log you on whenever. Your call, of course. Syagrius 02:53, 17 January 2007 (GMT)

Goldfish Tank?

Not having a Tank, I can't try this myself, but I wondered if there was any interaction between having a Goldfish and a Tank. For example, if you wear the Tank and place your Goldfish at your feet, does anything unusual occur? Just a random thought. :-) -Stelio 22:25, 13 January 2007 (GMT)

  • My goldfish died, I'm going to attack a feral cat with it. Dendrast 04:11, 15 January 2007 (GMT)
Didn't get any options when I mounted a Tank with my Goldfish by my feet. It wasn't my tank tho. Flt 09:41, 15 January 2007 (GMT)

Im at the Booze party with my tank, and am willing to tinker with a goldfish, if someone were to loan me one Spacer one 16:12, 9 February 2007 (GMT)

A Huge Mutant Water Dragon

... has been the death of me in the Pool of the Mountain King. Anyone who's up for summoning me back to the Earth City Flower Show will be rewarded with kudos and tradeable items once my AP have regenerated. harvestbird 02:16, 12 January 2007 (GMT)

Responding. macksting 02:44, 12 January 2007 (GMT)
Addendum: Summoned. Another service of the Knightly Order of Tubthumping.
Excellent; thank you very much indeed. harvestbird 03:07, 12 January 2007 (GMT)

Hey! I want my Karma Back!

It turns out that Cute Seals are neo-nazis
Evidence here

Does the kingdom lack a Gorgan?

I've been at the Palace of the Gorgan for around three days now, waiting with Dukes Midge and Rekindler. To the best of my knowledge, nothing has spawned during that time. Other adventurers have come in and out too, waited a while and then pushed off once more.

Have other folks experienced a long delay--and if so, just how long? harvestbird 21:54, 22 January 2007 (GMT)

The total number of kills on the kills table is also much lower than you would expect if the Gorgan spawned roughly once a day. - Isambard 22:38, 22 January 2007 (GMT)
I checked in about 5PM game time today (yesterday?), didn't see it, made a talisman and left. It shows up on my Tarot deck at this very moment though--at 115 squares north of the Bombadier's Den. I could be misunderstanding the mechanics behind unique spawns, but maybe it's not regenerating because it's not dying because it's stuck in the Interior? -Scrumbucket 03:36, 23 January 2007 (GMT)
Elan's been popping in and out over there for the last few weeks, with never a Gorgan to be found. Could be that I'm just missing it, but it could be that it's stuck in the central mountains. -- Thog 20:11, 23 January 2007 (GMT)
She's disappeared from the tarot now so I've sailed back to the isle to see if she'll respawn. harvestbird 05:36, 24 January 2007 (GMT)
Success! (There's a nominal queue--the patient Midge and Rekindler--which, to my discredit, I jumped. But I know you won't.) harvestbird 19:06, 24 January 2007 (GMT)

This week's party...

Has started! Come join the Dig My Grave Party (I'm on a They Might Be Giants kick) at 67E 30N. Easy access via the Standing Stones network, next to a healer, and right next to one of the southeast tunnel entrances. Major thanks to JADW27 for finding the spot before I could.

(Oh, and for those of you who palantired me asking for summons, I'll send them as soon as I escape from AP debt. Should be in an hour or so.) -- Thog 00:19, 23 January 2007 (GMT)

And so you don't have to look it up yourself: Stone XXII. 19:41, 23 January 2007 (GMT)

Current Fashion

The wiki says the current fashion is pimp-punk. So does my little hover tool-tip in my character. Still, I don't seem to be getting the bonus. Is the wiki wrong (oh no!) or did the game change in some way? vloodo 01:58, 21 January 2007 (GMT)

I was getting the bonus, but now i'm not. strange. --Qazxcv 02:09, 21 January 2007 (GMT)
I found the fashion, and I'm still getting the cutting edge message. Are you sure you're not accidentally Punk-Pimp? It also might be racing out if you're doing something on the hour. Kaos Dragon 12:10, 21 January 2007 (GMT)
Hmm, I'm getting the bonus now... I think it's from me, I'll investigate some more. vloodo 17:13, 21 January 2007 (GMT)

Summon to the Flower Show

I realize I am right next to it, but could someone please summon me (X-Himy) back to the Earth City Flower Show party? I am in a retreat. Stones will be returned, Kudos will be given. -- X-Himy 20:32, 12 January 2007 (GMT)

Responding. macksting 20:52, 12 January 2007 (GMT)
Edit: Didn't work. Are you wearing a hat?
That's four hats so far. Damn, Himy, you gotta arrange this crap ahead of time. macksting 21:02, 12 January 2007 (GMT)
Between two failed summonings, and stealing and tearing up your 8-some party hats, that took about 70 AP. Welcome to the party. You wouldn't happen to be the bugger what keeps destroying the Orin Scrivello's, would you? Doc Mackie 21:06, 12 January 2007 (GMT)
Jeez, I am sorry, I didn't even think of that. There is a gram of spice with your name on it when I come out of retreat. Thanks Macky. -- X-Himy 21:29, 12 January 2007 (GMT)
Very much appreciated. I promise not to do the same to you. macksting 21:32, 12 January 2007 (GMT)

Golden Gone Gone?

I just bought a Golden Gun at Seb's and broke a dojo talisman to give it to the trainer. I gave it as soon as I got there, then asked to train again. I was told I needed to give a Golden Gun again. I assumed something was lost in the communication with the server, so I looked in my inventory to bring up the Golden Gun again, but it was gone. This appears to have been a pretty pricey loss for no reason. Is the trainer actually asking for another Golden Gun, or did my careless button-pushing somehow cost me 60,000 GP for nothing? Has this happened to anyone else? If that's how it works, then fine, but if not, it would be really nice if the Great Lords could give me back my Golden Gun so I could try it again. I'm still at the dojo. Leoth 16:39, 8 January 2007 (GMT)

It is quite possible he is requesting the same thing twice in a row. Happened to me, but with less pricey items. -- X-Himy 17:14, 8 January 2007 (GMT)
Yeah, it's definitely possible--and I think with the rollback code in effect, you probably would have gotten the Gun back if it were reset. Do you still have the Dojo Talisman you got when asking him just now? (And ugh, don't spend 60k on a Golden Gun--paying Seb's outrageous prices only encourages him to keep them that high. There are other ways to get golden guns.) --Dragon 17:31, 8 January 2007 (GMT)

Great idea to count the Dojo Talismans, Dragon. I did, and still have the same number as I did before I transported, so I guess the conniving son-of-a-ninja is actually asking for another. I had no idea there was a cheaper source of Golden Guns; since they got nerfed, I don't have much interest in them anymore. I guess that'll teach me to comparison shop. Thanks. Leoth 17:58, 8 January 2007 (GMT)


From recent experience, there seems to be a lack of fellow duellists around at the moment for anyone signing up for the quest to actually fight against. This is not reflected in the Duellists wiki page, where alot of the people who signed up have since completed the quest/been killed and not re-signed up which therefore gives new signups false information about numbers. If people could check and remove themselves, or update their information, it would be very helpful :) --Spugmeistress 03:22, 8 January 2007 (GMT)

There are currently a mere 8 duellists in the game. Darksatanic 18:54, 8 January 2007 (GMT)
Perhaps the priest at the fire shrine could say something, when you sign up (and if you check in again before completing the quest), like "There are currently 7 other duellists out there. You be careful now!" -- Sertularian 22:24, 8 January 2007 (GMT)

We're Whalers On The Moon

Are there still any whales in the 'Kingdom? I've been checking periodically over the past week or so, and they haven't been showing up on my tarot list. Were they a one-time deal, or am I missing something? Erthbot 6 02:45, 6 January 2007 (GMT)

Charcoal swap

Me: an Earth aligned Armourer who has just spent 4 days mining. You: A Fire Character who has/wants to make 300-400 units of Charcoal. Together we are an awesome armor/bling/copper axe making duo. Profits split.

Any Takers? Palintir MasterPete.

Hey there.--Bubba_the_Shy 14:42, 5 January 2007 (GMT)

Bling Bling

I am now an armouror, and desire to make bling. I have 5000GP, I think I should be able to make 5 Bling Bling for 100AP. But I have no option to do so. Do I need 1,000 bits of gold, or gold pieces? The wiki does not seem to say that I need to visit Mr. Goodyear Pimp yet (I'll be saving that for when I'm a wiz), and lists the ingredients as 1,000GP and 20 AP.Skold 15:37, 3 January 2007 (GMT)

It's 1000 bits of gold per bling bling. No, you don't need to do the goodyear pimp quest first. A smith can also make the bling blings. To do anything further with the bling blings (like, say, make an opal bling or somesuch) you'll need to complete the goodyear pimp quest. Syagrius 15:45, 3 January 2007 (GMT)
That's what I thought it would be. I'll go change the bling page to say 1000 bits instead of GP. Skold 16:37, 3 January 2007 (GMT)

Monsters with Hats

Well, I suppose I've seen Pirtates with Pirate hats. Now I'm finding Brutes with lots of ale and a party hat. I guess they can pull christmas crackers with you, too. Never tried that.
Density 14:08, 2 January 2007 (GMT)

Yes they get a hat if you attack them with a cracker and they get the big bit. I don't know if they drop the contents of the cracker when they die--Solune 14:30, 2 January 2007 (GMT)
I believe they do drop the contents of the cracker, because I've seen a few Mists with hats on that actually gave me item drops when I killed them. Sir Garry 15:24, 2 January 2007 (GMT)
I rather like the idea of eight Brutes fighting over a paper hat. macksting 02:47, 12 January 2007 (GMT)

Acme Products

I went to the post office and ordered my box of parts. It said it would take a half a day, and charged me nothing. I waited half a day, nothing came in. I tried it again (since I still had my 20k), the office took my money, told me half a day and a time. I came back and found I had two packages! I have two boxes of parts.

and I can't do anything with either of them. I know I'm missing some of the parts, but I have no option to combine anything with my box of parts. Do I need to find a road runner to open that option? Thanks, smith skold

Read this. Everything you need to know or need to have is available there. You can find the roadrunner after you build your trap. Armourer Syagrius 16:38, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
Right, right. I've read that. I'm suppose to combine my box of parts with different things, but... how do I combine it with anything? There are no options to combine anything when I hold items I know have to go into the trap, or when I hold my box of parts. The box of parts does nothing, gives me no option to do anything. Skold 16:58, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
Do I have to open my box of parts someway? Cause I have no option for that, I don't know what is inside it.Skold 17:06, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
No, you can't combine it with anything until you have everything needed for the trap. You'll need a bowling ball and space rocket along with the other things in the picture. Syagrius 17:16, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
I should note that you do not need the cactus to combine the box of parts. If you want to give me cactii, I'll take them gladly, but you don't need it ;) Syagrius 17:26, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
ah, excellent. Thank you. I am working on selling my goods to buy a space rocket now. I know I need it.Skold 22:29, 1 January 2007 (GMT)

This week's party

Destroy All Monsters!!! has begun just outside of Tokyo 4 at 22E, 56N. Please stop by, kill some of the local critters and have fun! Later on there will be chips and punch, but right now it's mostly just dancing and monster killing. Oh, and I heard there might be girls to play spin the bottle with too. But that's just speculation. -Jon 13:20, 1 January 2007 (GMT)

First person to join! Thanks for the T-Shirt :) --Bubba_the_Shy 14:58, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
Is there any chance someone could summon me back to the party? -Jon 05:49, 8 January 2007 (GMT)
i just did, bad luck with the death :( --Spugmeistress 06:01, 8 January 2007 (GMT)
Thank you for the summon. Just as soon as my AP is above 0 (which will likely be in a day or two as I'm so far in the negatives) I will return your stone and send some kudos your way. The death sucks, but I can cope. Thank you again! -Jon 06:31, 8 January 2007 (GMT)

cocunuts,pomegrantes,pineapples for cds anyone

i need all but dirty and gay and when stien starts his party i will probley have enough of those fruits to total about 20 to 30 so if you need those fruits i will trade for the full set Apprentice bobthelayer

plz im a lowly apprentice in need

You're asking for 30 cd's when there's a number of apprentices who are looking for the exact same stuff. There's a few on the markets, but I'd suggest you start hunting. Or, you could trade on the CD Exchange Syagrius 23:18, 1 January 2007 (GMT)
also selling coconuts and pomergrantes and pineapples if wanted i have 5 pineapples, 6 coconuts and a2pomergrante plantir me if you want and i also have a few lime, lemons, and oranges bobtheslayer

The Year of the Snark

Happy New Year everyone! What kind of resolutions do you have for this year? Kaos Dragon 00:42, 1 January 2007 (GMT)

In Cities, tolerance towards other players. --Bubba_the_Shy 14:58, 1 January 2007 (GMT)

Bottomless Pit

Something just occurred to me. Did anyone ever figure out anything constructive to do with the Bottomless Pit near Air City? Or for that matter, with the untouchable Balrog (er, "Glamdrink Sucks!") right south off it? -- Thog 16:04, 31 December 2006 (GMT)

The bottomless pit is magic. Stand next to it and speak your heart's innermost wishes, and they will be granted.
The bottomless pit is indeed magic. As for Glamdrink Sucks!, it's unrelated to the Pit--and given what I know of its origins, I don't think it currently has any in-game purpose. --Dragon 04:10, 2 January 2007 (GMT)


So now you can build a BB with a bit of lead... anyone else get this, is it only an armorer thing? Are we getting a BB gun for christmas? But wont we shoot our eye out? -Quacksworth

Maybe if an icicle knocks your glasses off first. :-) A BB Gun is at the Northern Market; I'm curious to see what attributes it has. It's a bit pricey for me to check it out right now, though. Snare 22:51, 29 December 2006 (GMT)
Just for armorer thing. --Qazxcv 02:46, 30 December 2006 (GMT)
I can't make one. There must be something else needed for this. Also nothing shows up in my Recipie Book. Rockefellow 17:50, 30 December 2006 (GMT)
I (being a Fire-aligned Duke) can make one BB from 1 Bit of Iron (not from other kinds of metal) at the cost of 1AP. --Bubba_the_Shy 18:11, 30 December 2006 (GMT)
It's not just limited to Dukes. I'm an apprentice, and it works for me as well -- Elan 22:08, 30 December 2006 (GMT)

Seb's in Bentnob sells BB Guns, I think for 5000 Gold. I think it has a base damage of 4; no idea about how much it modifies your to-hit or how many shots you get. 16:07, 31 December 2006 (GMT)
They're apparently made of iron, not lead.
That said, it appears to be a base 4 damage per shot, with a x10 shot per turn. Anybody else here longing for the Red Ryder LE BB Rifle? Base 25... Doc Mackie 04:19, 1 January 2007 (GMT)

Gorgan in other locations?

So Elan's standing in the middle of the Gorgan's Palace, waiting for her to spawn. For giggles, I looked her up on the Tarot Deck:

You spread the cards...
The cards indicate that the nearest one is about 122 squares away to the North.

WTF? Is there a Gorgan running around the 'Kingdom somewhere? 122 squares north of the palace (73S) puts her somewhere in the ballpark of 31E 49N or so. -- Thog 04:59, 29 December 2006 (GMT)

I think there are a number of currently inaccessible monsters in "The Middle" for testing purposes or whatever. I looked for Friendly Slime once and there was some in there. Someone doing Standing Stones could probably confirm this by Tarot-ing the Gorgan again. Droll 15:04, 29 December 2006 (GMT)

Ancient Rooms

So, smith Skold is wandering around in the ancient castle for 12 hours or so, and is curious about the other rooms in the castle. Does the conservatory work like Holiday Island? Is the AP cost of making foodstuffs less in the kitchen? Is there anything to do in any of the rooms?Skold 20:18, 28 December 2006 (GMT)

You can do some dancing in the Ball Room - if you're invited that is. 09:02, 29 December 2006 (GMT)

Farming Just Got Easier

I've just noticed that sheep and cows now show how much wool and milk they have left. When did this happen? -Scrumbucket 18:36, 28 December 2006 (GMT)

I thought that was an additional perk of being able to see monster health. --Bubba_the_Shy 19:35, 28 December 2006 (GMT)
It might be, but I don't have that gift. I got a goldfish instead. -Scrumbucket 20:24, 28 December 2006 (GMT)
I believe this is a newly-coded reward for the Harvey Farm quest. (I see this information, and can't see monster health innately.) --Dragon 03:54, 2 January 2007 (GMT)


What kind of maintenance do these things require? macksting 17:55, 28 December 2006 (GMT)

I feed mine once a day...
What happens when you forget to feed it for one day or two?
I left mine alone for longer than usual and had to feed it correspondingly more flakes on returning, but I noticed no ill effects. --Dithat 09:25, 29 December 2006 (GMT)
If my Goldfish gets "very hungry" it costs 10 AP to feed it (instead of 5) Flt 16:05, 30 December 2006

They appear not to be 'sticky'. Jane Everyone had a goldfish (that was starving when I last logged on) but she's died since and no longer has her goldfish (though I guess it might have starved to death while she was dead). As an aside, it seemed an odd choice for JaneEveryone - I'd have thought more max HP or seeing monster health would be more valuable to her.

Even better would be choosing Option 3 at her home temple, although I suppose this could be undone by the same "caretakers" that allow her to be killed. Droll 18:46, 5 January 2007 (GMT)

I've heard some fish have died.

With that in mind, was it from overfeeding? Theoretically, if you feed a goldfish every time it evidences hunger, you'll kill it. Should I let it stay "nearly full?"
Or was that, in fact, the problem? Underfeeding? macksting 03:18, 12 January 2007 (GMT)

More Empty Lots Near Water City

I wanted to set up shop to sell some wares (wears) that will be useful in the North but there doesn't seem to be any empty lots around my native water city. Anyone know what is up with that? CornMaster 18:46, 27 December 2006 (GMT)

Might want to put in a request for them. The North was put in before shops, I think.
On another note, you could sell things at the Bognor Market; it's a market in the same sense as the Northern, Western, Southern and Eastern markets. macksting 21:18, 27 December 2006 (GMT)

When Will I Learn?

So I got a bit careless and got myself killed by a bunch of lemmings. (Talk about adding insult to mortal injury!) Normally I would take it as a learning experience and use the downtime to meditate upon Doc Mackie's conservative combat guide, but I had just found Earl Ketchup's corpse on a badger just two minutes earlier. Now I can't return it for two days and I feel like a major jerk. Could someone please summon me to the party so I can more speedily reunite the corpse of Ketchup to its proper owner, or at least the KoT? Summoner will be compensated. -Scrumbucket 10:57, 27 December 2006 (GMT)

Alright, you are now back at the party. No need for compensation except for returning my Summon Stone. --Bubba_the_Shy 14:51, 27 December 2006 (GMT)

Hexed Ocean

Whilst mapping the southern ocean, I've just come across an area marked as 'Hexed Ocean' which surrounds an island at 90E 180S. Hexed Ocean cannot be crossed (at least by me), but I can see an island on my Big Map. A wiki search brings up nothing, so I'm wondering whether anyone has come across this before, and whether they know what it is. Map of the Island.. There seems to be a couple of built up locations, plus a volcano in the middle. --Sam 12:57, 26 December 2006 (GMT)

When I did a search, it found Talk:Rough_Guides. Random4518 14:13, 26 December 2006 (GMT)
I think its the Wizards Retreat. Only accessiable via the Wizards Retreat spell. Chronos 14:44, 26 December 2006 (GMT)
See also the Wizard's Retreat page. Liquid 00:43, 27 December 2006 (GMT)
Looks like that's the place, thanks. --Sam 13:23, 27 December 2006 (GMT)

Now that we are one the subject of mapping. For those who use the Glendale Mapper (as a GM-script), does anyone know how to erase notes, or at least youe own notes? --Bubba_the_Shy 10:53, 27 December 2006 (GMT)

Just changed server side so that storing a note consisting of a space will delete your existing note. I will need to update the client for anything more elegant. --Sam 13:23, 27 December 2006 (GMT)
Ah, that worked!! --Bubba_the_Shy 14:51, 27 December 2006 (GMT)
It seems that you cannot store multiple notes at a single location, or at least multiple notes by th same person/token. I was noting party locations publicly, for historical purposes. But the current party and the last were at the same place, and one note rewrites the other. I just discovered this script and love it, but I would also love an option to turn off viewing the notes in the cities textbox. - X-Himy 20:03, 28 December 2006 (GMT)


I wish we could use paper to wrap a present to give to someone in cities. Then we could give Christmas presents. Couldn't it work like the treasure chests where you open them for 1AP? YFM 12:33, 20 Dec 2006 (GMT)

Arguably, we can do that with Bags. We'd just need to be able to make a Present that we could throw something into, perhaps? Seems like most of the programming already exists. What would be more impressive, I think, would be a Hard to Open Present, which would take about five to twenty AP depending on the AP used in wrapping. And the amount of paper and other raw materials used in the process.
Including, I think, multiple Long Strings. macksting 05:41, 21 December 2006 (GMT)
Buy a Gift Box from one of the shops, open it, fill it with goodies, then wrap and send it to another player for 5AP. I recieved a gift yesterday but couldn't open it until this morning. It was a pair of socks. Caroline 15:46, 25 December 2006 (GMT)

The 'King just gave me a present! W00t! Thank you very much, Your Majesty. I could select various nice things. The most tempting one (besides Mana, AP, Max Ap, Max HP, a Hat, stuff) for me was the Pet. I got a Goldfish Egg and a Flake Shaker. I always wanted to have a fish. That's so cool. What did you take? Rockefellow 00:49, 25 December 2006 (GMT)

Goldfish Egg. Good to know. macksting 02:12, 25 December 2006 (GMT)
The Goldfish Egg, Goldfish, Flake Shaker, and the Shaky Flakes produced by the Flake Shaker are in a brand new category that sorts above Weapons. (Not currently displayed in Inventory, I'm guessing it'd be titled "Pet" or something.) Goldfish apparently get hungry and need to be fed Shaky Flakes every so often. Shaking the Flake Shaker for a Shaky Flake and feeding your Goldfish cost 5 AP each, for a total of 10 AP per feeding. Goldfish also have a "Put By Feet" button. Random4518 02:55, 25 December 2006 (GMT)
I took the Bound Spirits (got 4 of them). It turned my Daemonic Sword into an Daemonic Sword (undecided) that dealt double damage!!! I attacked an Air Dragon with it and it became Daemonic Sword (Air Dragon Bane) :-)
Stupid as I am, I then attacked an Earth Dragon with it. The result: You attack the Earth Dragon. Your Daemonic Sword (Air Dragon bane) (70 90%) melts in annoyance. You lose a Daemonic Sword (Air Dragon bane). Now I'm sad :-( Flt 11:40, 25 December 2006 (GMT)
Well, my main character took the "See Monster Health" since it's unattainable by any other means for non-Water characters. Note that I have completed the water quests except the Undead Dragon and I also had the choice for "See Invisibles".
My labrat character on the other hand, took the Pet and received a Goldfish as described above. Note: Elseware said that he's planning to make the Goldfish a prerequisite for the other (more useful) pets. --Bubba_the_Shy 15:34, 25 December 2006 (GMT)

ARG!!I was trying to decide what to pick and was hovering the mouse over the options, but my laptop aparantly has an overly sensitive mouse pad and I accidentally clicked mana :( now what am I going to do with 120 mana? you know, being a non-wizzard? I wanted a pet:(Mr.Monk 09:45, 28 December 2006 (GMT)

I think if you visit the Goodyear Pimp in Oz and give him a magic-good you could learn to make magical Bling (all of which require as input a Bling Bling, some Mana, and something else). Or you could just become a Wizard. That would be a nice chunk of mana to start out with. Droll 15:44, 28 December 2006 (GMT)

yes but your mana regains i should know im a wiz. spells were more useful i got some lvl 3 spells in there. Aprenntice bobtheslayer

Getting Weapons

I've just started playing but, all of my weapons broke (except for fists :p). How can I easily get new weapons? I don't care what the weapon is as long as it does more than 1 damage and does not have a negative to hit Revolution 22:29, 16 December 2006 (GMT)

Try the Earth City dump. Or just kill 1HP monsters with Fists. - Isambard 22:31, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Is Earth City the NW one?, also where in the city is the dump? Revolution 22:39, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
The Earth City dump is located at 87-89E 5N - take the road West out of Earth City (which is the South East one) p.s. have you read the Introduction to Cities and the Tips pages? Spugmeistress 22:59, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Search the ruins. You will find lots of rusty swords ancev 13:20, 17 December 2006 (GMT-3)
Not sure why somebody'd throw Rusty Swords in the dump. Also, check the KOT Keep's charity bin; it has some interesting stuff. It's just west of Fire City, which is the one in the North West. macksting 17:23, 17 December 2006 (GMT)
I believe the good Dr. Macksting meant to say, the KOT Keep is just west of Water City, which is the one in the North East. Just follow the west-bound road from the Water City Shrine for a while, the KOT Road will branch to the North. (Doc Mackie may be recreationally abusing the antidotes again.) -- Sertularian 18:32, 17 December 2006 (GMT)
I blame the whiskey drink, the vodka drink, the cider drink and the lager drink, actually. I've been brewing an awful lot of gin in preparation for the hootenanny, which come to think of it I might save for my eventual Bögnør bash... I digress.
Confidentially, Sert, that was quite possibly the funniest comment anybody has ever made about me on these boards. Remember kids, DARE to control your DOSE. Doc Mackie 04:02, 18 December 2006 (GMT)

Hall of Mirrors

Does anyone know where this is? It is visible but unaccessible from R'1yeh, and the wiki doesn't have any info on it.Gonzometro 21:43, 15 December 2006 (GMT)

No idea, mabye where the mosters get mirrors. --Qazxcv 21:46, 15 December 2006 (GMT)
Hmm. Does looking into a mirror allow you to enter? -- Thog 21:58, 15 December 2006 (GMT)
It's definately a dimensional exit, because the surrounding terrain is visible. (All the tiles appear inaccessible to each other, too.) I tried looking into a mirror while holding another mirror, didn't work. Random4518 00:56, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
And of course I left R'1yeh before I remembered to go look at it. Does turning on a light source help? Any weapons break the mirrors? -- Thog 01:42, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Probably a long shot, but how about being flipped by a mirror monster and not holding a mirror when you visit? -Scrumbucket 02:07, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Of course, this could be another one like the North-East passage exit, where the R'1yeh exit takes you to an inaccessible space. Perhaps the entrance is someplace else (like the bottomless pit?) -- Thog 03:00, 18 December 2006 (GMT)
Are you *positive* it is not accessible? I don't have my Rlyeh map with me (pen and paper) but I recall there were some places on long single chains. Droll 14:51, 18 December 2006 (GMT)
I've tried a few things and none of them worked. Perhaps a wizard could jump the gap?Gonzometro 16:53, 18 December 2006 (GMT)
UPDATE: I've checked my map, and could not find any access to the Hall of Mirrors. My map is not necessarily complete, as I only went as far as the Blasphemious Garden (grin), but it has lots of stuff on it from about 100 steps through the rooms. Droll 18:50, 5 January 2007 (GMT)
I would guess that a Wizard would not be able to jump the gap. I think the H/S/J spells check for legal movement and then bounce you in a different direction if necessary. They can't get you over impassable mountains or onto lava. Droll 18:52, 5 January 2007 (GMT)

Map links from Wiki

Is anyone else having problems with these? They always hang for me. If it's general, I'd suggest replacing the NS template to use the glendale map (example: http://www.glendale.org.uk/cities/map?x=24&y=94&size=small). Naius 20:39, 15 December 2006 (GMT)

The DSS links work fine for me. Can you reach http://survey.darksatanic.net at all? --Dragon 04:34, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Nope. I've given it over 2 minutes, and it's still hanging. I thought it might be script-blaock, but I've disabled that - no joy. I can reach the placeholder at darksatanic.net, no problem. I am obviouly reaching survey.darksatanic.net, because it's sticking the /index.html on for me, and is "waiting" rather than "can't find". I can also ping it quite happily - no losses, 30ms response. It would seem to be some sort of problem with the traffic back. Naius 15:15, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
After much tech talk on chat, we're no further forward, but it seems to be local to me, so I withdraw the suggestion Naius 22:18, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Hangs for me, also. Has done for a long while. Droll 14:53, 18 December 2006 (GMT)
Darkling has been working on this - seems to be OK now. Well done, sir! Naius 18:56, 25 December 2006 (GMT)
It's mostly thanks to a friend of mine, who spotted that my MTU was set to the wrong value. Having tweaked it to something more sensible, it seems to have fixed a significant number of similar problems I have been having, the DSS issue above being one among them. Thanks, Graham. Darksatanic 21:55, 25 December 2006 (GMT)

I wrote a template with links to both maps (Template:Map). Unfortunately, it doesn't work in this version of MediaWiki. - Isambard 01:36, 17 December 2006 (GMT)

Passage to R'1yeh

The Ancient Castle touches down near the entrance to R'1yeh tomorrow, so I was thinking of starting a summon chain. If anyone knows whether summon stones work or whether talismans can be enchanted once inside, it would be nice to know. I'll summon the first 10 interested people once I arrive, which will be around Fridayish. Gonzometro 00:49, 14 December 2006 (GMT)

I've added a "R'1yeh" section to the Military Island Hoppers page.
Talismans cannot be enchanted inside R'1yeh, including the entrance Ocean square (29E 144S). Haven't tried summoning, but I'd be surprised if it worked. (My "R'1yeh" talismans go to 28E 144S.) --Dragon 01:42, 14 December 2006 (GMT)
I'm game :) Syagrius 02:08, 15 December 2006 (GMT)
I'll be working under the assumption that summoning isn't allowed once inside, so I hope everyone has a boat. I'll check it once I've crossed over for future reference.Gonzometro 02:46, 15 December 2006 (GMT)
I've been there once, don't need to go again. However, I'm very interested in scientific pursuit. Once you're inside, please try to summon me, just to see what happens. I can offer you a few herb-based alcoholic drinks in trade for your efforts, no matter how they pan out. This is entirely for the purpose of updating the wiki. macksting 05:57, 15 December 2006 (GMT)
Let the commencement beginulate! 17:53, 15 December 2006 (GMT)
I was all excited because it looked like everyone was going to get a ride on my boat, but I was mistaken. I hope everyone remembered to pack a swimming suit! Summoning and enchantment are not possible on the inside or while travelling from square 29E 144S. Enjoy!
Any chance of a summons? - Havelock
I'm on it. Gonzometro 20:17, 16 December 2006 (GMT)
Gonzo thanks for summon but due to postdata caching I bounced in then out (not sure how) so if yourself or some other kind soul would 'resummon' then I'll try to trade to make it up to you. Havelock
All right, second time's a charm. Gonzometro 16:39, 18 December 2006 (GMT)
Ultimately it must be you I've to thank for starting the chain of events that got me there (I got summoned by someone who either got summoned by you or someone who summoned you there). For anyone low on AP or who doesn't want to explore to get their Eldritch machine, I've added my extensive but not exhaustive findings into the R'1yeh page. --Rackmount 17:56, 17 December 2006 (GMT)

Hydra Killing

So, I was out looking for cd's and came across a 21 headed hydra. It was begging to be killed. Seems they're like the phoenix, regenerating unless you can kill them with one shot. I, a lowly armourer (with the lowly damage modifier), killed it - what's the highest level you can kill? :) Syagrius 15:54, 13 December 2006 (GMT)

I killed a 108-headed one a while back.
The 108 headed Hydra attacks 108 times.
Fun. --Dragon 17:55, 13 December 2006 (GMT)

Has anyone been to the Theives Forest lately?

Yes I said it. Theives Forest!! For some reason, a significant amount of squares in the afore mentioned area is misspelled that way. I shudder to think that the creators wrote 'Thieves Forest' 2500 times manually... --Bubba_the_Shy 18:24, 11 December 2006 (GMT)

It could be a random display function meant as a little dig at the spelling correctors, like the Lepricorn/-chawn etc. Droll 18:37, 11 December 2006 (GMT)
'King Elsewhere is notoriously fickle in the speeling department PlanetNiles 10:01, 12 December 2006 (GMT)

There are 5 shamans now

Rumor has it that the quest for the next level of wizardry was supposed to open when there were 5 shamans. Has anyone found a new quest? There is no change to the Evil Dr. Em signpost on Bleak Island. hendsch 14:17, 11 December 2006 (GMT)

Could it be that it hasn't been coded yet, and TGL were waiting to do so until there were 5 shamans? -- Thog 14:54, 11 December 2006 (GMT)
Sure. Or they just haven't noticed it was time to start. Or they spent all weekend shopping and partying and haven't made the change to kick it off. Or it has started and I just don't know what to do. I'm hoping that someone will answer. hendsch 16:07, 11 December 2006 (GMT)
This is a long shot but perhaps all five of the Shamans have to be in the location to open the quest up? Zingus 16:12, 11 December 2006 (GMT)
I think it's probably that the "5 shamans" thing was just a way of saying "later" and no wthere are 5 elseware might (if he has time) get around to coding it up fully. I doubt there's any magical ritual needed to be performed in game to make it turn on. MrFoo 17:03, 11 December 2006 (GMT)
If there were, I'm sure it would say something. "You begin the ritual, but quickly grow tired. You'll need more Shamans." macksting 17:14, 11 December 2006 (GMT)

So what would you do with all the time in the world?

Well, I just got back from vacation (not holiday you damn English!) from Thailand, and have a wee bit over 6000 AP to burn. Any advice where to begin? I just became a smith before I left, so getting some supplies for armor is in order. Also if anyone wants to do any trades of time for items (I burn a lot of AP to make something for you) let me know --Gaccm 13:44, 8 December 2006 (GMT)

I've been sitting on Holiday Island for months now. I have 22924 AP! (plus 4 measures of serenity) Not sure what I want to do yet and would appreciate any suggestions also. --Frizzi 05:30, 9 December 2006 (GMT)
You could wander around Oz for a while and gather stuff for the totems, and then do the totems. Another idea is massive amounts of random crafting. Kaos Dragon 18:10, 9 December 2006 (GMT)
Hmm. There's a delightful irony to wasting your AP on a process to gain it faster. macksting 07:10, 10 December 2006 (GMT)
When I did the totems, I gathered up every possible item (based on what other people had been asked for previously) and then used retreats and Holiday Island to amass about 3000 AP before running to them all in a row. It burned up most of that 3k AP, so with 6000-23000 AP, there's still more to be done. Although I did have a speedboat, which also helps. -Jon 17:21, 11 December 2006 (GMT)

My suggestion is to enjoy never having to be short of AP again. That's just an idea, mind you. macksting 07:10, 10 December 2006 (GMT)

If you want to burn AP in a really monotonous way, but make money out of it - you could clear the dump and the markets of free or cheap empty mugs and sell them back to the coffee shops. it takes 5AP per mug to pick up from the dump, 1AP to sell back which gives a return of 25gp per 6AP, or you can buy in bulk for 1gp each (1AP per lot) from a lot of the markets. a pretty boring one but an idea all the less :) Or you could join one of the charitable societys like the HeadHunters or Lorax guilds, or you could build and maintain a bridge to somewhere fun? Or you could spend it all on long retreats and give the gift of AP to all your friends this christmas time! Spugmeistress 18:01, 10 December 2006 (GMT)
I second the Bridge vote. Go become and engineer and build a bridge. :) macksting 18:05, 10 December 2006 (GMT)
Build a bridge to Oz. Go on...... --Andrewsi 19:32, 11 December 2006 (GMT)
Regarding giving away AP: you can't trade Serenity/Enlightenment; it's sticky. And if you want to make money there are much more efficient ways to do it...I'd say go questing. Finish a bunch of quests all at once--I've never had as much AP as you guys, but I used one Spice binge to complete most of the Northern quests, another for the Underground, and another for the Totems... if you still have some of these quests left that's not a bad thing to do. --Dragon 18:22, 10 December 2006 (GMT)
It happens one of those underground quests makes it so that you can create bridges. Destiny is speaking to you. macksting 17:12, 11 December 2006 (GMT)

If you have a Dragon Stone, consider experimenting with what generation of Phoenix you could take down, particularly if you've got alot of HP as well.-Jon 17:21, 11 December 2006 (GMT)

Head Hunter Hunters?

As many of you wannabe shamans have probably noticed, the Head Hunter population has exploded lately mostly due to the Morpheus hunting that's been taking place. Everyone wants that famed copy of 'You Spin Me Around.' Should we start some ldensort of Head Hunter Hunter's Guild or perhaps a one-for-one policy? ie: every time you kill a Morpheus, make sure you kill a Head Hunter too. I'm thinking something along the lines of the League of the Lifted Lorax, to even out the populations down there. Zingus 15:13, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

It's tough to do the Oz interior when you have to get back to the free party after every session, so I'll start whittling on them next week. Any particular region I should focus on? hendsch 18:07, 6 December 2006 (GMT)
Wow, I just checked out the Morpheus Kill list and there's way fewer players going after them than I thought. I personally get into the Oz interior through the "dragon pass" between crimson and los laputas. Maybe if people killed one or 2 headhunters on the way in through there it would increase the chances of Morpheus respawns closer to the entrance, which would ultimately save a ton of AP. Zingus 19:11, 6 December 2006 (GMT)
Am I missing something? Last I checked, about the only thing I could damage Head Hunters with enough to kill them with before they trapped me was a Glass Sword. Is there something else they're vulnerable to? -- Thog 05:17, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
Head of the Gorgon maybe?
Aligned bows, if you're reasonably lucky--they effectively have 2420 HP. I'd expect a midas wand to work, but haven't tried it. One thing that might be good to find out is whether the sequence of attacks is reset if a new player attacks them... --Dragon 05:28, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
Update: midas wand does not work. I've filed a bug. --Dragon 18:31, 8 December 2006 (GMT)
Not bad for wizards. Fireball with killing blow or 2 fireballs with fleeting strength, depending on the availability of knives vs sharp swords. You could probably get away with a tribble gun with bashing stuff (similar to the aligned bow) but it would cost more AP for only a moderate savings in mana and the bottle of whiskey is a pain to acquire. hendsch 15:36, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
Vorpal blades also work. Ravensdance 20:12, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
I haven't found the number of headhunters there to be overly burdensome yet--there's still a lot of empty jungle. Still, it might be good to start pruning them early. I generally don't take that way in, though (yeah, I know, it has my name and all that... :) ) so I might not be clearing that area as much. And yeah, there are probably about three people actively hunting Morpheus right now.... --Dragon 05:28, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
Looks like I might need to start hunting some Morpheus soon, just so's I can get more CDs. When I do so, I'll take your advice about how to kill one or two headhunters. macksting 16:33, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
If you're looking for any CDs other than "You Spin Me Around' I'd suggest going after something else. I have yet to get any CDs from a Morpheus (killed a total of 11 so far). The Asbos have been good to me lately in terms of dropping some decent CDs. Just be sure to kill those quickly, as they'll steal a bunch of your money and only give some of it back. Zingus 18:47, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
Hey, I see it's Shaman Zingus now, so I guess you finally found the right morpheus! That's 4 shamans. Maybe we'll get the level 3 quest now? hendsch 17:04, 8 December 2006 (GMT)
Yep killed my 12th Morpheus last nite and luckily enough, he had the CD on him! The four are Zingus/Hendsch/JohnnyRogers/ATC correct? Unrelated but also of interest in terms of Oz monsters, I killed a 10 Asbos last night and it dropped 2 CDs, a glass sword, and 2 vorpal blades! Zingus 17:19, 8 December 2006 (GMT)
Elseware said it would take 5 shamans, but based on my current trades, the fifth one should be along soon... :) As for Asbos, they drop a lot of stuff (I believe, but don't know for sure, that each Asbo gets its treasure rolled individually--the more asbos, the more stuff). Usually it's not that great, but it has the potential to be good. That drop, however, is exceptional--I've killed quite a few asbos and haven't seen one that good. --Dragon 18:31, 8 December 2006 (GMT)
I was hoping he'd lost count. I just checked and it hadn't opened yet. hendsch 19:16, 8 December 2006 (GMT)
Elseware better count us again.... Shaman Liquid


Are there any onions left in the game? Can anyone still grow them? I know this is silly and should go on the requests for info page, but everyone seems to have forgotten about it. The wiki says things can be grown on roads. However, I haven't been able to do so in a long time. vloodo 14:40, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

Onions still exist in the game, but I haven't been able to grow any new root veg for ages. - Isambard 23:52, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

Happy Graduation, Dr. Harvey!

Must I do everything myself? :) Doc Mackie 03:46, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

Yeah Congrats. what are you a doctor of now anyways? Tulk
Doctor of Rock, ofcourse! --Bubba_the_Shy 12:33, 9 December 2006 (GMT)
No, he's a Doctor of Gonzo Programming. Darksatanic 21:51, 9 December 2006 (GMT)

Booj and Copperisblue are being retired

And so, as I find time, I will be dumping all that they have into the dump. They have been around the old world and have a variety of things. Since they don't want anything, selling items will mean nothing. First come, first serve. (unless someone really wants the characters, then... I spose I could give the entire characters away.)Density 21:11, 30 November 2006 (GMT)

As far as I know, the dump contents are reset every now and then, so that some of your items might be destroyed. You could also sell them very cheap in less popular markets like bögnör's or the Western and Northern--Solune 22:00, 30 November 2006 (GMT)
well, don't worry, the high priced things like glass swords and gorgons heads went as quickly as I put them down. I don't care if so many brave stars are destroyed. I just didn't feel it would be in the spirit of the game for me to have Booj give density the head of the gorgon that density needs right now. So, I let everyone have a shot at Booj's inventory. First come first serve.
I could sell things, but... since I dropped all of the gold Booj had as well... what would he want with the money?
If I have time today, I will do the same for Copperisblue. He has a variety of permits (mining and hill fort). A wormhole kit. Ball inventations, dragon stone, Hoe ov Destruction, 112 pieces of ancient wood, a bunch of spells and music....Density 16:56, 1 December 2006 (GMT)

copper is blue is dropping stuff nowDensity 18:34, 1 December 2006 (GMT)

When i retired a character, I went around to all the trading posts and dumped anythign useful on anybody who was around. (Parties might be a great place to find a lot of accepting people). I think it's mroe fun that way.

Written in the Sand

Written in the sand is the message: [DR}LICO%

This is at 80E 8S in the Great Desert. I dont know anyway of writing in the sand (I even tried a pointy stick) so I wonder if its anything to do with the Regent/Emissary stuff - The Beggar 14:02, 29 November 2006 (GMT)

At the Zoo

I got a Marwell talisman last night and now im at the Zoo. Is this new? Is there anything to do here? --The Beggar 08:04, 29 November 2006 (GMT)

Yes. You can look at the animals. You can kill the animals to, if, for example, you want to kill a sand worm without trekking through the great desert to find one. It opened around the same time as Oz. hendsch 15:23, 29 November 2006 (GMT)

Cities Favicon

It seems a shame that Cities does not have a favicon (the little icon that shows up in the address bar and bookmark). I think we should have a competition, and the winner (pending the 'King's approval) gets to go up there. -- X-Himy 15:34, 28 November 2006 (GMT)

I think it should look like the del.icio.us favicon, with the squares recolored, shrunk down and connected with 4 lines--Soelo 20:13, 4 December 2006 (GMT)

Not a bad idea, actually. I'd been rather at a loss. macksting 02:21, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
I think the 4 swords diagram of thee elements would be good. What size should it be? Naius 14:28, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
I think it's in the region of 16x16 so you don't get much room... MrFoo 14:40, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
On looking at a couple of others I think 24x24. Here's an attempt - http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/151/csquareyb2.gif Naius 16:41, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
I thought it could only be 16x16. I made this one ( http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9656/citiesfaviconqr1.gif ) but I bow to the one aboves superiority, its ace! - Mad Frank 17:49, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
The first is beautiful but the second is more Cities somehow PlanetNiles 17:49, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
I vote on this one vloodo 21:43, 5 December 2006 (GMT)
I concur, the mini-map is very...Cities.
That first one is great, but it's probably too big... Here's my attempt at an icon. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/kaosdragon/citiesicon.jpg Kaos Dragon 18:47, 5 December 2006 (GMT)

I think a compromise between the really pretty one and the maps would be good. However, I'm not a big fan of the colored roads. The colored crossed swords works as a result of precedence. macksting 07:32, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

Anything over 16x16 will gte automatically resized down to 16x16 by most browsers, so making them other sizes is likely to cause issues I think. There's no formal spec for them but 16x16 seems the default. To see, just load them by hand, e.g. [3] right click on it and select properties, and you'll see it's 16x16. MrFoo 10:05, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

I like the crossed swords, but if you shrink it down to 16x16 (as I have), it is rather hard to discern. Maybe a picture of the 'King's crown? -- X-Himy 17:57, 6 December 2006 (GMT)

I see what you mean. I did a rework and got to: http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3973/csquare3gd6.gif I think most of the problem is with the diagonals. Next Effort: http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2191/csquare4rw0.gif Naius 17:20, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
I like Naius' first picture. I say we go with it--Solune 19:39, 7 December 2006 (GMT)
Hmm. I like the second one second better myself. -Scrumbucket 05:28, 9 December 2006 (GMT)


I just got a sling. What the heck is it? I can't find it in the Items or Weapons sections, nor even in New Items. Doc Mackie 01:47, 28 November 2006 (GMT)

It's pretty much what it sounds like. Try ranged weapons. -Scrumbucket 03:10, 28 November 2006 (GMT)
What did you get it off of? I have been looking for one of these for a while, simply to get rid of some stones. I figured it would be craftable. -- X-Himy 15:31, 28 November 2006 (GMT)
If you really need a sling I'll give one for free at the next party. But trust me, the stone market is on the rise, it's not a good time to use yours.--Solune 16:23, 28 November 2006 (GMT)
The stone market is on the rise? Really? Is there a use for stones beyond the normal paper-rock-scissors? Are they going to be used for the rumored golem creation? -- X-Himy 19:04, 28 November 2006 (GMT)
Not sure about golems, but I know myself and some other shop owners have been purchasing them. I can't speak for others, but I hoard them until I have a buttload of AP and find myself in Brighthelm, at which time I sell them for 50 GP a pop. Stones that is, not slings.-Jon 19:11, 28 November 2006 (GMT)
Slings drop from Oz monsters with some regularity--I have a bunch I'll trade cheap/free if anyone wants them. Stones are not used in Golem creation. And if people are willing to buy stones in their shops, all the better--I don't sell them in Brighthelm since my AP are worth more than 50gp each.  ;) I don't see a reason to hoard them, as long as you keep a few around for scissor beasts. --Dragon 00:43, 29 November 2006 (GMT)

Things in the North

There's something off the top of the map at 40E 200N. I don't suppose there's a way to get there? PotatoEngineer 23:14, 25 November 2006 (GMT)

Well, there is, but not by walking. We keep some of the "off-map" things up there -- Limbo, the Space Elevator, Ruthven's Castle, that sort of thing. What you're seeing is just something that an admin forgot to mark "seekrit". Darksatanic 23:31, 25 November 2006 (GMT)

See Invisibles

Many of us are still plagued by this intrinsic ability. Although it comes in handy, it is more often annoying. Like when I lost 1.4 million XP by running into a hungry ghost *d'oh*. I think it would solve everybody's problem if invisible monsters were friendly by default, with and exception for the evil bling-wraiths. I'm also aware that this topic should go on the 'suggestions' page, but I figured this one gets more traffic. Gonzometro 19:26, 22 November 2006 (GMT)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't wearing shades make invisibles invisible, even if you have the intrinsic? I remember that was one solution provided when folks realized how much of a pain the intrinsic was. -- Thog 19:35, 22 November 2006 (GMT)
Yeah, but then you can't see your corner squares, which makes having the intrinsic more of a detriment because you either have to keep putting on and taking off your sunglasses or have diminished sight. Maybe I'm griping unnecessarily. Gonzometro 20:00, 22 November 2006 (GMT)
Sounds like a serious problem! --Bubba_the_Shy 22:57, 22 November 2006 (GMT)

Space Dragons Jamming out.

You attack the Earth Dragon. You cause 16 points of damage, and receive 160 experience. You slay the Earth Dragon. You gain a Dragon Blood. You gain a Toad Spell. You gain 215 Gold Pieces. You gain a Field Glasses.

Pretty typical, eh? Well, strange thing is this happened in space. Near me I see Earth Dragons, Water Dragons, Fire Dragons and Small Water Dragons. Did a dragon colony ship hit an asteriod or something? --Ade 23:14, 20 November 2006 (GMT)

Just a can of wyrms, or they have jet backs. --Qazxcv 23:42, 20 November 2006 (GMT)
Yeah, I was up collecting Power Crystals a few days ago and ran out of cans of worms so blew a can of wyrms, anyone want to buy some crystal? --BigPrick 22 November 2006
Okay. This confounds me. Why do people break open worm cans in space? Okay, I get it, things won't spawn where worms are hanging out. But you only get drops from the smallest asteriods. Wouldn't it make more sense to have as many as possible? I suppose you could argue that the drops concentrate if a reall big asteriod is forced only to spawn a single asteriod, but I don't think this is the case at all. Clarification? --Ade 19:27, 25 November 2006 (GMT)
Each Very Large Asteroid contains 1 Power Crystal. Now when each asteroid splits, the power crystal only goes into one of the smaller parts.. so if you let things happen naturally, you need to destroy a whole bunch of asteroids to get a single power crystal. If, however you open a can of worms, you only have to destroy one of each size, and will get the power crystal. MrFoo 20:04, 25 November 2006 (GMT)
You don't get a lot of metals though.
Most people who go to space don't go for the minerals, hence the worms. You get more minerals from mining than from asteroids. MrFoo 20:37, 25 November 2006 (GMT)

hrm... seeing this topic made me think of something. There really should be ghosts in space.Density 14:07, 28 November 2006 (GMT)

There are. Well, Space Ghosts... -- Thog 14:11, 28 November 2006 (GMT)

A Long Expected Party

Has begun at 92E 5N. Hbookbinder 06:23, 20 November 2006 (GMT)

It's... hobbit themed? macksting 17:50, 20 November 2006 (GMT)
Apparently yes PlanetNiles 19:23, 20 November 2006 (GMT)

Emmissary and Coded Message

Abilities: 71E 71N. 10:20pm.
Something has scorched the word 'moistened' in the grass.

Is this one of those signposts I hear mentioned occasionally? Or is it something more mundane that I missed? Hbookbinder 22:23, 19 November 2006 (GMT)

It's a left over from one of the Emissary events. MrFoo 22:30, 19 November 2006 (GMT)
Yes. See Events/Emissary, and if you have a Piece of Torn Parchment you should see some familiar terrain. (The Emissary stuff kind of died out--there haven't been any new developments in months. Many of the clues pointed to the NW tunnels, but if there's more to it it hasn't been figured out and people have probably lost interest.) Oh, and a sign post looks like road/city terrain, and has its name on the terrain and a short description--if you look at the statues of ChaS (near Fire City) or Alexander the Tiny (near Earth City), or the signs saying Koala Forest or marking the passes into the interior in Oz, that's what a sign post looks like. --Dragon 22:37, 19 November 2006 (GMT)
I've been sitting on this for a while, having forgotten about it when I went away for the summer. But if you were paying attention to the Emmissary/Coded Message discussion, you know that only three of four message scraps were recovered, and that we weren't able to finish the clue. I have that last message scrap, and to the best of my knowledge I'm the only person with the full message. I'll sell it to the highest bidder on my Talk page. Billz8 00:38, 20 November 2006 (GMT)
Information wants to be free! hendsch 13:41, 20 November 2006 (GMT)

Meteu has released the message to me, since I donated a Dawn Horn for his martial arts training. The memo, titled "johndoe", reads as follows:

Whence the flyd, the The serface will yeeld Thee who throe sacrifys Wyl at th'infyrnal

Let those who are knowledgeable in this matter begin the process of deciphering this enigma. -Stelio 21:48, 23 November 2006 (GMT)

Whence the flyd, the plyges, the o'erthrown, the trouth of the belowe wyl be discoved.
The serface will yeeld to beneef. The myf, the stench, the beest, the roq wyl be uncovd.
Thee who throe sacrifys prevail, who throe the rings of nyn travail.
Wyl at th'infyrnal thron be greet'd, for there th'yvil one be seat'd.

I suppose this means we've got to write more code now... Darksatanic 22:44, 23 November 2006 (GMT)
Is it time to brush up on the Inferno? (Rings of nine?)
Midway upon the journey of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost.

Summoning Request

If someone could summon me back to the Disco Inferno party, I want to see if the effects of the party work in conjunction with a retreat. I have already joined the party, so that won't be a problem. You might think that this is just an excuse to shorten my retreat time, but you would be wrong. This is for science! Summoning stones will be returned (or replaced), and kudos freely given. -- X-Himy 21:36, 18 November 2006 (GMT)

Science my patoot, it works normally. For a party, anyway. But yes, it's well worth the summon, assuming you've already joined. (Which, as I recall seeing you there, you almost certainly have.)
It happens you've stumbled upon the best source of Measures of Serenity, probably. macksting 00:39, 19 November 2006 (GMT)
Summoning complete. I too am interested in this line of research, having gone so far as designing a similar experiment. Alas, external factors have prevented the successful resolution of all my attempts to date. I am honored to be able to assist you in your work and look forward to reading your published results. -Scrumbucket 00:56, 19 November 2006 (GMT)
Scrumbucket's valuable contribution to science has been noted, and will receive coauthorship on my forthcoming papers. That and kudos. -- X-Himy 01:27, 19 November 2006 (GMT)

Wizard hat auction

I'm tired of my Wizard Hat, but I find it too precious to give it away for free. So I'm starting an auction. Price starting at 5000 GP, non gold items very welcome, especially totem stuff and singles, my inventory is here.

Around 20:00 tomorrow (14/11/06) I will summon the winner to a trading post of my choice --Solune 12:55, 13 November 2006 (GMT)

5000gp? done! Z0ltar 16:30, 13 November 2006 (GMT)
The current bid is only 5000gp? I offer 10000 then! ancev 17:07, 13 November 2006 (GMT-2)
I'll up the stakes to: a Copy of 'Diamonds Are Forever', a Copy of 'I Will Survive', a Full Defence Spell, a Shield Spell, and a Midas Wand (since I've now killed the Undead Dragon,but you haven't). :-) All things that I have, but have no need for at the moment. Stelio 15:47, 14 November 2006 (GMT)
$50000 bucks. Just to dont let stelio have it. ancev 02:33, 15 November 2006 (GMT-2)

The Auction closed in a somewhat successless manner, due to the trading post being not that remote. The Auctionner conforted the disappointed bidders with lots of alcohol, after which he managed to extort his payment despite the absence of his hat.--Solune 07:14, 15 November 2006 (GMT)

Okay, I can't resist:<nelson> Haha </nelson>! There.

A Warning to Those What Attended the International Music Festival

Perry Bible Fellowship's Toad Race
A warning from Doc Mackie 20:03, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

I don´t get it...???

One of the highlights of the IMF was the intrigue caused by JohnnyRogers' toad form. Witness the popularity of the "I licked JohnnyRogers..." T-shirts as evidence. The strip above highlights the dangers of toad licking to the unwary. :-) -Stelio 10:23, 16 November 2006 (GMT)
yeah, it's just not as funny when it has to be 'splained. Oh well. -palindrome 17:57, 16 November 2006 (GMT)
Worst part is, in an interview by the writer of the comic, he's under the impression that jokes where "you had to be there" just aren't what he's looking for. So, arguably, I've failed. Doc Mackie 18:19, 16 November 2006 (GMT)

A bit-put-out-bow

So clearly this is supposed to become a Crossbow, made to fire Quarrels. Has anybody made this anything other than A bit-put-out Bow? Doc Mackie 03:30, 10 November 2006 (GMT)

Perhaps it's like the Crow Bow, and you need to combine several? -- Thog 03:38, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
Anybody got multiple so far? macksting 05:27, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
I can't do anything special with three of them. --Dragon 06:20, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
Then I suspect that there's a different way. Perhaps a high level smith, as suggested by a few smith friends. macksting 17:48, 10 November 2006 (GMT)

It seems that they sometimes get angrier:

Your weapon gets more ticked off... 
You lose an A bit put-out Bow. 
You gain an Annoyed Bow.

I was attacking a duck-billed critter (didn't write down what), and after one of the attacks, it transformed. MrFoo 22:48, 11 November 2006 (GMT)

Is it maybe the same deal as the daemonic weapons? ie you have to kill creatures with higher hp for each successive transformation Z0ltar 06:00, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
That's an excellent idea. I certainly haven't tried yet. macksting 06:12, 12 November 2006 (GMT)
It doesn't seem to be quite that simple. It might be that there's just a %age chance of it transforming on any given attack. MrFoo 09:57, 12 November 2006 (GMT)

Egg and Wis. Retreat Spell

I am in need for an Egg, or Ruby Slippers (and you get some eggs), which ever. Last time I was up there, I was stupid and gave them away.

Also, my Wis. Retreat spell is for sale, heighest bidder, also for sale is an X, heighest bidder. Post on my talk page to bid. --Qazxcv 00:13, 10 November 2006 (GMT)

There seems to be more and more trading discussion here these days. There is a dedicated Trading Post page for this sort of thing.... --Dragon 06:23, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
Is there a known solution for the fact that it's not checked very often? The obvious answer is "check it," and I do, but I also know it has gotten me very few hits. Doc Mackie 06:57, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
"Link to it often from higher-traffic pages like this one?"  :) I also check the Recent Changes page, so I see when there's new content on the trading post (among other pages of interest). --Dragon 07:35, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
So in other words, we can announce a major change to our entry, such as running a contest or an auction, here. However, we should all Watchlist the Trading Post and link it whenever we make the announcements? macksting 08:43, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
Well, my opinion is that trading stuff should generally be confined to the Trading Post page, without any post here. My main complaint is that there is a page for trading things already, so putting trades on the general Conversation page makes the wiki generally more cluttered and unruly. I'm interested in hearing what other people think, though. And you can watchlist the Trading Post, or not, as you choose--I haven't, but I still check its changes. --Dragon 17:36, 10 November 2006 (GMT)
Yes, same effect, just less micromanaged. :) macksting 17:47, 10 November 2006 (GMT)

On the coral reef lurks...a whale?

Nope. At least two.

I'm sat on 23E 194S there. I can't get onto the whale nor the reef (the latter for more obvious game reasons), so I can't see if the whale is combatable. I'm thinking the name box looks a little like a tail. Two squares north of the Shale Whale is a White Whale- same deal. (Oh, and I know the thumbnail isn't showing up- looks like the resizing program ("convert" from ImageMagick?) is being denied the chance to make one, due to a security setting. I'm leaving it like this to maybe remind someone who can to fix it :) Click on it to see what I'm referring to.--Hotchpotch 10:44, 8 November 2006 (GMT)

The name box is the "head" of the whale and is normally attackable. However, since it's next to the Coral you might not be able to get there, so perhaps we should bug the GLs to respawn it somewhere else. Is the White Whale in the same situation ("facing" the coral)? --Dragon 17:25, 8 November 2006 (GMT)
Name box being the smaller one, situated on a "path" or "connector" square? Having moved North, I find the white whale is facing in the same direction, so this time away from the reef (unless there is reef beneath them, obscured by the larger "body" square). I see no direction arrows or attack options. If these are unique monsters, then yes, consider then beached and in need of help. White Whale I've superimposed my Survey Vessel's map to give an idea of the lay of the land. Erm, sea. --Hotchpotch 20:54, 8 November 2006 (GMT)
If you are next to the "head" you can attack it. But since both of these are facing the coral, you should probably bring this to the attention of the GLs. I believe that whales follow the "unique" spawn patterns (fixed number in existence, and if you kill one, it respawns somewhere else--like Sir Tim and Omar) rather than normal spawn patterns (random chance of spawning when someone walks by), so this has the potential to permanently stop whaling until they get un-beached.... --Dragon 01:56, 9 November 2006 (GMT)
If it has the same life span as other creatures it will live for 2-24 days and then die and respawn somewhere else. ...assuming it follows those rules... otherwise it is beached permanently. TerrorRemedy 14:17, 9 November 2006 (GMT)


Clinic invite for Ball invite? Palantir me - Mad Frank 10:23, 7 November 2006 (GMT)

I'm game! Baz Auckland 13:40, 8 November 2006 (KST)
Its a deal. Ive come to the party and given you the clinic invite. Mad Frank 14:43, 8 November 2006 (GMT)

Lost at the Party?

I was trying to trade a CD ("You spin me round") and the recipient never received it. I'm afraid I might have directed it to the wrong person at the party. Could folks check (particularly those at the top of the list of names). Thanks. Hendsch 21:52, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

Ditto for me and a clinic invite... Seriously. -MasterPete
And an opal Team Small Fire Demon ring for me please -Jon 23:57, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

How Come?

How did I get moved to Limbo from holiday island? I was playing by the rules, which said people on holiday island wont be moved to limbo yet there I find myself and as a concequence I lose my wizards hat. So how come just doesnt seem fair to me? - Zombie 19:15, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

There are two possible answers. 1) Holiday Island was hit by a lava bomb and the special properties holiday island are on hiatus until the lava cools and is cleaned up. 2) Droll reported that the special properties of holiday island (at least the going over max AP) don't work in a fort on the hills square there. Hendsch 20:32, 6 November 2006 (GMT)
The lava's already been cleared. Kaos Dragon 23:48, 6 November 2006 (GMT)
When was the lava detonated, I logged in to see if that had affected my fort and next logged in last night. It didnt seem like a week between those times. - Zombie 08:30, 7 November 2006 (GMT)
Did you spend any AP when you were logged in? No AP spend = no action... --Dragon 18:10, 7 November 2006 (GMT)
I know it doesn't count on the "hours since last active" list but does it count for keeping out of limbo? Apprentice chronos (who had a wizard's hat) had 500+ inactive hours according to the score list but didn't end up in limbo. I searched the retirement village and holiday island too (although later he showed up in zombie's fort). Hendsch 18:21, 7 November 2006 (GMT)
No AP spent. I spoke to Elsewhere about it as I saw him on my travels. He said of it :
'King Elseware (Ignaday, 7th of Brumaire, about one in the afternoon):
Because it "overrides" the location. The fort isn't "on" holiday island - neither is a party there. Temporary locations have to explicitly import flags from the current location. They don't just gain all the "powers" of the parent location.
So that explains it - Zombie 08:54, 8 November 2006 (GMT)

stuck in the tree of life cupboard under the ground

can anyone summon me anywhere south of the great desert? i'm dave, and i'm all alone in the demon infested dark without a full deck.


I don't think you can be summoned out of the caverns. I'm not sure. Have you tried breaking a talisman? JohnnyRogers 20:48, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

Can't Make Tomato Juice!

Anybody else have this problem? Got a tomato and two empty bottles. You'd think that'd be enough. Doc Mackie 04:46, 6 November 2006 (GMT)
Addendum: Build.xml says 4 tomatos. The wiki says nothing of the sort. Can somebody with four tomatoes test this theory? Doc Mackie 04:48, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

Yep, you need four tomatoes. I didn't actually make the juice, I used my tomatoes for pizza, but I had the option of making it. vloodo 18:43, 6 November 2006 (GMT)
Thanks! Good to know. We need to update the wiki. macksting 09:22, 7 November 2006 (GMT)
Done. Doc Mackie 06:00, 8 November 2006 (GMT)

Ye Olde Lost Mine

Some time during my mad rush to prepare for a RL weekend outing, I lost track of a mine I started somewhere a little south of the Talisman Maker. I've got the AP and materials to create another, so if you find my old mine, feel free to use it. Extra kudos if you add it to the public mines page. -Scrumbucket 00:56, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

Done. Droll 18:28, 14 November 2006 (GMT)
Kudos to you, Sir. Would you believe that I lost track of my new mine as well? Ironically, it was rediscovered using your coordinates for the old one. They are now both open to the public. -Scrumbucket 01:04, 17 November 2006 (GMT)
Given its location, it was probably rediscovered copperically or stonically... Droll 14:27, 17 November 2006 (GMT)

Free slime

2E 99N, anyone who wants to take on some slime, go to it. Hbookbinder 07:06, 5 November 2006 (GMT)

No more free slime. --Kaos Dragon 08:02, 5 November 2006 (GMT)

So who was Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal??

Back at the Monsters's Ball, he vanished before I could open my lips. So after some serious investigation, certain party members decided it was Duke Bercant MD or perhaps Duke Spacer One MD? Well we don't know, probably the latter!! So please, take off the mask and show us your true self!! --Bubba_the_Shy 15:24, 3 November 2006 (GMT)

It was definitely not Duke Bercant MD, my investigations reveal. :-D My money is still on Spacer One. (Come on, daddy needs a new pair of shoes...) -Stelio 16:34, 3 November 2006 (GMT)
Hey, same here. Probably because you told me so >.< --Bubba_the_Shy 17:20, 3 November 2006 (GMT)
UPDATE, yea it was Spacer One. He confessed!! --Bubba_the_Shy 14:09, 6 November 2006 (GMT)
And he would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for us pesky kids. :-D Stelio 16:54, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

Super AP Surpus Suggestion Time!

As a result of the Lava overflowing Holiday Island, my hiatus invoving cities has seemed to stop accumulating AP. Suddenly, stalled at the massive number of 17409 AP (I've been chilling on Holiday Island for like, two months or more, maybe part of the reason the lava came) I seem to be at an impasse regarding how to use it all. Furthermore, NaNoWriMo is in full swing and I really don't want to spend the time at the moment to run through this and risk pulling any time away from my writing.

I'm gonna wait until December to start burning AP, until then, suggest to me what I should blow my AP on. No suggestion is too absurd or wasteful! --Hamelin 18:28, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

Practical- Long retreats at a monastery. Public Service-Clear cooled lava in the frozen north. Silly- write your name on every road square in the 'kingdom. I suspect the lava will begin to cool and need to be cleared, so you may want to save your AP for that. Hendsch 18:47, 2 November 2006 (GMT)
Gather about 2500 wood. Build a bridge to Oz from the Islands. Build bridges from the Oz mainland to Bleak/The Totem Islands -- Thog 19:01, 2 November 2006 (GMT)
The cost of maintaining a bridge to Oz would be too high (more AP than one person gets per day). - Isambard 15:40, 3 November 2006 (GMT)
Hey, Hamelin didn't ask for practical suggestions :-) -- Thog 23:41, 3 November 2006 (GMT)
Forgot one: Clear the entire central jungle in Oz -- Thog 19:02, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

Holiday Island

Its over run with Lava! Is it dangerous? Do we need to run away? Where is the volcano? Somebody call Tommy Lee Jones!

Vault Valet?

I forgot where my vault is. Anyone know how i can find it again?- looser

Edit: Wandered around and found it. Write down your lot number!

Screen Printing Kit

I just got one of these, talks about printing a slogan on a t-shirt for 50ap.

I don't want to use it yet, but has anyone else got one of these?

-Stien 09:23, 30 October 2006 (GMT)

Where did you get it? I'd try it. - looser
Comes free with every Party now, so that the creator of the party can make T-shirts. So yes, I'm pretty sure there's at least one floating around (seems to me the recent party was grandfathered one) and there will be more in the future. macksting 15:29, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
I got it off killing a Sea Lion -Stien
Hmm... "I attended the international music festival and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"? I like it ;) Syagrius 16:59, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
Actually, the standard is, to my understanding, "I licked JohnnyRogers at the International Music Festival" Doc Mackie 17:04, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
And don't you forget it! -- Heyus2 06:09, 31 October 2006 (GMT)
So using it disposes of the kit? If so how many shirts does it make? Does it just give out a shirt to everyone in your square? I guess we need JohnnyRogers to tell us a little something about it... -Stien 17:20, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
Using the Screen Printing Kit disposes of the kit, but gives you a Screen with that message. You can then use that screen to print t-shirts for 5 AP each. Blank t-shirts ready for printing can be obtained at Iron Weasel Fashions for 5000 gold each. Ravensdance 21:04, 31 October 2006 (GMT)

On a related note, due to high demand I have used the Screen Printing Kit from the International Music Festival to create the much-requested "I licked JohnnyRogers at the International Music Festival" t-shirts, and they are now available. However, I don't have many blank t-shirts, so anyone wanting one may wish to consider offering a blank shirt or two in exchange.... Ravensdance 21:04, 31 October 2006 (GMT)

Acme Factory and Road Runner

Looks interesting, I wonder if they make lances. --Qazxcv 01:04, 30 October 2006 (GMT)

Well I ordered 2 boxes of parts, and they just arrived.. And I can't do anything with them. MrFoo 10:25, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
Where is the factory located?
It's on the north side of the road between Fire City and Water City. Once you've visited it, you need to go to a post-office to order goods from it. MrFoo 10:46, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
Where is a post office in fire city? --Qazxcv 13:23, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
They aren't in the Cities, but also along the roads between the cities.
It looks like this is a Smith only activity however. MrFoo 16:05, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
Cool! I'll have to give it a go then. Syagrius 16:06, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
So Wile E. Coyote is a smith? I suppose that makes sense, all things considered. macksting 16:12, 30 October 2006 (GMT)
Smells like the level 2 Smith quest to me. -Stien


How i put myself in Clobber-Pimp fashion? As i understand, I need be mostly pimp, with some touchs of clobber... but thats seens impossible, since the item that give less clobber points are the Pair of Firefly Trainers (5 points), and items that give most pimp points are Bling Bling, Pair of Shades or Fur Coat (5 points too). And since "Clobber beats Pimp", i always end in "Pimp-Clobber" fashion, instead of "Clobber-Pimp" fashion. Any solution? -- Ancev 01:09, 29 October 2006 (GMT-3)

I'm wearing a bling, a pair of shades and a pair of firefly trainers. Remember, Clobber beats Pimp IF they are tied in score. -Jon 04:25, 29 October 2006 (GMT)
You can also wear up to 10 bling at a time, and the fashion points add up. --Dragon 05:01, 29 October 2006 (GMT)
Yeah, so basically, Shades and a Fur Coat, or Shades and a Bling, or six blings, or anything like that, will do the trick. macksting 06:57, 29 October 2006 (GMT)
Sweet! Now i am cool again. Ancev 11:47, 29 October 2006 (GMT-3)

Heavenly Dragon

I thought I'd bring to everyone's attention that there is an earth aligned Heavenly Dragon hanging around Windy City these days (9E, 8N). It only has 7HP left, for "Angel/Penguin/Roc/Crocdile/Pheonix/Air Dragon/Water Dragon" aligned players. Could we try killing it? I am very curious to see what kind of loot it would give up, or any kind of earth shattering effect it is going to bring to the game. (after all, it is a "Heavenly" dragon) --Dragoon 19:02, 26 October 2006 (BST)

I killed the last one, before they were made vorpal immune. It dropped a bunch of cool stuff, but nothing extraordinary. An X, 2-3 good spells, 14 dragon blood doses, probably some other stuff.Hbookbinder 19:53, 26 October 2006 (BST)

Bridge Thoughts

Anyone know if a person other than the creator can maintain a bridge (given the wood and bridge plans, of course)? Durkon's been busy building bridges across the islands (Holiday, Brighthelm, Bentnob, Bombadiers, and Cigar are currently all part of the network) but the thought of having to start maintaining all those spans with one character sounds a little hairy. -- Thog 15:41, 26 October 2006 (BST)

I've heard that any qualified bridge engineer (i.e. anyone with Plans) can repair a bridge. I have not verified this. --Dragon 17:10, 26 October 2006 (BST)
I have verified that you can repair any bridge. - Isambard 05:59, 29 October 2006 (GMT)

Inventory Comparisons

I'm not much of a programmer; could somebody slap together a quick and dirty device by which two inventories can be compared? Naturally, it would hold whatever restrictions there existed, but I know that both mine and Sheyona's inventories are publically viewable, whether in spares or in their entirety.
This would greatly facilitate trade. macksting 09:13, 26 October 2006 (BST)

I think I probably have most of that already written from the CitiesWorth program. If I get some time today I'll see if I can stick it together. MrFoo 09:56, 26 October 2006 (BST)
Ask and ye shall recieve: Inventory Compare MrFoo 14:15, 26 October 2006 (BST)
Hence the inspiration! Thank you very, very much. Interestingly enough, it will contrast martial arts as well; my Painful Punch shows up, whereas none of hers do at all. (The master demands a Vorpal Sword from her. I got lucky.) macksting 02:43, 27 October 2006 (BST)
Addendum: I have way too much crap. macksting 02:50, 27 October 2006 (BST)


You are pissed.
You lose a Mug of Ale.
That put hairs on your chest.
This is new. I've never gotten this message before; it may be related to having recently completed the Rock Soc Pub Crawl, which has made it increasingly difficult to get plastered. Is it possible, just possible, that a mug of ale no longer does anything for me? That I get no more drunk off a mug of ale than I do off water due to equalizing AP expenditure versus the changing to-hit? Or maybe it's just saying I should try something harder in general. I'd hate to think it's a comment on the festival; I'm sporting bling and a flashy Skybox Airship. Doc Mackie 08:00, 24 October 2006 (BST)

"Boooorring" is the message you get when hallucination wears off. --Dragon 08:10, 24 October 2006 (BST)
Oh. I have seen that message before, now that you mention it. Still, it was an awfully amusing interpretation. macksting 08:13, 24 October 2006 (BST)

JohnnyRogers on Two Airships?!

On an unrelated but physically adjacent note, unless somebody's wearing a disguise and' has used the Toad spell, which I'm not even sure are compatible, JohnnyRogers is in two different airships. This seems wrong, somehow. While it is possible I'm hallucinating (licking toads can do that; for a while, I swore the ballet dancers were ninja) I suspect the effect has worn off by now. Could somebody please confirm this, and possibly explain it? macksting 08:04, 24 October 2006 (BST)

I see the same thing, and don't think a disguise kit could give someone the toad background. I believe someone mentioned being able to board a speeder bike and an Air Ship simultaneously--this should probably go under Bugs. --Dragon 08:10, 24 October 2006 (BST)
...were it not so very, very funny. macksting 08:11, 24 October 2006 (BST)
I maanaged (at the first Party) to be on a speeder bike, on a magic carpet, on an airship (IIRC, may have been on a 2nd magic carpet) MrFoo 10:12, 24 October 2006 (BST)

Inequality between players

I'm concerned about the new time-based effects. The 15 min was already short if you wanted to walk 100 AP between two totems and had a slow connection. But now we have 2 spells that are reported to last 3 and 1 minutes; that makes a huge difference between a DSL connection and a modem one. My own connection is fast enough, but I would rather the game stayed on AP-based effects. Any comments?--Solune 22:03, 23 October 2006 (BST)

Even as a person who has recently acquired a high-speed connection, I'd like to voice agreement on this point. Put it in the Suggestions, and go ahead and drop a note into a Suggestion Box in one of the Cities. macksting 07:53, 24 October 2006 (BST)

Stupid Question (AirShip)

Has anyone tried using an AirShip to get over the barrier mountains and into the interior interior? I've got the airship and will make the time to try if noone else has. - looser

Watches intently for replies macksting 23:16, 20 October 2006 (BST)
I think they did although I couldn't say who. What they certainly tried is using the 'hop' spell to cross an obstacle. As an air ship works the same way as walking on land (same AP cost) I'm pretty sure it doesn't work.--Solune 23:43, 20 October 2006 (BST)
Still, as we haven't heard from the individual who tried, I'd give you kudos for trying it. macksting 00:30, 21 October 2006 (BST)
I tried, and dont work. In fact, you cant fly even over the KOT HQ ancev 01:18, 21 October 2006 (BST)
At least we don't need to worry about bombers, eh? macksting 06:31, 21 October 2006 (BST)
Nope, can't get over barrier mountains. Unfortunately. They are, however, very useful for getting onto islands when you are not near a beach. -palindrome 22:31, 23 October 2006 (BST)
EXCELLENT! <face-melting guitar riff> And they make excellent skyboxes at concerts. macksting 07:54, 24 October 2006 (BST)

JaneEveryone needs help

I'm currently at a standing stone, ready to worship, but I fear I will fall asleep and forget to align that stone. Can someone wake me up at 1:00 GMT and ensure I fullfil my quest obligations?--JaneEveryone 20:45, 18 October 2006 (BST)

Ok, Thin get that pinata.--Qazxcv 23:55, 18 October 2006 (BST)
Done that. --Qazxcv 00:00, 19 October 2006 (BST)

What manner of beast is this?

Spelling Fly (1) Damage unknown. Concievably an illusion, judging from the hit points, and yet it could not be targetted with any of my weapons including Wand of Anger or Cruel Blade. Spotted at 93E 3S. macksting 11:07, 17 October 2006 (BST)

Would need to sudy the interaction with Umlauts, vowels and consonants.--Solune 11:38, 17 October 2006 (BST)
Nope. Doesn't seem to interact with spells either. Hendsch 21:00, 18 October 2006 (BST)
Has anyone tried saying/shouting/singing badly spelled words near it? MrFoo 21:21, 18 October 2006 (BST)
Interesting tidbit: saying Citys near one gives you a point of poison. One at 53E 74N if anyone wants to play with it. (Possibly a fluke. I HAD been fighting a Triffid a while before, but am almost sure it didn't get me.) --Gilgren 05:03, 19 October 2006 (BST)
I just tried 'Citys', no poison or anything for that matter. Seems to be a fluke or as you suggested the Triffid --Ajaswa 14:16, 2 November 2006 (GMT)
Oooh! Oooh! Try these words: chough (although technically a correct spelling of a bird), esplinade, gorgan, monastary, monastry, pheonix. :-D More test words to be found over here.
I wonder if any other bugs are going to manifest? Stelio 12:23, 19 October 2006 (BST)
Can anybody else verify that said monster does cause any effects, whatsoever, with misspelled words? A good control experiment would be to say "Citys" near it. macksting 19:16, 19 October 2006 (BST)
i just tried it with a new user. Nothing. Maybe you need a certain level of experiece or have consanants/vowels alreadyf or ti to work. I tried 'citys, pheonix, chough, monastary, totum, plans for a air ship', and maybe one other... Nothing- greg
Has anyone tried spelling words? (c i t y s) If normal spelling doesn't work, may be worth trying in classic spelling bee format too. (citys c i t y s citys) -Scrumbucket 22:07, 20 October 2006 (BST)
I tried FLY f l y Fly nothing...there is one at 66E 45N...has anyone tried Hard words, like the upper level spelling bee words?? Spacer one 07:46, 28 October 2006 (BST)

Spelling Bee (30) has appered as well. Seen at 32E 108N --Qazxcv 20:03, 20 October 2006 (BST) They are all over the fire swamp. - looser

Spelling didn't work did "c i t y s" and "citys c i t y s citys"- greg
By the way somebody managed to kill those beasts (look -> monster bashing league) -- 15:51, 23 October 2006 (BST)
Aha! Maybe you have to attack them while polymorphed into a toad? Random4518 16:51, 23 October 2006 (BST)
How come noone's spelling 'cities' right? I don't get it.windowmere 16:51, 23 October 2006 (BST)

Also, one at 62E 71N. Can't figure it out, though. Tried saying both 'cities' and 'citys' to no obvious effect... Gruther4 16:39, 27 October 2006 (BST)

OK, to clarify: "JohnnyRogers the toad" is in the lead for them on the Monster-Bashing League, so I thought maybe you have to cast a Toad spell to polymorph into a toad and eat them. Random4518 00:10, 28 October 2006 (BST)

I can confirm that the way to kill them is to turn into a toad. Hendsch 14:38, 2 November 2006 (GMT)

Amateur Association of Useless Statistics

Not affiliated with the Department of Pointless Statistics.

Stats on how many AP have been spent by each character (taken at about 10:40 17/10/2006). Just because I wondered. -Stelio 11:03, 17 October 2006 (BST)

Character Number of AP spent per character Population Statistics
Category Count Minimum 3rd Quartile Median 1st Quartile Maximum Mean Std. Dev Variance Skewness Kurtosis
All active characters 725 1 8774 24250 40066 227273 26304.0 21173.3 4.4831E+08 1.7554 13.9122
Air characters 159 2 8202.5 27277 42635.5 113527 27706.0 21204.5 4.4963E+08 0.6605 3.4452
Earth characters 166 1 9654.75 24555 41931.75 227273 27390.1 24900.5 6.2004E+08 3.3618 26.3283
Fire characters 249 5 8940 24097 39162 113023 26321.5 20231.6 4.0932E+08 0.7802 3.6488
Water characters 151 45 8812 19796 35977 82169 23605.1 17657.3 3.1178E+08 0.7176 2.9729
No career 156 1 278 2045.5 7012.25 82169 6656.6 13144.2 1.7277E+08 3.4916 15.8543
Career: Knight 543 2412 28627 44202 13471.5 34840 30860.8 19091.6 3.6449E+08 2.4351 22.9190
- Sir 43 2289 4970 7357 14725.5 34840 10294.7 7385.1 5.4540E+07 1.3072 4.5558
- Baron 42 2412 8723.25 10514.5 13255.25 38404 13097.9 7600.4 5.7766E+07 1.6665 5.3817
- Earl 122 3741 13710 20534.5 28307.5 70793 21755.8 11131.3 1.2391E+08 1.1276 5.3846
- Duke 336 5855 27599.5 37599 47915.5 227273 39019.1 18428.8 3.3962E+08 3.5052 34.4342
Career: Wizard 13 10594 42216 48956 68593 113527 56377.5 28730.9 8.2546E+08 0.5660 2.7174
- Apprentice 12 10594 38578.75 48170 65914 108157 51615.1 24482.6 5.9940E+08 0.5220 3.2866
- Shaman 1 113527 113527 113527 113527 113527 113527.0        
Career: Armourer 13 10520 31706 44485 51847 61856 41669.5 15452.8 2.3879E+08 -0.6113 2.3014
- Smith 13 10520 31706 44485 51847 61856 41669.5 15452.8 2.3879E+08 -0.6113 2.3014
Not a doctor 226 1 1052.5 4290.5 11802.25 113527 12228.5 19421.6 3.7720E+08 2.4752 9.5759
Doctor 499 1612 18954.5 30767 43014.5 227273 32678.9 18712.3 3.5015E+08 2.6737 25.7187
What is Kurtosis? macksting 11:07, 17 October 2006 (BST)
  • The mean (first central moment) gives a measure of where the central mass of the data lies.
  • The variance (second central moment) tells us how spread out the data is around the mean (high variance = wide data distribution). The square root of the vaiance is the standard deviation, and this is in the same units as the mean so can be used as a quick "plus or minus" figure around the mean to understand the breadth of the data.
  • The skewness (third central moment) shows how symmetric the data are (0 = symmetric, positive = weightier data for values below the mean, negative = weightier data for values above the mean).
  • The kurtosis (fourth central moment) is a measure of "peakedness". A high value indicates a distribution like a tall spike and a negative kurtosis indicates a flattened distribution. For comparitive purposes, the normal distribution (a "bell curve") has a kurtosis of 3.
 :-D Stelio 11:29, 17 October 2006 (BST)

Southeastern Caves?

I just noticed some of the caves in the South-west quadrant have entrances down. At least the one I checked was a dead end - dunno if the others are as well. Is this new? -- Thog 02:43, 17 October 2006 (BST)

Er, different from the South-West Tunnels? (Or do you mean southeast?) The southwest tunnels have already been mapped pretty well, but if this is something different, please post the locations of these caves. --Dragon 05:43, 17 October 2006 (BST)
D'oh. One day I will learn my east from my west. The two I've seen are over near Earth City (I believe that would be the south-east, no?). When I get a chance, I'll see if I can find them again, but at least two of them aren't too far from the trail nearest to Earth City and the Southern Market. -- Thog 13:12, 17 October 2006 (BST)
They been go down-able at least since the Northeast tunnels opened (there's one fairly close to the northeast-southeast border that I took by accident). I've tried 3 or 4 and they've all been dead ends. Wandering through the quadrant, mapping the location of entrances and checking if they're all dead ends is something I've been meaning to do, but haven't gotten around to. Hendsch 13:19, 17 October 2006 (BST)

Glass Sword/ Catana trade

I have 4 Catana's (and counting) that I have picked up from the ninjas I kill while cleaning out the forrest. BUT I've found it's easiest to get rid of pesky Giant Spiders with glass swords. So. I'd like to trade. My catanas for your glass swords. Does this sound fair? palintir or post. Also this is a permenant offer. So if down the road a bit, you say to yourself, damn i want a relyable high powered weapon, come looking for a Donkey Catana and bring one of your glass swords. - Donkey 21:54, 16 October 2006 (BST)

Pub Crawl Trek

I'm organizing a mass Pub Crawl. More info at User:Stevie-O/Pub_Crawl_Trek. Note to newbies: This trek is useful for you, too.

Stevie-O 01:01, 16 October 2006 (BST)

How do you intend to handle the Brighthelm and Bentnob legs of the pub crawl? Perhaps we could use some relatively sober tour guides to help clear the path. Magic Carpets and Air Ships may also come in handy for transporting those having trouble walking. Ravensdance 01:25, 16 October 2006 (BST)
As one of the people who intends to sign up, I was wondering if we could get a designated monster driver. After all, none of us will be in any condition to defend ourselves against the random Really Angry Earthworm. As to Bentnob, it's accessible from Valhalla; there was also talk of making the Brighthelm trip by airship, then summoning the first in the list, who would summon the next and so on; in fact, it sounded like that was the primary method for many places.
At certain times of day, Limbo might be more of a challenge. macksting 02:13, 16 October 2006 (BST)
If you're drunk enough for the crawl you're probably drunk enough to see spirits. JohnnyRogers 02:26, 16 October 2006 (BST)
Oh yeah, forgot it wasn't time-dependent when you're plastered. macksting 03:17, 16 October 2006 (BST)
There are plenty of summon stones at the southern market if anyone needs extras :) MrFoo 11:38, 16 October 2006 (BST)
As someone who has done the pub crawl, I only encountered monsters in Limbo. The road between Bentnob and Brighthelm was clean, and is probably always like that. I'd start in the south, and then use Limbo to go back to Kingdom. -- LittleHamster 11:47, 16 October 2006 (BST)
yeah but you have to be really wasted to get thru the ferry.
This can be done. However, it might be easiest just to have somebody blow his/her Horn of Heimdall and go to Brighthelm that way, then have everybody else summon eachother there in a chain. It's probably more reliable than Brighthelm rocks, which have a bad habit of depositing the player somewhere that is not Brighthelm. macksting 17:20, 16 October 2006 (BST)
In my opinion nothing beats the custom talisman but of course not everybody can make them--Solune 22:19, 16 October 2006 (BST)
I have an airship that I will use to get from Bentnob to Brighthelm. In the unfortunate event that that breaks, I also have a Survey Vessel (which can get me from BN to BH in little more than 50AP). Also, I have a Spirit Sword and can easily clear out Limbo *before* we get started. Stevie-O 05:02, 17 October 2006 (BST)
Would you like me to do the Bentnob to Brighthelm run? I can back up my Air Ship with a Speedboat. Ravensdance 08:56, 19 October 2006 (BST)

Bags and Thieves

Thieves don't touch sticky stuff (ie what stays with you when you die. Beyond that they have a free hand. There's a 50% chance of them not having it on their person when killed. So beware. Elseware 02:34, 14 October 2006 (BST)
OMG! There's a chance of them still having it?! macksting 02:15, 16 October 2006 (BST)

Since I am about to join the cause of Treeman cleansing (seasoned/enchanted wood seems to be the raw material of choice for building/making expensive toys), here is a question regarding Thieves and their act of stealing: Would thieves grab bags and run with them? besides stacking everything valuable I have on my alternate self, is storing stuff in a bag an option for safe keeping goodies while traveling on Thieves turf? "Lost" is a scary thought... --Dragoon 18:42, 13 October 2006 (BST)

Storing your stuff on an alternate character to keep it safe is where (I think) the term mule came from. It is not allowed. There now appears to be two alternatives. I believe the intention is for the vaults to be used for this purpose. You could achieve a similar effect by opening a shop. Hendsch 18:49, 13 October 2006 (BST)
I thought 'mule' came instead because it is a creature that works unceasingly for somebody else in return for little benefit. The wikipedia (*not* a definitive resource for MMO terms from what I have seen) mentions the holding of items, but I think in most MMOs this was to get around inventory capacity restrictions. Droll 18:56, 13 October 2006 (BST)
Droll's definition makes more sense. I am sure it's not allowed, though. Hendsch 19:17, 13 October 2006 (BST)
I've had dragon stones stolen, gorgons heads, caravels... you name it. I don't think your new bag is proof against a thief. They're mean. That is why I kill them off. I don't need much, just a dragon stone and a bunch of alignment wands. If you want wood and to keep your stuff... lets make a deal.copperisblue
Theives can indeed steal bags. The thought of a bag full of your most valuable treasures being stolen in scary, so you're better off if you didn't put them in a bag (I think). Why couldn't you fill a bag and give it to a player that is not an alt of yours? I would be happy to hold it for you while you slew theives, and I'm sure there are others who would too. I don't see how this could be frowned on any more than a cucumber sandwich party or herb cabinet-ing. -palindrome 04:52, 14 October 2006 (BST)

I've killed my share of the larger thieves, and have yet to have one take a bag. I don't doubt that its possible, but in terms of actual evidence, I've yet to see it happen, and I've had pretty much anything else you can think of stolen at one point or another (Speedboat, books, weapons, a note, etc.) Zingus 19:34, 13 October 2006 (BST)

I've had a thief take a bag before. It was empty, but still... -- Thog 19:39, 13 October 2006 (BST)
Hopefully mud men are now a good way to collect ancient wood without risk. And the more mud we collect the more barelly-controlled golems our wizard friends will summon--Solune 07:45, 14 October 2006 (BST)

Complex Interactions


By all accounts, dying halves your kudos. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind that as dying is more to do with misfortune than being evil, but that's not the subject of my question. I was more interested in the interaction between a geometric function (halving) with an unlimited arithmetic variable (kudos). The specific interaction that I'm considering is this: if your kudos is negative (because you're just so evil - or you really hate seals) would dying actually increase your kudos, because halving would move it closer to zero (and so make it more positive)? Probably not something that is likely to come up, but I was amused at the thought. -Stelio 16:43, 13 October 2006 (BST)

Never seen negative kudos before. Since it corresponds to an inventory item, I don't think you can have below 0. --Dragon 17:24, 13 October 2006 (BST)
Actually since the change dying only costs you 10 kudos although it stil says 'cut in half'--Solune 18:31, 13 October 2006 (BST)

Damage Multiplier

Upon becoming an Apprentice, one's Damage Multiplier is dropped back down to 1, removing the benefit gained from the Knight quests and the Duel. But what if you haven't completed the Duel before you become a Wizard? Can you switch to being an Apprentice, and then do the Duel to get a Damage Multiplier of 2? Again, it's something that may not be discovered for a long time as the experienced players that are going down the route of Wizard now will have completed the Duel a long time ago. In case no one else has thought of this before, I'm not signing up for the Duel and some time (in the far distant future) I'll set out to become a Wizard and see what happens (other than the Great Desert being a constant source of pain). Unless of course someone who knows these things lets slip the answer. :-D -Stelio 16:43, 13 October 2006 (BST)

You do not get the damage multiplier if you wait to Duel until after becoming a Wizard, but winning the Duel does open up the Gauntlet for you. ATC 19:40, 13 October 2006 (BST)
Pity, that. Could've been handy. Hopefully a class change allows one to get that multiplier after completion. macksting 20:37, 13 October 2006 (BST)

Enchanting Mud

Ok, so I've got some mud, and I know there is a spell that wizards may cast that requires mud, but I've no idea what that spell does. Do you? If so, and you want some mud... I'll donate some units for the knowledge(I'm not wizardly)Density 16:09, 13 October 2006 (BST)

Oh, and furthermore, if you are wizardly and have a copy of the spell but don't know what it does... we can find out together. I've got the mud! (density)
If the spell makes allusions to Legend of the Red Dragon or somesuch... the world will hear me groan.Density 16:10, 13 October 2006 (BST)
I've seen "Magic Mud" on the market. It was too expensive to buy for experimentation when I was there, but it's since dropped in price. Random4518 17:45, 13 October 2006 (BST)
I have one copy of enchant mud, so if I try it and it's good, I'll be kicking myself for not transcribing it to my spellbook. On the other hand if I transcribe it to my spellbook and it isn't useful, I'll be kicking myself for wasting the spellbook slot. My suspicion is that it is something that Smiths can use as a building material. Hendsch 18:02, 13 October 2006 (BST)
You can make little monsters with Magic Mud and Pointed Sticks, kind of like gladiators. Droll 18:15, 13 October 2006 (BST)
Golems! Cool. Hendsch 18:40, 13 October 2006 (BST)
Other than the obvious fun, what use are they? macksting 16:02, 14 October 2006 (BST)
Addendum: The "obvious" being to have a solid, irritating barrier to players trying to pass, much in the way a gladiator is. Other than this, what use? macksting 02:17, 16 October 2006 (BST)

Business Proposal (bling and more)

I am looking for a wizard to start a business with me. I can make Bling Bling. You can enchant it and then we can split the profit from selling. Also interested in starting an armour shop, if you can provide the leather (it's really hard to kill those jabberwockys in one blow with a mere smith damage modifier). Palantir me if you're interested. vloodo 02:21, 11 October 2006 (BST)

Island Hop

I'm making a sojurn to Bombadiers Island so send me a palintir or sign up for a summons on the island hopping page and maybe you'll get to improve your base to hit! MAsterpete

OK- I'm here. I've got 2 stones left. ANyone want a go?

I've done mine, personally. Have you checked the Military Island Hoppers page? (For some reasons, it's a little hard to get to, but I don't know how to edit it into pages.) macksting 18:32, 12 October 2006 (BST)
There's a link to it on the main page--Solune 20:27, 12 October 2006 (BST)
So there is. I'd never spotted it, despite looking. macksting 21:36, 12 October 2006 (BST)
According to the list, there's currently no one waiting for summoning. Random4518 18:46, 12 October 2006 (BST)
Yeah, i only mention it here becuase I feel like the the list doesn't get a lot of traffic, and the only time I came close to completing the quest myself was when someone else posted in conversatiosn that they were going and would summon anyone who gave them a stone. As it was i didn't have the cards or finances at the time to do it, but I got it together to make a boat and decided to do a good turn. I just feel bad that I've only been able to summon 1 person. -Masterpete
I am looking for a summon there! (sent Palantir and now on the page also) ATC 19:41, 12 October 2006 (BST)

- you're there. anyone else?

Thank you! ATC 20:08, 12 October 2006 (BST)

How much are you worth

Just how much is all that rubbish in your inventory worth at today's market prices? Well find out with the Cities Worth Calculator. It does it's best to match your inventory with current market prices, and shows you how much you could get by selling everything.

Please note your inventory needs to be set so that anyone can see everything. Also the total doesn't include things in bags, or your gold pieces.

MrFoo 17:20, 10 October 2006 (BST)

Apparently, 2679551 gold, minus about 17000 gold pieces and a few books. macksting 18:27, 10 October 2006 (BST)
While very awesome, it does have a problem. The more rare and unique an item is, the less likely it will be found in the markets, and anything not found in the markets has a value of zero on your site. But, hey, it's still cool to know i'm worth 2.6 million gold (not including my own gold pieces). So.... who wants to pay for a night with me? --Gaccm
A fun toy. A fundamental problem that the price in the market is higher than anyone is willing to pay (or it would have sold). It also seemed to value my sci-fi books as zero even though most are avalable in the markets. It would be appropriate to just set cards at 1K and books at 5K since they can be sold to shops at that price. Hendsch 19:12, 10 October 2006 (BST)
Are cards really 1k ? Then why is the current price 500 for most of them?--Solune 19:36, 10 October 2006 (BST)
A shop in Brighthelm used to buy them for 1K, maybe it's been nerfed and I'm the last to know (as usual). If it still buys them, prices may be cheaper because many can't cross the desert or aren't aware of it. Hendsch 19:48, 10 October 2006 (BST)
Pretty sure it still buys them. I was there recently. Random4518 20:49, 10 October 2006 (BST)
The prices aren't all "overpriced", you assume that as soon as something is cheap enough, it'll be bought, which is crap, the prices are (generally) the going price, and it uses the cheapest price on all 4 markets, meaning it's very competetive for prices. MrFoo 20:28, 10 October 2006 (BST)
I agree the markets provide a very good price for the common items. But some items have been on the market at that price for a very long time. (I'm thinking the cup of tea for 100,000 GP, for example). Anyway, some items may be slightly inaccurate but it's definitely a fun toy. I've calculated my net worth twice already. Hendsch 21:16, 10 October 2006 (BST)
Yowza - 16808340 Gold was a bit more than I expected. Nick 21:18, 10 October 2006 (BST)
It was asked above why cards would sell for something like 500gp, here is my answer. The markets are not just for money, there are easier ways to get money (I'd rather pheonix pharm). But I do need to sell things for the quick draw. I've sold a number of cards for ~500 a piece. I could have gotten more money for them, but I knew they would sell quickly. I had all the 1,000 dollar sells I needed. Just needed to boost my total number of sells for the next level of quick draw. And showing up to the market to realize you have an extra 20k sitting there for pickup that you had forgotten about is always fun, too.Density 14:39, 11 October 2006 (BST)
I'd also point out never to underestimate the power of laziness - I've sold books (and occasionally a card) for less than I could get for them in Brighthelm simply because I didn't want to burn the AP needed to go there. -- Thog 16:21, 11 October 2006 (BST)
Or the AP needed to sell them there. That's the reason I don't sell my 400+ tarot cards in Brighthelm--it would cost 400+ AP. Putting them in the market or in a market stall, however, can be done in bulk. If someone else wants to buy a ton of tarot cards and go sell them in Brighthelm, they can make money doing it--but I consider my AP to be more valuable than that. --Dragon 16:46, 11 October 2006 (BST)
I've got a bunch of cards that I've never sold for similar reasoning. Now that there's a clinic invite at the southern market for 250K (worth 400 AP just in coffee even if you can't reach perfect caffeination twice), I have a new excuse to justify not spending 150AP selling cards to buy a clinic invite: I'm afraid they'll be a spell component in the future. I was sure glad I hadn't sold any before the cavern quest started. Hendsch 17:21, 11 October 2006 (BST)
Those of you looking to sell your large lots of tarot cards can bring them to my shop, I pay 500 gold each. Sure it's less than you'd get in Brighthelm, but I'm only about 9 steps from the Shrine of Air AND you can sell your whole inventory of cards for 22 AP or less. We take books too (2500 GP each for Heinleins), but I don't have a complete set so we can't buy all of them just yet. Jon's Shop between Windy City and the King's Road, just South of the main road. -Jon 18:18, 11 October 2006 (BST)
This is cool. It doesn't factor in the items in my shop (does it?) and there were a bunch of items with no market equivalents, so hopefully I'm worth a little more than this (8930567 GP) =] -Jon 23:23, 10 October 2006 (BST)
Nice toy - but it grossly undervalues stuff, since it lists aligned bows as 0 and has no pricing for armour or other rare items. Still a fair bit of programming I wouldn't want to bother with :) Syagrius 16:54, 11 October 2006 (BST)
Aye; I wonder if it can store the last non-0 price for something? macksting 18:09, 11 October 2006 (BST)
No, it's completely state-less. It gets the prices from citiesberg, and the uer inventory from cities, and has no storage itself. Partly to make it easier to write, and partly to make sure no one can do naughty things by pissing around with it. MrFoo 18:35, 11 October 2006 (BST)

My most overpriced item

bits of lead for 450 each giving me a total of 450,000. Somehow I doubt that I could make that much money by selling them--Solune 19:40, 10 October 2006 (BST)

220 olives at 3000 GP each for 660000 GP. Hendsch 20:58, 10 October 2006 (BST)

401 Roc Rocks at 9000 Gold each, for a total of 3609000 Gold. Nick 21:20, 10 October 2006 (BST)

That's much money, but 9000 is still a fair price for roc rocks (if you would sell them for less please tell me)--Solune 22:11, 10 October 2006 (BST)

42 Power Crystals for 0GP :p Chad 22:21, 10 October 2006 (BST)

A Golden Sickle for 150,000 seems insane to me. -Jon 23:25, 10 October 2006 (BST)

Ever try making one? It's not pretty. macksting 07:29, 11 October 2006 (BST)
I did, and I still have it. That cost just seems staggering to me. I'm almost tempted to make another though and try to sell it =] -Jon 12:22, 11 October 2006 (BST)
A golden sickle for 150k is incredibly cheap when one wand of convincing illusion is valued at 100k. -- LittleHamster 15:58, 11 October 2006 (BST)

A Question About the Ancient Castle

So, I'm in the castle, and I'm on the staircase that leads down from the undercroft. The problem is that I can only go down 1 flight of stairs and then I'm stuck on the staircase and have to go back up. Now, I haven't killed any guards yet, so that might be the reason, but do I need to kill every single guard there? Or, am i missing something entirely? --Gaccm

My guess is that you need to kill all the colours which includes ultra violent guards that are invisible. Annoyingly I didn't have any method of seeing invisible stuff (I tried beer goggles which didn't seem to work - though there might just have been no ultra violet guards there). In the end I left and will attempt to buy something that allows me to see invisible stuff (now I come to think of it, can you see other invisible stuff if you wear a cloak of invisibility?) Platypus 08:12, 9 October 2006 (BST)

Not sure, but while you're at it, I think you might have to kill them in order...? macksting 08:54, 9 October 2006 (BST)
Check out the short conversation here and make sure you have something with you that allows you to see invisible - and fight! The only items doing this that I know of are the Spirit Sword and the Diamond Bling. Flt 13:02, 9 October 2006 (BST)
You do have to kill them in a certain order. When I did this quest, the only way of seeing invisible creatures and hitting them was with my spirit sword. i couldn't even align the ultra-violet guard. he does like 50 damage i think, and has 1000 health, so it was a real pain in the ass. Make sure you have a dragon stone or a whole lot of clean bandages Tulk
Thanks for the help, last question though, do I need to kill every single guard on the whole level? Will other people appear, or does each person get their own level to wipe out? --Gaccm 19:10, 9 October 2006 (BST)
No, you don't have to kill them all, just kill them in the proper order. Syagrius 19:15, 9 October 2006 (BST)

Wanna Get to Bognor

Well, looks like I need to get to Bognor. Got some quests to do, don'cha know. Got no hats, so I was wondering... could somebody please summon me there? macksting 06:54, 7 October 2006 (BST)

Problem possibly solved, but I'll keep my ears open in case I find a more interesting solution. macksting 07:48, 7 October 2006 (BST)
Im in Bognor at the mo and have a spare stone. I dont mind summoning you. Zombie 17:15, 7 October 2006 (BST)
Suits me. Would be nice. macksting 08:20, 8 October 2006 (BST)
Tis done Zombie 13:08, 8 October 2006 (BST)
Awesome. :) macksting 19:13, 8 October 2006 (BST)

Gold Stats

It occurs to me that if I'm going to go to the trouble of producing details stats on how much gold people have (split by various categories as requested) then I'm at least going to advertise it at the top of the page rather than letting it go unseen right at the bottom. :-)

Go to the end of the page to see that it's true: promotion does mean more money, and doctors really do earn more. Fact! Stelio 11:19, 5 October 2006 (BST)

Limbo Question


  1. You get sent to Limbo after being inactive for a week. (Source: Limbo)
  2. Being in Limbo removes you from all of the league tables. (Source: Limbo#Notes)
  3. There are at least 6000 registered users. (Source: Cities:Conversation#Economics)

So why does the the "hours since last active" scores table show anyone past 168 hours? It can't be that it shows every user since there are only 745 listed currently.

Just curious. :-) Stelio 10:34, 4 October 2006 (BST)

There are a couple of ways not to be sent to Limbo: when you are in Holiday island, or in the retirement village you can stay there forever.--Solune 12:33, 4 October 2006 (BST) 12:36, 4 October 2006 (BST): The retirement village at holiday island prevent you from being sent to limbo.

btw, I just looked up the people with the most AP. Holiday Island Ho's basically...

11463   frizzi fire
11860   timmaio water
12227   Gilraen water
13065   LimeHan water
13102   Cube Boyd water
13521   Zombie earth
14391   stalkergrrl fire
17761   cirle fire
17852   tabitha r'al fire
17860   zandet earth
18110   Dortmunder water
18271   Chivk water
19653   Rick Dagless water
20131   bcsnyder fire
20547   sybil air
22087   Kenndogg fire
22134   Like Pearl air 
22144   BlueM&M earth 
23189   Watcher air
66176   Lalumi water

Lalumi has a crazy ass apdelay due to the fact that an early bug let her to the air initiation twice.

7       Sheep-Sheep fire
7       Nick earth
7       JohnnyRogers earth
7       hendsch fire
7       Droll earth
7       dragon fire
3       Lalumi water

Thanks for the quick response, and the fascinating look behind the scenes at some startling character stats. :-D Stelio 13:34, 4 October 2006 (BST)
3?! Gah. You know how much work it took to get an apdelay of 7? I suppose it doesn't matter since the 66176AP would have come over 137 days of inactivity, so I don't really expect them to come back, but still...--Dragon 18:11, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Yeah, still... how long would it take to use it all? You could complete a considerable amount of work in a very short period of time, actually. Might be worth writing a script for! macksting 19:44, 4 October 2006 (BST)
I think the next party should be on Holiday Island on whatever square Lalumi is standing on and the owner needs to log in and join the party. that's what I think -Jon 20:20, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Hmmm, so after finishing the Totem quest Lalumi would be down to 2 min regen time... sweet! (down to 10 min after first air initiation, down to 5 min after second air initiation, 4 min after Time and Space and 3 min after Standing Stones) -TerrorRemedy 20:43, 4 October 2006 (BST)
I'm just waiting for a quest worth doing, checking in atleast once a week actually. How about implementing my health bonus idea on the quest suggestions page? --Frizzi 05:37, 7 October 2006 (BST)
If you're advanced enough for this to be an issue, bear in mind that, presently, there are no second-level wizards. The quest involved is, apparently, quite involved and long. As this would actually lend a great deal of functionality to the class, and Elseware won't program lev. 3 quests for it until there are 5 lev 2 wizards, I'd suggest getting to work so that the rest of us have something pretty to look at. macksting 05:40, 7 October 2006 (BST)


They arent on the Tarot at the moment. Does this mean that they have been removed from the Tarot or that none currently exist? Seems this ancient wood shortage is becoming quite acute. I need 7 pieces for the northern quests. Anyone want to trade? Zombie 08:26, 4 October 2006 (BST)

It just means at the current time, all Treemen are dead. Don't worry, they'll come back if you clear the forest of other creatures. I've updated the Tarot Deck entry to explain this. -- LittleHamster 10:08, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Thanks I thought it would be that. Have cleared vast swathes of forest and have been checking periodically through the day for the fabled Treeman but to no avail. They are rarer than Gorgon S**T! Its gonna take me weeks to get the Ancient wood at this rate! Im glad I already built my boats. Zombie 14:26, 4 October 2006 (BST)
You could always ask someone like me to trade you ancient wood for useful things. For instance, I would be happy to do something like 1 piece of ancient wood for 2 earth wands (I go through them so quickly). Long bows are also nice (two shots per thief). A single potion of accuracy would guarantee you a stockpile of wood.Copperisblue 17:55, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Not that I want to stop Zombie from getting a bargain, but you can pick up Earth Wands on the market for about 250GP, whereas Ancient Wood tends to sell for over 5k Srboneidle2 21:06, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Wow it's only 5k, then there is not so much shortage. I would consider hiring some Ancient lumberjack players for that price.--Solune 21:51, 4 October 2006 (BST)
And speaking as someone who's put a good portion of the Ancient Wood on the market, there's still quite a lot there, all in the 5000-8000 gp range. -- Thog 22:18, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Although I'm in Oz, I, too, would be quite willing to trade with you, having some extra Ancient Wood lying around. I find it helps to keep extra. (Are ye makin' a boat? That would take a while, and every little bit helps.) I'm particularly interested in Air Bows, myself. macksting 19:46, 4 October 2006 (BST)
Thanks guys. I only needed 7 for the 25 needed for the Northern quests. I got lucky last night and foud 3 Treemen and that did the job. Im off to the icy wastes now. Zombie 08:26, 5 October 2006 (BST)
btw, I know how much earth wands go for on the markets, I tend to buy 10 of them at a time. But it means leaving the forrest and heading all the way over to one of the markets and buying as many wands as I can afford at the time (and pushing a few things for sale like catanas). Since I have ancient wood and have no real use for it and since I'm always loosing earth wands to those pesky ninjas... a 2 for 1 is worth it to me.Copperisblue 15:51, 5 October 2006 (BST)
Yeah, same with me and fire wands. I don't tend to buy them much, mind you; mostly, I don't hunt tars and ninjas so terribly much that I suffer serious shortages. I only go after them when there aren't any treemen and I feel a need to clear some forest. (Even then, incidentally. I prefer squirrel hunting!) macksting 09:56, 6 October 2006 (BST)
ARRR! Bloody Tree Rats! How we hates them! Will kills them with relish! And Badgers, too! (if anyone would like mushrooms, they're free. Strands of Silk, too! Venom Sacks GALORE! Buy one knife, the next 20 are free!)Copperisblue 16:47, 6 October 2006 (BST)
Due to prevelence of both and to the risks inherent in fighting tree rats, I recommend using ordinary bows against them. Five shots is usually enough redundancy, and the damage is high enough to pull it off. I find that missing vs. tree rats is really irritating, so overwhelming force and numbers of attack is preferable. macksting 03:45, 7 October 2006 (BST)

Single to Oz

Yay, I have a single to Oz (dropped by a large living tar) and I know the airport is supposed to be near Fire city, but I've been wandering round aimlessly trying to find it. Can anyone give me either coordinates or help narrow it down a bit eg to the North or East. Thanks Platypus 17:10, 3 October 2006 (BST)

Take the road East toward Water City. At 15E there's a branch that takes you south to 'Kingdom airport, which is centered on 15E 91N. --Dragon 18:17, 3 October 2006 (BST)
Thanks Dragon -- Platypus
DOn't go without an exit strategy! Limbo talisman or boat are about your only options. - Donkey
Brighthelm rocks work wonderfully too. Syagrius 18:39, 3 October 2006 (BST)
As does the Horn of Heimdall -- Thog 18:57, 3 October 2006 (BST)
Luckily, I'm very well stocked in all of the above. Heck, if anybody's stuck on Oz, I'll gladly find a trading post with 'em. macksting 19:00, 3 October 2006 (BST)
There's also the Barbelith talisman (then break a city talisman of choice), the Marwell talisman, a King's Crest talisman, possibly a vault talisman (then another city talisman - though this is untested), the Arena talisman, one could grow a beanstalk and talisman out. Heck, even a space rocket (then the space elevator) would get you out of Oz. Syagrius 19:12, 3 October 2006 (BST)
And yet I managed not to remember of any of these and broke my home-made brighthelm talisman--Solune 20:02, 3 October 2006 (BST)
Bob in emerald city sells Limbo talismans. I used to as well, but I decided not to compete with him. Hendsch 20:17, 3 October 2006 (BST)
You could also attack a dimensional shambler and take your chances with where leaving the astral plane will land you. That was my first unwitting exit from Oz. Nuru nuru 16:39, 4th October 2006 (JST)

So if you have a Return to Oz, when you use it to board the flight, you get a Single to Kingdom? -- LittleHamster 21:36, 3 October 2006 (BST)

That's accurate yeah. Or a 'Single to the 'Kingdom' if you want to be a pedant. If anyone wants to swap lots of gold for a 24-hour AP-wasting ticket, I'm your man. Nuru nuru 16:37, 4th October 2006 (JST)

Unicornucopia ?

This item has been on the market for a while now, but there doesn't seem to be any info in wiki. can anyone shed some light on it?

Generates a Toy Unicorn for 1AP (reusable). All of mine dropped from large sea creatures. --Dragon 17:40, 30 September 2006 (BST)
On an unrelated note, has anyone played "drug wars", the text based lil game on TI calculators? we could easily incorporate it as a Cities quest... just need to create some Cities cops, as we already have plenty of "herbs" going around.
Wow, that takes me back. Yeah, I've played it, and quite simply 1) we can already do this, somewhat and 2) the way that game was written, the price fluctuations were huge, so you could rack up large amounts of money quickly. I say we can already do this somewhat because the game was basically about exploiting arbitrage by buying and selling items at different times and places. I do this a lot in Cities. (For example, take a look at the price of a Spade or a Seaweed Frond at the markets compared to below the desert. I've been known to buy many things from one market stall and sell to another...). There's still more of a stable market price in cities, but that's because there's an actual market rather than a PRNG behind the prices.  :) --Dragon 17:40, 30 September 2006 (BST)
Don't tell me about it. I bought my first spade at 5000 before I knew they were so cheap South of the desert, and arrows and PH.FTHR are still so expensive at the markets--Solune 00:11, 1 October 2006 (BST)

Back to the question at hand, what on earth does a Toy Unicorn do? macksting 19:47, 4 October 2006 (BST)

Absolutely nothing apart from being a totem item, I think. Also the bling bling had no use before the fashions were invented so you never know.--Solune 21:53, 4 October 2006 (BST)

Bashing League Bonus Question

Not to AP grub- but I'm on top of 3 monster bashing leagues but I only recieve a 10 AP bonus. SHouldn't it be 30? I thought it was 10 per league... Any tips?

It's not 10AP per league, it's 10AP per sqrt(leagues), e.g. 10 for 1, 20 for 4, 30 for 9, 40 for 16. MrFoo 14:33, 30 September 2006 (BST)
Thanks.. Sorry I'm daft.

Items missing at Woodstock or Waynestock?

I've been hanging around the party a lot, and I've noticed an item or perhaps two in my inventory that I'm sure don't belong there. I suspect that these are the results of trades that have gone awry, where I didn't notice the message of them being given to me. (I can't see where my own name is on the list, but perhaps I'm occasionally the default name). If you had a traded item disappear leave a note here (perhaps others have had similar experience). Hendsch 13:30, 29 September 2006 (BST)

If it's a bunch of spells, I was passing them out to the magically inclined- looser.

Speedboat Plans

Duke looser MD is currently in search of speedboat plans for sale, trade or loan. I can offer, money, weapons and a variety of knicknacks. I'm in Fire City at the old trading post if anyone wants to stop by and make an offer.

-- Thanks to palindrome I'll be speeding along shortly. emordnilap is the best!
rock on looser! See you on the salty seas resool ... -palindrome 19:14, 26 September 2006 (BST)
If something goes terribly wrong, as it wont to occur occasionally, I'd be glad to lend a hand at some point. More people on the seas means more fun, s'far as I'm concerned. macksting 19:42, 26 September 2006 (BST)

The Gladiator Joob

I made a huge gladiator, he had 55000 hp, 20 odd knives, 20 odd swords and about 10 bows. I surrounded him with Joob illusions. I thought he would last forever. He didnt even make it a week. :(.

All I want to know was, did he put up a good fight? How much did he hit for? What finished him in the end? Was it a Golden Gun, Midas wand, Gorgon Head, glass swords? The curiosity is killing me! Zombie 13:23, 25 September 2006 (BST)

I don't think you're getting any word on this. Although, now that I've thought about it, I want a Gladiator with a golden gun. macksting 01:31, 30 September 2006 (BST)

Guard Song (also on City Guards)

Let it be known that Guard Tank will pay 5000GP to the composer of the best City Guard song. The song should be suitable for the guards to sing during their drinking sessions and should be fun to sing. It doesn't matter if you portray us in a negative light, as long as it's funny. Suggestions for themes: (1) making us out to be thugs (2) what we look like (big, fat and mean and covered in armour and our famous helmet) (3) what we do (see City Guards). Winner to be chosen in three weeks (16th October 2006) Tank 08:44, 25 September 2006 (BST)


Is there something I'm missing, or are Gauntlets vastly inferior to other types of armour? For example, compare it to a Leather Vambrace:

  • Construction cost: three leather and some iron vs. four leather. Not too much less.
  • Percentage: Armour shows up with a percentage which I believe is percentage of body coverage (i.e. percent chance that the armour will absorb some of the damage). A gauntlet is 3%; a vambrace is 10%.
  • To-hit penalty: Gauntlet -15%, Vambrace -10%. To someone who's completed the armour-wearing quest, this is Gauntlet -15%, Vambrace -1%.

So, what am I missing? Is there some other effect, other than a nifty message when you put it on and take it off? (I thought it might, for example, increase damage from Fists--but it doesn't.) Right now, it seems you pay a large to-hit penalty for very little benefit. --Dragon 08:12, 24 September 2006 (BST)

Could simply be that some armors are superior to others? macksting 19:31, 25 September 2006 (BST)
I wonder if there's a combined benefit of wearing a complete suit of armour. Jock McStrapp only affects the leather armours. Gaunts are metal. Perhaps the leather gloves are the inferior version of the armour. Syagrius 19:33, 25 September 2006 (BST)
I suppose there'd be a metal armor quest at some point. macksting 21:43, 26 September 2006 (BST)
Can't you wear two vambraces and two gauntlets at the same time? I can't remember, but if that's the case then they needn't be comparable. vloodo 06:35, 3 November 2006 (GMT)
Yes, I do all the time. I would assume that armour wears out with abuse (absorbing damage) and that gauntlets (being metal) would last longer than gloves. Syagrius 15:01, 3 November 2006 (GMT)

Royal Mint: New Math?

The Royal Mint claims to take a 5% cut when melting Gold Pieces into Bits of Gold.

You lose 2 Gold Pieces.
You gain a Bit of Gold.

Did they miss a zero somewhere? (I noticed this when they shorted me by 1 bit of gold on a slightly larger conversion) 01:25, 21 September 2006 (BST)

They round up. So? --Dragon 08:40, 22 September 2006 (BST)

A New Realm of Caffeine

This was posted to the tips page a week or so ago:

Just entered a new level of Caffine because I've had 100 cups of coffee? this is new and I'm lovin it.
Experamenting.. It looks like your cafine tolerance restes after 100 cups and you are able
to tell the difference between decaf and regular!

So what does this mean? Do someone cop to this? In drinking so much coffee, does it really roll over? And do you rebuild resistance? Are you vulnerable to caffeine crash? Is it like that one episode of Futurama? -- X-Himy 04:24, 20 September 2006 (BST)

It'd also be good to know just how much detoxing a Clinic Invite would get you afterward. Back to 0, or back to 100? Also, it might be useful for the market/dump bots to be able to discern the types of coffee. Random4518 06:07, 20 September 2006 (BST)
As far as I know, you could always tell the difference between decaf and regular. Decaf has no effect, ever. The bots can't tell the difference, but if you look at the relative prices, they will usually make it clear. Droll 14:42, 20 September 2006 (BST)
Yeah, but it sort of sounds as if the coffee will appear differently in the inventory list. But I am more intrigued by this new realm of caffeine. I might have to try this is a day or two, but right now I fear that a caffeine crash will keep me from feeding my baby. -- X-Himy 14:49, 20 September 2006 (BST)
You lose a Mug of Coffee.
You gain an Empty Mug.
You feel a bit better. Damn caffeine tolerance.
100 cups of coffee. You enter a state of perfect caffination.

This game me +100AP, and my Inventory now has Mug of Coffee (proper) and Mug of Coffee (decaf) MrFoo 15:24, 20 September 2006 (BST)

That's brilliant! Thanks Foo. Have you ever been to Betty Fjnord's and had your tolerance reset? Or was this 100 since your reset? Do you still receive ap from the coffee now? Did you crash? Is there a chance for crashing? Sorry for all the questions, but I am hoping for some Futurama scenes!
I've been to Betty Fnord's a couple of times now. I think this was 100 since my last detox. I've onyl drunk one more cup of coffee since hitting 100, and it gave me 30AP. MrFoo 15:55, 20 September 2006 (BST)
I posted about this on the caffeine page a few days ago. I've been drinking coffe (proper) since then and my tolerance seems to have returned (but i haven't had enough to take it back down to 0AP effect). I have never had a caffine crash from coffee. I have never been to the Fnord clinic either- donkey
So I wonder what happens if you drink *another* 100 mugs? Droll 20:23, 20 September 2006 (BST)
Friggin' handy! I've never had a crash, but I've gotten to a point where only the pure bean would do anything for me, and even then very little. I've also detoxed once, so at the moment, coffee has an effect on me. This might be something to persue at some point. macksting 20:06, 22 September 2006 (BST)
Addendum: See, it's one thing to know you can tell the difference between one mug and another. That's great. But o the satisfaction of slaying monsters and seeing "You gain a Mug of Coffee (proper)." It feels like coming home. macksting 19:49, 4 October 2006 (BST)
i tried drink another 100. but it did nothing. but man did that ap help when i was going to kill bling wraiths bobtheslayer 30 oct 2006 16:22 (pst)

On attempting to don two codpieces

There's intimations of virility, and then there's just being daft.

I was amused Hbookbinder 01:56, 20 September 2006 (BST)

Ninja Damage

Well, you know me... always in the forest lookin' for ninjas and treemen (and those most damnable tree rats, how I hates them), well I found something odd. Normally, when I align a ninja to earth and hit it with my Flamin' Punch I do 40 points of damage to Mr. take your sword away. That would be 10 for the punch, doubled for his alignment to the weapon, doubled for my alignment to him. This is what happened to my poor ninja today:

You attack the Ninja.
You cause 80 points of damage, and receive 800 experience.
The Ninja causes 10 points of damage.

Now I know I have a rabbit foot on, but I've not rubbed it. And I know I have some bunny ears on, cause I'm cute like that. And I'm standin' on a pond in my magic boots cause I can walk on water. And no, I don't have one of those wonderful black things to make me say ARRRGH! but... what gives (and will it keep on givin?) Copperisblue 14:25, 19 September 2006 (BST)

Aye, I have noticed this as well, wailing on tars in the Great Desert. Aligned, or unaligned, martial arts damage is much greater than one would expect, changes from hit to hit, and usually increases, though I didn't notice a regular progression. I plan to more experimentation later. -- X-Himy 16:02, 19 September 2006 (BST)
I've noticed that occasionally, I get double or even quadruple damage when fighting Ninja and Tortoises (that's above the standard bonuses for alignment and using an aligned attack). Fortunately, I've never seen it happen in reverse. -- Thog 14:54, 19 September 2006 (BST)
Today I noticed the same when hitting an weakly aligned Living Tar. I hit him (using the correctly aligned martial arts blow) for 80, but should only have hit him for 40. I just smiled and kept on hitting him... TerrorRemedy
New class: Monk? macksting 20:02, 22 September 2006 (BST)
Is this right because it means we don't have to bother buying aligned swords now YFM
No further indications. It's possible that ninja are just highly susceptible to kung fu, which seems consistent with the movies I've seen on the matter.
It's not just ninja, I had a similar "problem" with Tars in the Great Desert a day or two ago. Why would tar be extra susceptible to martial arts? Anyone know any movies that could give us an answer? -Scrumbucket 03:15, 5 October 2006 (BST)
It applies to all monsters. As near as I can tell, what happens is that when you attack a monster weak to your alignment with a martial art of your alignment, the attack's damage is doubled again, generally to a total of 80. Martial arts of other alignments and the Poke of Death seem unaffected. Random4518 03:46, 5 October 2006 (BST)
its not just martial arts i used my fire bow 10*10 on a weakly alinged sir tim and did 800 damage instead of 400... yes 800 damage!!!! this was usefull an bling wraiths till it broke. :(

Flying Healer Stations?

Anyone know how the flying healer stations work in Oz? I click 'Full Heal', it costs me 10 AP (and presumably 100gold), and says "You wait for the healer to arrive.". That was around 8 this morning. I've logged on again now, and nothing's changed. Trying 'Full Heal' again, it costs me 10 AP again, and again I get nothing but the message. How long should I wait for healing? Does it ever turn up, or is it just an AP sink? --Boojum 12:45, 15 September 2006 (BST)

Maybe there needs to be an on-call player standing on another station? It kinda sounds like it was made for THOFD. Random4518 14:03, 15 September 2006 (BST)
If that's the case, it's pretty worthless. It's quicker and more reliable to use a Dragon Stone, even at 50AP. --Sam 19:26, 15 September 2006 (BST)
Or, one imagines, a Summon Stone and an actual Flying Healer. macksting 20:22, 15 September 2006 (BST)
Someone want to Summon Baby Sophia to a flying healing station? Then you'll get your THOFD.
It appears to be random whether there's a Healer there or not. Darksatanic 19:09, 16 September 2006 (BST)
I second Darksatanic's observation. I've been using one for a while now and it's never cost me more than 20AP for a full heal. There seems to be around a 30-50% chance of getting a waiting message, from my experience. Nuru nuru 14:01, 19 September 2006 (JST)
Okay, maybe I was unlucky, since I tried twice in a row and failed to get anything either time. Anyway, I'm dead now and beyond healing for the next couple of days :-( Boojum 15:05, 20 September 2006 (BST)
Good luck with that condition. macksting 20:00, 22 September 2006 (BST)

Team Nobody?

Your Emerald Team Ring (Jester Valley Alliance) * has worn out.
You take off an Emerald Team Ring (Jester Valley Alliance) *.
You lose an Emerald Team Ring (Jester Valley Alliance) *.

Is that supposed to happen? Stevie-O 01:02, 15 September 2006 (BST)

Happened to us in Team Snark with our fire elemental ring just recently. As both are recent, I might just ask if this is a bug... macksting 02:17, 15 September 2006 (BST)
Team Fire Dragon just lost their Fire and Earth elemental rings within the last couple of days as well. Syagrius 02:31, 15 September 2006 (BST)
Happened to me too. About a week ago. TerrorRemedy
Wait, you're JVA too... maybe the game has it out for teams JVA and Fire Dragon ? Stevie-O 04:45, 15 September 2006 (BST)
Snark hasn't fared well, arguably. macksting 20:22, 15 September 2006 (BST)
Hmm, seems all teams have been suffering from this. Maybe the Great Lords feels that we have become too powerful and fear a Coup d'état?  ;) TerrorRemedy

Number Under Fashion

Theres a 7' under my fashion, yet my other character has a 1'. What are they for, and I hope 7 is good. --Qazxcv 03:20, 12 September 2006 (BST)

  • Tell us what the combo is because my fiRefly trainers have a 5* rating and I want to be in fashion more

--YFM 08:56, 12 September 2006 (BST)

    • I had a fashion rating of 12 with a Glowing Sun Stone Bling and a Bull Whip, then increased it to 16 by equipping 2 more bling. I'm not sure how that happened, since the bling only added 1 each to my rating before re-equipping the bull whip. Unstenk 14:46, 12 September 2006 (BST)
      • 10+(3*2)=16. Your weakest fashion type is doubled. Random4518 20:56, 12 September 2006 (BST)
Sitting at 51 right now :) Syagrius 16:56, 12 September 2006 (BST)
Keerist, bet you're not going to tell us how you pulled that off, are you?
These seem to be additive properties of items towards a fashion goal. I'm sitting at 11 right now, with some bling, a fur coat, and a pair of shades all adding up to pimp. macksting 19:02, 12 September 2006 (BST)
I'm guessing the highest possible amount of fasion would involve 10 Bling Blings and a complete set of armor. (And a guard helmet, if possible.) Random4518 20:56, 12 September 2006 (BST)
I'll share - I'm not that greedy. :) 1 Bling Bling, 1 Pair of Fishnets, 1 Healing Bling, 2 Mercury Bling , Moon Stone Bling, 1 Pair of Shades, 1 Fur Coat, 1 Wedding Ring (doesn't seem to have an effect), and 2 Watch Blings. Current Fashion - Kinky-Pimp. Syagrius 16:03, 13 September 2006 (BST)
OI! Equip a bull whip, boy, and tell me what happens! macksting 19:07, 13 September 2006 (BST)
Forgot to mention - that's with a bull whip in hand ;) Syagrius 02:57, 16 September 2006 (BST)
108.  :) --Dragon 06:40, 21 October 2006 (BST)

Treemen not giving Ancient Wood?

Am I just very unlucky? The last two treemen I've killed haven't had any ancient wood at all. It's very annoying as I'm trying to collect it for a caravel. It's usually taking a day's worth of AP to track down and kill the blighters so it's particularly annoying. Platypus 22:32, 10 September 2006 (BST)

When I was collecting Ancient Wood for my speedboat (way more worth it than a caravel in my personal opinion, especially as a first time boat) it happened to me on occasion. With tars too. Total pain in the ass, but it happens. Ade 23:35, 10 September 2006 (BST)
Probably especially irritating to those of us who want it for charcoal. Some crafts go through that stuff like it was tissue paper.
I sympathize. I'm kinda glad I got my caravel before the worst of the treeman blight hit. macksting 19:20, 11 September 2006 (BST)

Nice article :-) By the way, am I mistaking, or are the Treemen no longer traceable by wielding a Tarrot Deck? Greetings, Conzy 11:34, 28 September 2006 (BST)

I can't find the reference, but it was mentioned that the Tarot Deck's been changed - when no creatures of a given kind exist, they won't show up in the deck. Now there's nothing that says the creature won't spawn the next time you move, but at the moment you checked, there were probably no treemen -- Thog 14:23, 28 September 2006 (BST)
Ok, thanks for the explanation! I hope a great number respawns soon :-) -- Conzy 15:08, 28 September 2006 (BST)
Yep, according to the Tarot Deck, there are Treemen again. Thanks Thog! Conzy 15:37, 28 September 2006 (BST)

Mining Table Outdated!

We're all going to have to pitch in to fix the Mining Table, I suspect. First off, there's a new kind of minable terrain, the Outback Outcrop. I only mined at it once, but it gave opportunity to throw my two cents in and make a spot on the table.
Likewise, my ordinary Outcrop is yielding Bits of Gold as well as Gold Ore, and it's yielding far, far, far too much bronze. We need somebody who's good with tables, I suspect.
Remember, the reward for working on this particular project is that you'll end up with reliable information on ore gathering, which we all must do from time to time; and you'll also get ore, which kicks butt. Doc Mackie 19:41, 10 September 2006 (BST)

Thank you, Solune. Been busy, or I'd be contributing to the Outcrop possibilities. Would it be sensible to start a new table, to see how the numbers stack up with the new possibility? macksting 19:05, 12 September 2006 (BST)
I just did some mining on an outcrop. I would be happy to contribute the numbers to the statistics. I think we should start a new table too. The probabilities have probably changed given that we are now getting Bits of Gold. We can move the old tables to another page? I'll do that when I have time. -- LittleHamster 07:43, 15 September 2006 (BST)
As the KOT hasn't been absurdly busy lately, I'll probably begin mining an outcrop tomorrow and contributing my own numbers to a new table; either one of your creation, or one of my copy-paste skillz. We should also apply a date tag to the inception of the table, right at the top, yes? macksting 20:21, 15 September 2006 (BST)
FINALLY... FOUND... my BLOOMING... MINE. Table being updated. macksting 20:17, 18 September 2006 (BST)


Where does somebody contract this particular disease? I've never had an ounce of fashion in my life, yet now it's looking oddly attractive to me. Where's everybody getting it? Doc Mackie 20:12, 8 September 2006 (BST)

From here. Random4518 04:50, 9 September 2006 (BST)

Some numbers have appeared under the fashion statements. I'm currently the highest of my sight area with 12* Pimp-Clobber --Solune 19:51, 11 September 2006 (BST)

Each item now carries a point. Please update Fashion table with scores. TerrorRemedy

Sorry but it's more complicated than that. some items give more points if you have already another fashion--Solune 20:28, 11 September 2006 (BST)

A Call-Out To The Farmers

I tried looking up some info on the Cultivation page and found that, while there is a general consensus that fields generate about 1 crop every 3 hours, the page is surprisingly devoid of information as to *how many* crops a field will generate.

Do any of you farmers out there have any idea of how many crops a planted field normally produces? Stevie-O 04:15, 8 September 2006 (BST)

Usually Im not that patient to wait till the end, or if it is plums I ussually harvest them frequently (just in case), But im sure that field lasts at least for 3 days (giving 24 pieces of crop) it might be a little more though. -- 06:19, 8 September 2006 (BST)
While draining a field of plums, I harvested it 4 times, for 5, 8, 8, and 5 plums (26 total). PotatoEngineer 06:24, 8 September 2006 (BST)
I got 25 out of a field of plums. JohnnyRogers 07:49, 8 September 2006
Hm this time i got 21 Sunflowers.

What's with the Phoenix feathers ?

One month ago I thought that they were so easy to get that I wouldn't have sold them for more than 10 GP. And now not only are they at 200 GP but there are people to buy them. Also one month ago I couldn't find arrows for less than 150 GP, and now I can make mine for 10 GP, and I even bought some for 3. Is there some secret way to find arrows ?--Solune 13:03, 7 September 2006 (BST)

I won't buy any Phoenix Feathers myself, but you can sell anything in the markets. As for arrows, I found that with a to-hit of 90% with bows, it seems that the arrow drop rate (from monsters) outpace the natural depletion. You end up with more and more arrows in your inventory. Time to get that Merz Bow out! -- LittleHamster 13:04, 7 September 2006 (BST)
Economics. Prices fluctuate over time. Phoenix feathers used to be more scarce, and would go for about 1000gp. Then a bunch of people got some and decided to undercut each other (I still have some sitting at the market in the 400-500gp range). Then people realized they weren't making any money, so the price seems to have stabilized around 200gp for the moment. As for arrows, there are relatively few monsters I'll bother to use a bow on (melee weapons are more efficient in terms of damage per AP), so I managed to accumulate a lot. I'd still consider 3-10gp quite cheap, though. (Often there are "one-time" deals at the markets, when people put up an item far below the going rate. Arrows are something even the newest Cities players can make, so someone might have just wanted a few GP....) --Dragon 17:06, 7 September 2006 (BST)
As I recall, most prices aren't prone to so much fluctuation. Does that make Phoenix Feathers a high-risk item? macksting 03:54, 8 September 2006 (BST)
As a matter of fact, I was considering sending out poorly-written messages along the lines of "This 0ne's about to make a run for it--invest in PH.FTHR 2day!" Just have to figure out that whole "broadcast palantir" trick, and I'm set...  ;) --Dragon 04:31, 8 September 2006 (BST)
OK. Message sent. :) Elseware 10:08, 8 September 2006 (BST)
Sigh... I was just getting used to SPAM in my email, now I get SPAM via Palantir?! j/k. I looked and I've only got 36 PH.FTHR stocks, going to have to invest in some more!Skold 14:40, 8 September 2006 (BST)
Brilliant! So that's where it came from. Seems like the sort of thing that should appear as an article in the next Citizen, too. (I do look forward to those.) macksting 19:36, 8 September 2006 (BST)

Wow! Armour

A question to all the Fire Dukes who've also completed the Bomb Squad. Any of you seeing 70% on Wands with a base to-hit of 130%. I'm wondering if it's just me, or does it affect everyone. I've submit it as a New Bug as I can't see how this could happen. But maybe someone here can enlighten me. -- LittleHamster 08:09, 7 September 2006 (BST)

Mystery solved. I didn't noticed any thing from the other weapons as they are all over 90% and I'm not sure how the new to-hit bonus works yet. Since I've removed the non-bug from the Bugs page, here's the responses:

I still have 91%. Do you only have this with wands, or all weapons? Are you trying to align an unusual monster? Random4518 08:41, 7 September 2006 (BST)
Also, are you wearing any kind of armour? Darksatanic 08:55, 7 September 2006 (BST)
Yes, armour reduces to-hit. Please put the exact percentage reduction here if it isn't there already. (I also filed a bug when my to-hit mysteriously dropped, but erased it quickly...) --Dragon 17:09, 7 September 2006 (BST)

Anybody been south of Oz?

In case nobody was aware, there's a beach here in Oz 22E 290S, accessible from a meadow adjacent to the road. I've no earthly idea where it goes, and am quite curious. Has anybody explored the oceans south of Oz? I'd do so myself, but I'm rather busy with the Order lately. (New monsters = new tubthumping.) macksting 20:14, 6 September 2006 (BST)

I've been just a couple squares south--enough to know that the world extends beyond 300S. I haven't done any real exploring, though. A few of the Totems are on islands (sneaky Elseware!), but those are all above 300S. --Dragon 01:55, 7 September 2006 (BST)
<elseware> ps. theres nothing outside the oz box of 0,-300 to 99,-200
<elseware> I'll announce when past the edges is relevant
--Dragon 03:56, 7 September 2006 (BST)

Oz: Looking to break through the Andies?

My friend and I are exploring the inner regions of Oz. It's cost us a hell of a lot of healing potions (damn feral cats, zodiac monsters and Grue..), some strife (The Feral Cat attacks you 3 times. You die.), but we've finally made some headway. As far as I know, we're the first to find an opening in the Andies. But it's quite possible we're not.

The enterance to the inner regions of Oz, the break in the Andies, is so far (known to us, anyway, I'm sure more exist somewhere in the range) a "Thick Jungle" square. Upon coming to a thick jungle square, you do not have the option to pass through it, like a regular jungle or a forest. Instead it acts like a mountain range in itself, or an Outback Outcrop.

However, equipping a fire elemental weapon (so far tested with a fire knife, maybe fire sword would produce a cheaper cost?), you get the option to clear a path. To an air character it cost 100 AP, and yielded 3 pieces of wood. However more hacking my be required, because of a total AP kill we are unable to verify.

Has anyone else experienced Thick Jungles? Tips? Tricks? Sharing of knowledge? Ade2:27, August 29, 2006

Hmm, maybe a deforest spell like the Kelley spell would be most efficient here?TerrorRemedy,August 30, 2006
There's been some discussion on the subject here. --Dithat 02:40, 30 August 2006 (BST)
Found it mere seconds ago. Drat. --Ade 02:57, 30 August 2006 (BST)

Chickens and Eggs

I asked this on Requests for Information, but that page doesn't get much traffic.

Do chickens and wheat work like Pigs and Acorns? (I feed the chicken wheat, then kill it to get an egg) Or is it like Cows and a bucket? (Feed the chicken enough wheat and you get an egg back without killing it.) Also I notice that the admonishment on Harvey's farm about killing his animals is gone, does that mean it's okay to sacrifice a chicken to get an egg (if that's required). Hendsch 17:12, 29 August 2006 (BST)

Chickens and Wheat are similar to Pigs and Acorns - feed the chicken wheat, then kill it. You should only be able to feed the chicken once.TerrorRemedy

I've killed lots of Harvey's sheep when I was collecting wool. Harvey doesn't seem to mind. -- LittleHamster 21:31, 29 August 2006 (BST)

More on the Vaults

While talking with Dragon, I learned that nobody yet seems to know what happens if you use a Vault Talisman to get to the vaults, then open one with a Vault Permit. Having both of those things, I decided to give it a shot. This is what I found:

  1. Walking to Vault A1 gave me an out-of-body experience -- I saw the Astral Plane, but my body was back in Vault A1.
  2. I used my permit to open a vault at lot A2, and it created a square called "s Vault" that didn't let me do much of anything.

Stevie-O 07:29, 26 August 2006 (BST)

91% Chance to hit?

I thought the upper limit was 90%? I now have a cruel blade that does 91%. What did I do to deserve this?

See Current_events#Change_in_chance_to_hit.3F. Random4518 05:01, 26 August 2006 (BST)

High Plateau

Hi. There´s any know passage over the High Plateau in the west side of the frozen north? Or any item i can use to pass over them? I have a treasure map that point inside a area sorrounded by these High Plateaus, but dont find a way to reach it (inside this mountain ring sens to be a prehistoric forest)--ancev 13:46, 25 August 2006 (BST)

Antidotes in the Deep South?

Has anyone found either anyplace selling antidotes or anything that drops them down in Oz? I'm wandering around poisoned after a run in with some Zodiac monsters, and I can't find a cure for the life of me. No bats (they all seem to have been eaten by the grues) and the Healers don't seem to be able to cure it. -- Elan 02:08, 25 August 2006 (BST)

I have some, and I really need some money, or any shiny artifacts you could have. I'm currently in Atlantish--Solune 02:19, 25 August 2006 (BST)
Sounds good - check your palantir. That said, the original question stands - is there any naturally occuring antidote south of the border? If not, someone with a Stall Permit might want to stock up and set up shop down here... -- Elan 05:17, 25 August 2006 (BST)

Royal Northern Research Library leads to the Ancient Castle

While I was dropping off Kirk's Eggs at the Royal Northern Research Centre, I found that the Research Centre has gained a nice new Library [4]. You need to be wearing a scarf to get access so that you can read the books (10AP) which wasn't a big problem as I've been tramping all over the North and now have quite a few of the things. However, I now need an astrolabe to get to more books and I've never seen one. Anyone else ever seen an astrolabe or know where they can be found? Bay 11:49, 23 August 2006 (BST)

It's in build.xml. Make from 40 bronze, 5 gold, and 5 silver. (5 AP earth). Hmmm, I have the raw materials and seem unable to make it. Perhaps I need to read one of the first set of books first? Hendsch 13:13, 23 August 2006 (BST)
Thanks, after a bit of quick walking to get some wood, I was able to make the astrolabe. I suspect that you are correct and that you can only make one once you have read the books. Once I've got some APs again, I'll have to try the next set of books. Bay 13:34, 23 August 2006 (BST)

I've now made my astrolabe and it gave me directions to the Ancient Castle. Once I followed the castle, I actually got the option to go in (1AP) unlike other people. Once inside I saw


Now, I'm out of APs again. Bay 20:23, 23 August 2006 (BST)

I wonder what the new profession will be??? We know of fighters and spell-casters. Everybody can already be a healer (doctor) and get some thieving abilities. Very exciting! Droll 20:59, 23 August 2006 (BST)

Elseware or somebody made reference to a form or support character. Reduced AP for creating items? The ability to be a walking trading post? Increased healing efficiency when treating others? Healing spells, equivalent to Wizard spells but better? macksting 19:17, 24 August 2006 (BST)
How about Bartender? Or perhaps cobbler of fine leather goods. Hendsch 19:26, 24 August 2006 (BST)
That would be more in the sprit of cities indeed. Or professional sandwich maker--Solune 20:19, 24 August 2006 (BST)
We already have a professional sandwich maker. See The Cucumber Sandwich Factory, located just east of the 'King's Road. Billz8 01:27, 25 August 2006 (BST)

I don't know about the profession yet but I think I'm in a game of Paranoia in this Castle. So how about Professional Test Dummy as a profession? I'm currently trying to map out the undercroft of the castle and it's interesting.

Here is a roof shot


and a shot of the basement


Bay 23:44, 24 August 2006 (BST)

Now see Careers and Quests for more info on this. Vashka 08:48, 26 August 2006 (BST)


Just got a vault talisman in Oz at a cost of 10000 gp. Broke it and it took me to the vaults


Can't figure out what there is to do here though. Anyone know?


From what has been said on IRC in the last day or two, I was under the impression that the Vaults weren't finished, and you shouldn't have been able to get into them. I think the talismans probbaly shouldn't have been on sale just yet. MrFoo 11:27, 21 August 2006 (BST)
Oh :(. Can I have my 10k back then please....... Timekeeper
I bought one from a Wizard for 2000gp. I think I'll wait until I use it now... - CornMaster 16:29, 22 August 2006 (BST)
Hah, got one off an Origami Ogre... not used it, due to not knowing what the risks were, and now I'm so glad I didn't :) --Snarfer 16:58, 22 August 2006 (BST)

A Conversation Between The Great Lords

Preserved for posterity:

<darksatanic> $ svn diff | wc -l
<darksatanic> 954
<darksatanic> Dammit.
<cjg> ...
<darksatanic> He's doing it again. :)
<cjg> If people wanted a stable game they would play...
<cjg> er...
<darksatanic> You're writing stuff faster than I can check it into svn, Chris.
<cjg> well any game other than this one. 19:56, 19 August 2006 (BST)

I Have Issues

And yes, they are those kinds of issues. They're under "meta," see? --Dragon 08:59, 19 August 2006 (BST)

What on earth is that?! macksting 01:54, 20 August 2006 (BST)
I have issues, you know... (Elseware says they do have a use, but I don't know what it is, and I'm pretty sure no one else has them so far...) --Dragon 02:19, 20 August 2006 (BST)
Maybe they're useful if you neeze. macksting 21:27, 20 August 2006 (BST)


What exactly consitutes a non-knightly career? Where can players apprentice (if you will) in another career?

You can become a wizard. I presume that you can do so in Oz (the southern continent). Not sure how yet. I'm there, and I got a Magic Display Spell as a monster drop. I select it and get the message "Only a wizard can cast spells." --Dragon 08:32, 19 August 2006 (BST)
Oh man.
What really sucks is that now I'd have to be a Wizard Illuminus of the Order of Tubthumping. macksting 01:55, 20 August 2006 (BST)

FOUND IT. Off the northwest shore of Oz is the Bleak Island (the message just said "The Island," but the terrain says Bleak Island). Maps don't work past 200S, but here's the north half of the island:


The island takes a ton of AP. 15 base AP to walk on--even with T&S, Winged Boots, and a Walking Stick that's still 5AP/move--and is stocked with depressing monsters like Morrisseys and Downers. At the center of the island (the lower "stone" square on the map, at 10E 207S) is the tower of the wizard, Tommy (?!). Here you can register as a wizard. (Note: I haven't done this yet, because 1) it takes away the damage multiplier you get from being a Knight, which I'm currently enjoying using on the Oz wildlife, and 2) it takes two days of Real Time.) --Dragon 08:20, 20 August 2006 (BST)

If it's possible, this island is a major candidate for summoning parties. I have a speedboat and the means to get there, but I'd have to lose my hat if you were to try to summon me. I think I'll tubthump somebody as soon as is feasible, which should probably leave me in hat-stealable condition. (I refuse to burn it.)
That said, Tommy is a Pin-Ball Wizard, so our magic might not be as great as we'd like it to be. macksting 21:01, 20 August 2006 (BST)
It's alot to ask, but someone should see if after you register as a wizard and reregister as a knight, do you get to keep casting ability? Cause it's a skill you learn like martial arts? Or does it go away as well? -Stien

When you become a knight again, you regain all your old abilities, but you can only be a wizard OR a knight at any time and changing costs a heap of AP (2 days). Our plan A was to make you pick, but we figure this is a fair compromise. You are never trapped in a career, but changing is something you will have to consider very carefully. There is a 3rd career on the way, very different - a "support" class, if you will. The first step to finding it is in the library in b&oumlaut;gn&oumlaut;r. Wizards do not currently lose martial arts skills or tohit % but that may change. Dunno yet. They are currently much weaker, but quite fun to experiment with (I hope). Once you get level 2 combat magic they will be pretty f-cking hard. In summary - knights will never be able to cast spells. We intend spells to be cool enough to make up for the loss of damage. 11:31, 21 August 2006 (BST)

Er, "library in Bognor"? Is this something hidden, has it not been implemented yet, or was this a typo? -- Thog 20:51, 22 August 2006 (BST)

Im trying to register to be a wizard but it says "Actually, before I register you, I'd love a XXXX.". Now my dirty mind suggests one thing but my coding mind suggests it may be an item that hasnt yet been programmed. Mr Foo is an apprentice but theres no option to give Tommy anything.... Help, it took loads of AP to get to the Tower. Timekeeper 20:51, 21 August 2006 (BST)

He wants a XXXX.. give him a XXXX... MrFoo 20:57, 21 August 2006 (BST)
Ahhh. Well I would if I had one. I presume its a can of Lager, which I dont have. Im not having much luck here down under... Timekeeper 21:31, 21 August 2006 (BST)
A XXXX is a XXXX. A Can of Lager is a Can of Lager... Go find a XXXX. Or part of one, to make a whole one. MrFoo 21:42, 21 August 2006 (BST)
Do you mean find a X and a X and a X and a X and link them together?--Solune 22:24, 21 August 2006 (BST)
Ok. Thanks Mr Foo. Will go in search of some X's. I dont think the Morriseys have any as I have killed tons of those and not got a single one and if I get called Mr Shankly one more time ill go insane, its back to the mainland for me. Timekeeper 08:41, 22 August 2006 (BST)


Here are a few stats I got using the gold peices table:

Total gp: 30131369
GP controlled by richest 10% of players: 19305138 (64%)
GP controlled by poorest 10% of players: 7590 (0.025%)
Richest player: (hotchpotch) 1743905 (5.79%)
Top 10 richest players: 8282587 (27.5%)
Average net worth: about 45174 gp
Median net worth: 9640 gp

It would be interesting to see how these totals change over time... :) Possible inflation?

Also, it seems that the four cities suffers from some pretty serious economic disparities :) Where is our social safety net!

Gruther4 20:59, 16 August 2006 (BST)

Interesting! However, gold pieces owned is only one part of net worth. The stuff you own is worth something, too. I suspect someone like Droll or e.bstan could readily convert their stuff (or even just claim their gold at the markets) to take over the GP lead if they wanted to, even though they currently aren't in the top 10. Hendsch 22:12, 16 August 2006 (BST)

You know what I think would be interesting? If cities had a closed monetary system. At the moment, I think, gold magically appears on monsters and at stores, and magically disappears with the golden gun, market fees, swimming school, etc. It would be really interesting if there was a fixed amount of gold (say 50 million), and it all got recycled. Golden gun money could go to a pool that monsters would draw from when they are spawned. The money paid to shops would go into a pool to pay for things that they buy (and perhaps prices would change to reflect scarcity or abundance of money in shops). Market fees, swim school, gold on players who stop playing, etc could be collected by the 'king to pay for knight rewards, etc. We would really begin to see some interesting economics then, I think. Gruther4 17:02, 17 August 2006 (BST)

Except that of 6000 registered users, only about 650 are active. So money would leach that way amongst others.

Also it'd be a huge rewrite. days and days of work. And all that it would mean is that sometimes there was no gold available from monsters and sometimes shops could not sell anything. Nice idea, but not right for cities. Elseware 18:03, 17 August 2006 (BST)

The Knightly Order of Tubthumping's Charity Handouts and the City Dump may be, in a sense, examples of what you're looking for. Everything there comes from donations from players, and anything may be taken by the players. It's not a closed system, in that the items come from the limitless supply of monster loot. However, all activity comes from the players, and the surplus or lack of items is dictated by them alone. -- Sertularian 18:28, 17 August 2006 (BST)
Personally, I just like knowing how I measure up. At 200,000 GP on hand, which is far too much, I stack up pretty darn well. What were you saying about disparity, by the way? Do you mean average income by element? If so, could we see stats on that? macksting 23:37, 17 August 2006 (BST)
Oh, by disparity I meant that the difference between the "rich" and the "poor" is, well, staggering. But this is probably mostly due to the use of golden guns. There is an incentive, if you aren't hoarding money, to stay in the sub-2000 gold area (I remember doing this while dragon-hunting to become an earl). So there are a lot of really rich hoarders and really poor spenders. I don't know how gold compares between elements, and that might be an interesting thing to compare... although I think it would have more to do with the attitudes of the players than by their income potential. Gruther4 20:28, 20 August 2006 (BST)

Oh, I agree that it would be way too much work for a mostly academic reward, but it is interesting to think about. What is also interesting, though, is how stable prices seem to be. I've been playing now for about 6 or 8 months, and spent a lot of that time watching the prices of commodities like beans and cucumbers. They flucuate, but not as much as you would think they might. We haven't had the situation where money is either really scarce or really abundant yet. Of course, some of the stability in prices might be because a lot of things are reasonably fixed (relative value of ap/gold, prices in shops, etc).

You could say that cities is comparable to the old gold standard monetary system, where the currency could actually be converted into something useful. The "government" prints money, and gives it to monsters, and we take it from them, trade it amongst ourselves, and eventually covert it to something usefull, like stuff in shops or golden gun damage. Gruther4 20:28, 20 August 2006 (BST)

Because it was mentioned, statistics on who has how much gold...

Category Count Minimum 3rd Quartile Median 1st Quartile Maximum Mean Std. Dev Variance Skewness Kurtosis
All active characters 722 1 1475.25 8166 38723.5 2467780 50773.9 163323.3 2.6675E+10 8.9362 107.2616
Air characters 156 1 1313 8973.5 41258.75 522577 40720.9 84249.8 7.0980E+09 3.7165 18.1579
Earth characters 175 2 765.5 7003 39129 762254 44871.2 97123.3 9.4329E+09 4.0129 23.3777
Fire characters 238 7 2244 9094 38723.5 2467780 70526.6 244709.4 5.9883E+10 7.0780 59.8635
Water characters 153 4 1786 8717 26734 1075580 37049.2 117304.2 1.3760E+10 7.0313 56.7048
No career 175 1 124 292 1895 692331 18716.3 82426.6 6.7941E+09 5.7798 38.5324
Career: Knight 534 6 4588.75 15172 49418.5 2467780 61020.0 182175.1 3.3188E+10 8.3932 91.3535
- Sir 45 7 1068 4294 7187 244533 14363.3 42133.5 1.7752E+09 4.5426 23.0488
- Baron 45 67 2381 4437 8935 1075580 31015.2 157680.9 2.4863E+10 6.4562 42.7977
- Earl 114 6 3455.25 8472.5 21770.5 684306 23552.6 69535.0 4.8351E+09 7.9803 73.1669
- Duke 330 29 9416.75 32820.5 79082.5 2467780 84417.1 216677.3 4.6949E+10 7.3672 68.9445
Career: Wizard 13 125 2951 10501 52358 289869 61441.6 92136.9 8.4892E+09 1.4834 3.6979
- Apprentice 13 125 2951 10501 52358 289869 61441.6 92136.9 8.4892E+09 1.4834 3.6979
Not a doctor 233 1 155 703 4586 692331 20657.9 77642.1 6.0283E+09 5.5282 37.4223
Doctor 489 6 5116 17620 52746 2467780 65123.7 189404.3 3.5874E+10 8.0907 84.6731

This is based on data from around 9:30 on 5/10/2006. Having set this up in Excel now, I can produce these sorts of statistics on various kinds of data if folk are interested. :-) Stelio 11:16, 5 October 2006 (BST)

Where's Waynestock?

I'm not terribly busy right now, and I am under the impression there's something of a party going on. I don't suppose somebody could direct me to it? I respond well to palantir or conversation post. macksting 19:45, 26 September 2006 (BST)

In the same place as woodstock: 8E 9N see current_events#woodstock --Solune 19:53, 26 September 2006 (BST)
Actually, it is 9E 8N. Droll 20:21, 26 September 2006 (BST)
I second that; it's 9E, 8N. Luckily, you should be able to see it from the previously listed coordinates anyway. macksting 21:43, 26 September 2006 (BST)
Everybody seems to think I'm not there anymore. I ran myself out of AP and am therefore blind, so could somebody search for my name, Duke macksting MD, on the list? macksting 19:11, 27 September 2006 (BST)
I don't see you. JohnnyRogers 19:22, 27 September 2006 (BST)
Not unless you're wearing a Smiler Mask. I'll summon you back, if you'll return the summon stone later. Random4518 19:23, 27 September 2006 (BST)
Or replace it, whichever. Much appreciated; half-completed trades. (I died. *blush*) macksting 19:27, 27 September 2006 (BST)
Addendum: Oh my, this'll do nice things to my recovery period, too, won't it? macksting 19:28, 27 September 2006 (BST)
Summoned. And yes, it probably will. It also occurs to me that this could halve the waiting time between class changes. Random4518 19:33, 27 September 2006 (BST)
Shweet. I'll have to consider that for the Knights if they want to change classes occasionally. Meanwhile, the stone seems to be intact, so I'll just hand it back when I can. (Don't hold your breath; it'll be a while.) macksting 19:45, 27 September 2006 (BST)
Addendum: Anybody who was trading with me? I'm back in it now. Just can't hand stuff back quite yet. macksting 19:58, 27 September 2006 (BST)

Removing Tauntaun from the Monster Bashing league?

Tauntauns could be someone's life saver; how about we discourage killing them by not giving an AP bonus for them? Or maybe have people lose kudos for killing multiple tauntauns? --Gaccm 03:33, 11 September 2006 (BST)

By that logic, the opposite should be true about zebras. There's nothing wrong with killing smelly, ugly monsters for sport.Gonzometro 23:04, 12 September 2006 (BST)
Why is this a concern? Take a glance at the league table, and you'll see they're not exactly endangered. Tarot Decks, tuned to hit either tauntauns or zebras, should be more than enough to get you warm before bad things happen. If this isn't enough, then you're probably waiting too long before warming yourself. If you don't have a tarot deck, then you'd best be using the wiki to pinpoint all the ice stations, because you can't count on the RNG producing a tauntaun when you need one, even if nobody is hunting them for the monster table. PotatoEngineer 09:37, 13 September 2006 (BST)

Summons wanted

Could someone summon darksatanic to somewhere (anywhere, really) north of the equator, please? I need to complete the fortune teller quest before starting the Totems quest. Thanks, Darksatanic 14:54, 10 September 2006 (BST)

Interesting. Do you need to see your fortune? 'Cause right now, that's impossible. Still, I'll summon yas right into the desert. macksting 19:34, 10 September 2006 (BST)
Yes, you do need to see your fortune before you can start the Totems quest. I trogged round every single bloody totem in Oz, and not one of them game me the option of reading the text on it. Maybe this'll spur me to fix the Fortune Teller bug. :)
Thanks for the summon, though. Darksatanic 02:27, 11 September 2006 (BST)
No problem, man. I was in the area and had a surplus of the stones. macksting 19:18, 11 September 2006 (BST)

Free Copies of Battlefield Earth

I went a little crazy up in the North, and to warm myself up at the North Pole, I decided to use my Iron Hubbard to generate quite a few copies of Battlefield Earth. I need to pawn these off and I'm not going to bother with the markets. So, for a limited time I'll be standing around the Park Bench near Windy City handing out free copies. The remainder will be shipped off to the marketplace. If you've been wondering about this (questionably) useful book, come by and grab one. In return, if someone can make me an offer for Speedboat plans... MrBlarney 08:54, 8 September 2006 (BST)

Like to come visit Oz? I'll summon for a copy. JohnnyRogers 09:15, 8 September 2006 (BST)
Ehh, I'll have to pass for now. Thanks for the offer, though. Once I'm ready, I'll be sure to Palantir you up, hehe. Copies of the book aren't too hard to come by for me so I can build more at a later time. I'll probably be ending my rest in Windy City tomorrow, so those still wanting a copy should come by. MrBlarney 04:50, 10 September 2006 (BST)
It's Over! I was able to get rid of most of the remaining copies at trading posts in each of the major cities. Thanks to all that came by to claim their book. MrBlarney 05:52, 11 September 2006 (BST)

Frostbite, time warps and scrags

Does frostbite do anything permanent any more? The recent crash set me back to just before I warmed up at an oil platform, and I set off on the ocean thinking I'd be okay until the next platform before noticing I'd lost all my oil and was still cold. Now my fingers and toes are black, and though I've made it to an oil platform again, I'm wondering if it's permanent. The wiki search still doesn't work! btw, there's a lot of lemmings, trolls and other land critters in the sea. Maybe there needs to be a check when the landscape changes? --Sam 18:02, 6 September 2006 (BST)

Body Retrieval

If anyone's near Cigar Island, I seem to have *cough* leant my corpse to a monster there. If anyone finds it, can they donate it? Cheers. Harlequinade

You might consider posting a request here, as well. -- Sertularian 16:49, 6 September 2006 (BST)

Anyone have a recent copy of build.xml?

I can't get a copy of the live version as I get a syntax error, so does anyone have a recent copy anywhere? Srboneidle2 18:48, 2 September 2006 (BST)

It has been reported as a bug. You just need to edit the file and remove the first two lines "Content-type: text/xml" --Solune 18:54, 2 September 2006 (BST)
Thanks! Firefox was refusing to download it at all. Got it with IE. Srboneidle2 19:01, 2 September 2006 (BST)
You can use [5] MrFoo 19:15, 2 September 2006 (BST)
If you are using firefox, right click on the page and select view page source. -- LittleHamster 21:31, 2 September 2006 (BST)

Phoenices max out at gen. 16

I tried about 10 times to get a pheonix to regenerate to gen 17, but it wouldn't go. Have they been nerfed? Sadie

Sadie, I just killed a 20 something gen. phoenix. Seems to be working now... ? -palindrome 20:20, 30 August 2006 (BST)
Sounds like an indication they haven't been nerfed. Random events seem to have a funny habit of repeating in this game. Could be an example. macksting 19:34, 31 August 2006 (BST)

Leather needed - will summon to Oz

Smith Vashenka is in need of leather to make Armour. It is dropped by Jabberwocks, found in the thieves forest, but with her newly reduced damage modifier, she's a bit scared of that area. She will summon you to Crimson City in Oz in exchange for some leather. Negotiation possible for larger amounts - including you getting some armour out of it.

If you don't want to mess about with trading/going to Oz, she'll be eventually heading back to the markets and is likely to buy leather at any reasonable price.

Leave a message here or on my talk page, palantir Vashenka, or talk to me on IRC. Vashka 10:04, 28 August 2006 (BST)

I'm guessing it's possible to wear a cuirass, a gorget, two gauntlets, and two greaves at the same time. How much leather would you want in exchange for all of those, plus the summon? Random4518 21:21, 28 August 2006 (BST)
I'd want the necessary materials plus half as much again, I think. So, if I've worked it out right, 57 pieces of leather and 240 bits of iron. Vashka 23:10, 28 August 2006 (BST)
OK. It'll take a while to get that much leather, but I'll be working on it. Random4518 02:41, 29 August 2006 (BST)

Seb's Stuff been nerfed

This happened in the last couple of days. I was looking to buy a new Vorpal Blade today, and Seb's aren't selling them anymore. Also gone are the alignment swords, glass swords, golden guns and lances. Fellow adventurers, don't waste your time going to Seb's anymore. He only sells useless junk now. -- LittleHamster 19:38, 27 August 2006 (BST)

Noooooo! not Seb's! What a drag. So where does one go to get a vorpal blade nowadays? 18:11, 28 August 2006 (BST)
I don't know of any way to get "new" vorpal blades--AFAIK they don't drop from monsters. You can get still get them from the markets as of this writing, and from at least one of the market stalls. I expect a sharp increase in prices... (All the rest of the items removed from Seb's at least come as monster drops, rare as they may be.) --Dragon 18:28, 28 August 2006 (BST)
Would that be "The Dragon's Hoard" conveniently located in the heart of Fire City? (I know a straight line when I hear one). They used to be dropped from monsters, or at least their existence was known before Seb's opened, but I've never gotten one via monster drop. Perhaps the rare items lists has been tweaked with the change to Seb's. Otherwise the Dojo quest will eventually become impossible. Hendsch 19:04, 28 August 2006 (BST)
Yes, I was referring to my shop (although others might have some too). However, according to elseware on IRC, as of last night Vorpals do drop from monsters. (Rarely, of course.) --Dragon 03:00, 29 August 2006 (BST)

Ferry to Oz

If between all interested parties we can get together :

150 bits of wood 20 bits of Ancient wood 20 Copper Nails a Bottle of Fizzy Wine an Empty Bottle

Then I will build and sail a Ferry to Oz. Hopefully if we can do it then I will meet the donators at the Trading post at Brighthelm tommorrow morning (tues) at 9am bst, set up the ferry at the end of the pier and hope to set sail to Oz on Wed morning 9am bst sharp. Please register your interest to do so below, even if just as a passenger, the donations are not nessicary but if I cant get the raw materials then I cannot build the ferry. Mad Frank

It might be easier to get someone who's already there to summon one of us and reward him with whatever we can collect.--Solune 12:27, 21 August 2006 (BST)
I have some summon stones so once I reach Oz in my Survey Vessel I'll summon a handful of peeps if they want. PlanetNiles 12:37, 21 August 2006 (BST)
I'd appreciate a summon to Oz. I'll gladly summon a couple people myself once I get there. 16:53, 21 August 2006 (BST)
I'm interested and i have ancient wood to donate for the ferry. Feel free to summon away- Looser.
Im afraid you will have to make your own way to Brighthelm as I dont have any spare summon stones. Im donating the rest of the materials for the ferry, which for the record is 20 copper nails, 40 tars, 10 pieces of ancient wood and 100 pieces of wood. Im just short the above. Ill also donate the AP and get us there in one day. The more the merrier. I wonder how many people a ferry can hold....? Mad Frank 20:12, 21 August 2006 (BST)
Are you the Mad Frank whose inventory is [this] ? If I read well it says that you have 7 summon stones and 3(!) speed boats. I really don't understand the need for a ferry. Anyway if you really want to do this, I have wood (not ancient), tars and I can get copper. Another way: Lady Caroline is ready to summon us for 50,000 which seems very expensive but affordable--Solune 22:22, 21 August 2006 (BST)
I am indeed that Mad Frank. I do have 7 summon stones but you can note my use of the word SPARE above. There isnt any other need for a ferry for me. I can get to Oz in my own little sporty speedboat anytime. I just thought it would be fun to fill a ferry full of people and make it the first transport to the colonies, in true cities style, helping those less well off than yourself. After all we dont all have the privilege of 3 speedboats. So hop aboard and off we go! Like I said, Ill take you for free but until I can build it, the ferry wont sail! Ill be at Brighthelm trading post (the Pavillion) all day today. Mad Frank 08:22, 22 August 2006 (BST)
Speedboats can carry people, just like ferries.... MrFoo 09:49, 22 August 2006 (BST)
Interesting, do you know how many? Mad Frank 11:12, 22 August 2006 (BST)
Oh well, looks like the trip is off due to poor response. Cheers to Markolous and someone else I cant remember for the Ore, Ferry Plan and the Empty bottle but thats all I got and it didnt amount to a ferry. Palantir me and Ill give the stuff back. Ill be off to Oz in my speedboat. Ill be on the beach at brighthelm for another few hours so if anyone wants to board, feel free. Mad Frank 09:36, 23 August 2006 (BST)

Solune appears looking rather surprised, they pick up the Summon Stone. Lady Caroline says 'A bottle of red wine says I'm feeling charitable this evening. Happy Exploring. If you come across any Xs from monster drops I would really appreciate them.' Caroline 23:19, 21 August 2006 (BST)

Thanks Lady Caroline, I have two more summoning stones that I'm ready to use for other to-be explorers
Summon please! I'm about three quarters of the way there in my survey vessel but am out of AP... Thanks! --BlaisedeC 04:56, 22 August 2006 (BST)
Summoned--Solune 10:19, 22 August 2006 (BST)
I'd love a summon! I'll repay your stone and some other cool things...- looser
For future summon list sign up on the Island Hopper page.

Well, Mad Frank and I had an enjoyable and smooth journey to Oz in his speedboat. A shame nobody else came along! Vashka 10:02, 24 August 2006 (BST)

I'm confused.... who wants summoning to Oz? I'm at the trading post on the SW cornber of Crimson City and can summon up to five people; more if they return the summon stones. PlanetNiles 12:10, 29 August 2006 (BST)

That conversation is pretty much closed. Any future travelers should refer to Cities:Military_Island_Hoppers--Solune 15:31, 29 August 2006 (BST)


Is there a place for us Oz explorers to talk and maybe combine our efforts? I just found the city of Alantish at 20E 216S. Im a little battered from an encounter with a Piscean and have had my retinas burnt by the dreamtime, a full heal costs 1000GP from the Flying Healer station. Its all very exciting stuff. I feel like a Pioneer! Ive been on a golf course, killed golfers and Khadis (They drop golf clubs and tees, another set to collect I recon). Im now following the yellow brick road! I know there are a few others here from the kills page so come on lets get together and share info. Timekeeper 10:01, 21 August 2006 (BST)

Just found Emerald City at the end of the yellow brick road - 16E 280S. The Timekeeper 10:01, 21 August 2006 (BST)

I just recently came to Oz myself. I've spent a good 200 - 300 AP exploring. I headed through one of the known passes located on the wiki, and came out to Dragon's landing. I went south until I hit a road, then took that west. I've been in the Dreamtime, the Bush, and in the number of small caves that seem to cluster on either side of the road. (The way I took, anyway.) After a considerable travel I came upon Crimson City. It seems to be like any other (Water City, Brighthelm, etc.), it even has a shrine. Which causes me to wonder if characters will be able to start in Oz in the future.

I've only seen one other person on my journey, another Duke on the road to Crimson City. There are a lot of spaces entitled "Empty lots" so I'm curious as to if we'll be able to do something with them (houses, shops?) or if they're just there because they needed a spot to be held while something else is worked on. I've also encountered a lot of Totems. Udine Totem, Worm Totem, etc.

The road seems to go south at this point, but I'm going to have to summon a friend from the islands in the north before I continue my journey. I am curious to see what is beyond the city. Ade 11:03, 21 August 2006 (ST)

Ive just found the Andies which seem to be an inner ring of mountains. Unclimable even with climbing skill. There is probably a pass but until we get working maps or someone posts a map im sticking firmly to the road. Timekeeper

Just found another city Los Laputas. Seems there are 4 new cities then :

  • Los Laputas - Air?
  • Crimson City - Fire?
  • Emerald City - Earth
  • Alantish - Water

They all have a street for members of the Original Star trek and also each have a street named after a Ghostbuster. There are 2 more references in streets that seem like they are homages to something but I didnt know what. Timekeeper

One of them is Arnold Schwarzenegger characters. Droll 19:07, 12 September 2006 (BST)
Atlantish is full of Docters. Crimson City is full of Warriors. Scientists hang out in Los Laputas. Can't quite figure Emerald City other than they all seem to be money grabbing, immoral, entrepreneurs. Caroline 20:06, 12 September 2006 (BST)

Note: In Oz, breaking elemental talismans will take you to one of the four cities of Oz, not back to the 'Kingdom. Droll 15:07, 21 August 2006 (BST)

Don't believe the Shopkeeper's lies. The maps they sell don't work either. JohnnyRogers 20:37, 25 August 2006 (BST)

Brave new land

Well, its finally appeared. I've been traversing the Moses-esque sea-rift down south for a while, and some land has finally become visible on the other side! At around 50E89S the new area is just visible on the edge of my big map. Don't know what it is though as it's a type of terrain I've never seen before. How very exciting. Sort of. It's just a game like. Now if only Moses and his people would hurry up we could all go have a viddy. Nuru nuru 10:03, 12 August 2006 (JST)

It seems to be a coral reef. Colorful, too. --Dragon 05:35, 12 August 2006 (BST)
Info from IRC (for those who don't know, cjg is our illustrious 'King):
<dragon> cjg:  Can you hint as to when we might be able to get down to the coral reef, or is that a Big Secret?
<cjg> big secret
<cjg> but I've got tons of time off 
<cjg> so I'll work on it over the next month.
<dragon> ah, ok
<dragon> "not soon then"
<cjg> yes
<cjg> I don't want it to be half arsed
<cjg> but it's big.
<cjg> and lots of new monsters planned.
<cjg> and a couple of other exciting things...

--Dragon 00:39, 13 August 2006 (BST)

That's worriesome. I've yet to even go to Bognor. macksting 19:05, 14 August 2006 (BST)
  • ahem.*

I claim this new land, with all of its strange creatures, in the name of 'King Elseware!

A picture of landfall (sadly not hosted here, since image-uploading seems to have issues)

Traditionally explorers get the privilege of naming their discoveries. I motion that this landing site be known as 'Dragons Bay' hencefort. TerrorRemedy
Is this a new Island or a new Continent? Cause if its a continent will we get that added to the Me page?
Right now, nothing is added to the Me page. I expect that once Elseware gets around to it, at least the cities there will show up on the Me page, and possibly the entire thing. (It does seem to be an entire continent--I've only explored a piece of it, but rumor has it there are four new cities, and multiple new quests. It's certainly more than your average island.) --Dragon 22:48, 19 August 2006 (BST)
Well if that is true then we need to have names for continents. I suggest Alpaska for the old continent. Who is with me! -Stien
I believe it already has a name, "The 'Kingdom" MrFoo 01:02, 20 August 2006 (BST)
actually not quite. The land of the 4 cities is "The 'Kingdom". It ends at the rurals to the north, the forest line to the west and at the start of the desert to the south. Elseware 01:44, 20 August 2006 (BST)
The name for the new continent phoenetically sounds like Os. Whether you want to spell it Oz or Aus is entirely a matter of taste. Speaking of which, has anyone been to Kansas lately? or tangled with a twister? Hendsch 13:48, 22 August 2006 (BST)
Just went to Kansas to see any differance, nothing new, fought with a twister over 20 times. Never got taken to Oz. Oh well was worth a try I imagine. -Markous 08:24, 23 August 2006 (BST)

Headline: Treemen Not Extinct

Leuters, 8/10 - When Doc Mackie awoke this morning in the Four Cities area after a long day gathering in a nearby woods, he did not expect to become a suddenly wealthier man.

"I don't deserve this," said Macksting, 2:40 PST. "I've worked hard, it's true, and compiling that Tarot deck took a lot of time, but I've seldom killed so much as bees or a giant spider in those woods; I was just looking for two pieces of ancient wood, and hoped beyond hope to find a treeman at all!"

Doc Mackie was in for a shock. Not only was a Treeman nearby, only 25 squares away by Tarot deck, but when felled, it yielded ten (10) pieces of ancient wood, thirty (30) pieces of ordinary wood, and a pair of Reading Glasses.

"It was like winning the lottery. I'm still not sure what to do with it all. The right thing to do would be to sell the excess at a bargain, but I feel so torn."

Naturally, fellow citizens agree with this sentiment.

"Wot's 'e doin' gettin' all that wood, when I been workin' this land all me life and never got more'n' a splinter," asks Widow Beckenshire. Her claims are still in dispute, citing evidence that she lives in Bognor.

Several readers were quick to point out that some credit should be given to the LLL for all it's work in ridding the forrest of it's undesireable residents.
The editor of the Fourteen Times Seven would like to apologize for this oversight. Also responsible for bounty hunting in the forest is Donkey. macksting 21:48, 13 August 2006 (BST)

Free slime, come and get 'em

I just released a sock of slime and I need some help getting rid of them. I'm sitting in the middle of them at 90E 1N if anyone would love to take a whack at them. --Gaccm 03:32, 10 August 2006 (BST)

Taken care of. --Dragon 04:05, 10 August 2006 (BST)
Bummer. macksting 22:01, 10 August 2006 (BST)
There's more free slime just south of Fire City, if anyone would like it -- Elan 14:44, 14 August 2006 (BST)
All gone. Darksatanic 15:05, 14 August 2006 (BST)

Unprotect the Main_Page's talk page

Please? Pretty please? With sugar (and a cherry) on top?

Why in the 'king's name did whoever protect that anyway? The mind boggles...

--Snarfer 15:45, 7 August 2006 (BST)

It used to attract a *lot* of spam. Can you start the discussion here instead? Darksatanic 16:02, 7 August 2006 (BST)

Which Potions should I Make?

I now have both the eye infection and a Everything's Spinning infection. Anyone knows which of the new potions, if any, cure the spinning? It's giving me headaches! The Sewers page reports that the eye infection eventually darkening sight and healed by drinking a collection of new potions ending in trill. Does it mean I only need the Trill Potion? Or do I need to make all the other potions as well? -- LittleHamster 07:52, 4 August 2006 (BST)

If you want to swing through the Park Bench, I have a trill potion - you could try just that one and report whether it fixes one of your problems or not. Syagrius 14:27, 4 August 2006 (BST)
Thanks. I'll stop by there (It's Sioned, btw). Oh, and the corners have darkened now. I wonder how long will it take me to make my way to the markets to buy the ingredients for the potions. That spinning is really annoying me now. -- LittleHamster 15:06, 4 August 2006 (BST)
You now have a trill potion Syagrius 15:26, 4 August 2006 (BST)
Thanks. It cured my eye infection! I owe you two trill potions then. I'm now off buying/foraging for herbs to make all the other potions and see which one cures the spinning. I'll report in the wiki when I found the correct one. -- LittleHamster 15:37, 4 August 2006 (BST)
Boniface cures the ear infection, so don't make that one. Hendsch 18:33, 4 August 2006 (BST)
Thanks. I've now crossed that one off my list.

Update: The spinning cures itself after I spent a morning and an afternoon, and over 100AP foraging. I'm not sure if it's passage of time, or AP spent that cures it. But I'd bet it's AP. -- LittleHamster 18:46, 4 August 2006 (BST)

Asgard Question

Ok, so I did the whole Asgard quest, and made it to Vahalla. Well, after wondering around there for a while, I teleported to Tokyo 4. The thing is, I never saw or fought any Fenris Wolf, never saw that Heimdall guy, and nothing showed up in my Me page. Did I do something wrong, or not do something, or what? Little help please. Jatt 06:08, 3 August 2006 (BST)

You should have met the Fenris Wolf on the Bifrost Bridge. If you didn't...maybe someone came that way recently and the Wolf hadn't respawned yet. Heimdall appears when you beat the Wolf. Once you complete the quest, on your Me page under "Visits: Cities" it should say "You are welcome in Valhalla." --Dragon 07:07, 3 August 2006 (BST)
From memory, the wolf should spawn on about a 5 minute cycle, so if it was what Dragon suggested, there was someone else completing the quest within a few minutes of you. I'll investigate later. Darksatanic 09:55, 3 August 2006 (BST)
Ah, I see. I guess I'll have to go back and kick it's ass. Except now it won't let me go there by blowing the Horn from anywhere; I have to go back north and follow the Spear and Hammer again. Is there any way you could just put back on the bridge or something since the Fenris Wolf wasn't there, or is it just tough luck for me and I have to hike all the way back up? Jatt 20:26, 3 August 2006 (BST)

Tribble beggery

Who knew when I was dumping tribbles in the dump or throwing them into the markets for fun that I might one day want them back? I'm currently looking to acquire the nasty buggers if anyone has any they'd like to be rid of. I bought one (can you believe they sell for 25k now??!!?) and am hoping for reproduction, but the more the merrier.. If you see me on a trading post, I'm the guy with the badge asking for them. Please feel free to bombard me. Thanks! Jon 22:00, 2 August 2006 (BST)

As soon as I can figure out the launch schedule, I'm making a trip to space. I'll snag you one while I'm up there. Gonzometro 23:48, 2 August 2006 (BST)

Thanks Gonzo, but don't worry about it. After Mackie's invitiation to hit up the K.O.T. it's just a matter of time and I will have plenty of the beasts without ther loss of food. Thanks again for ofering! Jon 12:25, 4 August 2006 (BST)
If I come across one, I'll strongly consider handing it over... but I don't suppose, if I were to offer a trade, you'd skin me a bunch for a fur coat? I'd rather not handle them so much myself. Might offer a little food for them to sweeten whatever deal we might strike.
On that note, last I knew we had a significant surplus of them in the Charity Bin at the K.O.T. keep. Feel very, very free to raid the bin of tribbles. With, again, the caveat that I'd very much like to strike a deal whereby I get a fur coat. macksting 22:42, 3 August 2006 (BST)
Thanks for the reminder of the Charity Bin! It will take me awhile to come up with the necessary AP (both for collecting the needed amount of runts and for skinning them all I'm going to need about 1100 AP more than I have now), but in light of your services with the K.O.T., consider the fur coat a gift. I'll let you know when it's ready. In the meantime, I'll be hitting the Charity Bin or standing on the K.O.T. Trading Post so anyone feeling generous can scoop some tribbles from the bin and dump them on me. Jon 12:25, 4 August 2006 (BST)
Oof. I would feel so generous, but I have a lot of foodstuffs. Hence the nature of the trade. However, you'll be doing a significant service to me just ridding that place of its tribble infestation over time. That's worth whatever the tribbles are worth to you anyway. :)
That said, I just can't say no to a free fur coat; I might bargain for more pelts, as they'd be nice to have around.
I think this worked out very, very nicely. By the way, what Caffienators are you not currently immune to? I'll donate Kahlua and a gram of spice, if you'd like; I've got 12, but if I find a 13th, it's freely yours for a good deal. :) macksting 20:13, 4 August 2006 (BST)
I've been grabbing tribbles and they keep multiplying as well so I'm almost halfway there now. As soon as I have the 100 I need I'll skin as many as I can in one shot and wait for my AP to go back above 0, make a coat and then can hand it over. Any caffeinated items you would like to drop off at the time are most welcome but also completely unnecessary. The only thing I know for sure I'm immune to is coffee. Oh, and I don't use fags or magic powder at all anymore (which is why I drink so much coffee) so hold onto those. If I find myself with a few extra tribble pelts, I'll gladly throw them your way as well, but I'm not going to intentionally go over the number I actually need for the coats. I'm hoping to have the first coat done by Monday Tuesday evening. Would you mind if I summoned you to the K.O.T. stronghold when I'm ready to hand it over? Jon 03:13, 5 August 2006 (BST)
Hunting Apple Pips, so it would probably be a kindness if you did so. macksting is the account name, and I've never worn a disguise; just don't go thinkin' I'm Mackie just because I sign that way occasionally. :) macksting 20:34, 7 August 2006 (BST)
Done sir. And might I recommend for anyone looking to grow Tribbles, go check out the entry I'm about to put on my page for some tips on doing so. Good luck with the coat Mackie! -Jon 12:00, 9 August 2006 (BST)

They've left the forest and have learned to Swim!


what do we do now?!?!?!Skold 18:58, 31 July 2006 (BST)
Good question. I suggest we find a brave soul to kill them. What's useful for that? macksting 19:34, 31 July 2006 (BST)
I've found massive overpowering force (like a Phaser) works quite nicely :-) -- Thog 20:35, 31 July 2006 (BST)
Great! Now the thief is fishing in the ocean using worms as bait!


ok, The swimming thief is dead. But not without terrible consequences. He stole my dragon stone. Damn him. Also, he seemed to be quite an old theif, by the treasure I found on him:
You attack the Thief.
You cause 50 points of damage, and receive 1000 experience.
You slay the Thief.
You gain a Mug of Coffee.
You gain a Fire Cracker.
You gain 3 Sheets of Paper.
You gain a Magic Bean.
You gain a Sharp Sword.
You gain 2 Pairs of Beer Goggles.
You gain an Earth Talisman.
You gain a Mirror.
You gain an Earth Stone.
You gain a Long Bow.
You gain a Summon Stone.
You gain an Air Talisman.
You gain a Night Stick.
You gain 2 Clocks of Invisibility.
You gain 3 Arrows.
You gain 5150 Drogna.
You gain a Fire Stone.
You gain a Magic Opal.

Great... what do I do with Drogna anymore. I'll trade someone 5150 Drogna and a Peavey guitar amp for a dragon stone.Skold 18:49, 1 August 2006 (BST)

Drogna can be sold for GP at any of the coiners, I believe. Dragon Stones can be purchased at the Markets. Or see me. -- Sertularian 19:13, 1 August 2006 (BST)
Yeah, and regardless, I want to thank you for your bravery! Killing thieves is a noble action, and should carry a bounty. Therefore, I, Duke Macksting, shall reward you for taking out that fugitive.
No, not a Dragon Stone, but I'll give you a good dent toward it. And if you still have that pirate's hat, you'll be able to get a steal on it. Hell, I might pay you the full cash for that stone at Pirate Hat prices.
You've gotta post this kill on your user page. macksting 19:53, 1 August 2006 (BST)
Oh yeah. Can you save one of those Drogna for me? macksting 19:53, 1 August 2006 (BST)
There. The story is told, and makes a great childrens story. You may find it on my new user page. (oh, and the hat was meant to be given to copperisblue, but he's not fighting ninjas right now and is an alt of mine. So I don't know that it would be fair. I spose I could sell it off.skold 20:19, 1 August 2006 (BST)
Donkey is fighting ninjas! HE'd love a pirate hat! And I'll trade you a wooly hat in return! What do you say? I'm in the theives forest now. I'm livign a slightly monastic life, so I don't have much gold (1600) but i do have a fort hill permit and a catana- Donkey 20:39, 1 August 2006 (BST)
Here here! We're all sorta impressed with Donkey. Might wanna keep that hill permit, I can offset that purchase cost with something else; after all, you're in want of a hat, and hill permits are precisely for guarding them. macksting 22:39, 3 August 2006 (BST)


Hiya, I built a mine, but after a few days (I didn't remember the exact number of days because I didn't think it would disappear) the mine disappeared! So just to say Cathys the mines dunt last forever. If you didn't know- now you do know. I wish that they would last for longer. I think it was less than one week. Maybe there could be an option to abondon the mine to close it down and another option to service the mine to keep it open for longer at a cost of a few AP and some wood. What do you think? --YFM 13:28, 31 July 2006 (BST)

I was thinking about it and maybe mines disappear after a certain amount of times they get mined for minerals instead of having a time limit in days --YFM 14:22, 31 July 2006 (BST)
How many of those mines have you had anyway, Sue?
My understanding was that mines only last for a finite number of mine-ings. So it's best to set them up in a secluded place where other scavengers can't get to them. THat being said, Thanks to all the people with mines who I have scavenged off of.

Picnic Basket

Does anyone know the exact build for the picnic basket, I got one of each sandwich, is there more? A bottle of wine? Juice? Cake.... Anyone know? -Stien 02:25, 30 July 2006 (BST)

Ya gotta have a basket to put it all in. :) Syagrius 04:11, 30 July 2006 (BST)
I have the basket, but it still wont work. -Stien
Official recipe (from the recipe file here on the wiki) is as follows:
1 Basket
1 Cucumber Sandwich
1 Gorganzola Sandwich
1 Breakfast Club Sandwich
1 Bacon Sandwich
If you have all those, I don't know why it wouldn't be working. Syagrius 18:55, 30 July 2006 (BST)

Where is the recipie file located? I can't find it anywhere. ----

http://cities.totl.net/cgi-bin/build.xml MrFoo 21:48, 30 July 2006 (BST)

On another note, I just happily donated one to the new married couple. I wonder what else one can do with those things. Ah well, perhaps by the time I need worry about it, I'll be able to make my own Gorgon-Zola cheese. macksting 19:33, 31 July 2006 (BST)


Does one get a bonus for being on top of an "other" scores list? For example, does Droll get some kind of bonus for topping the "distance travelled" table? 00:17, 28 July 2006 (BST)

Likewise, are you supposed to get multiple bonuses if you are at the top of multiple tables? I always assumed you did, but I'm currently at the top of 3 kill tables, and I'm only get +10AP each day. --Sam 20:29, 28 July 2006 (BST)
I've never heard anything about bonuses for tables other than monster kills. As for those, you get 10*floor(sqrt(n)) AP for being at the top of n kill lists. So you need to be at the top of four to get 20AP, nine for 30AP, etc. --Dragon 03:02, 29 July 2006 (BST)
Ah, right. I just got +20, though I'm only at the top of 3 tables. I was at the top of 4 last night, so maybe it calculates it at a different time to when you get the bonus (midnight?). --Sam 13:24, 29 July 2006 (BST)
Your character is Boojum, right? You're at the top of four as of right now. Keep in mind that in the case of ties, only one person will get on this list, but everyone gets the bonus. (Right now, you're leading Badgers, Bees, Brute Squads, and are tied--with me :)--for Jabberwocks.) --Dragon 17:48, 29 July 2006 (BST)
Yeah, that's Boojum. That would explain things, because I had crept ahead in the Jabberwock league (I've spent weeks in the thieves forest, never seen a single Jabberwock, then 3 come along in one evening), then noticed I'd lost it when I checked just before midday. Since you were at the top of the list, I assumed it went to whoever got there last. --Sam 20:22, 1 August 2006 (BST)
I've been unable to determine the logic of who appears on that list. It doesn't seem to be who got there first or last, or who is alphabetically first, or anything like that. It might be random--it doesn't really matter, since everyone gets the bonus. Also, Jabberwocks have only been in the game a few days, so it's not surprising you didn't see them before.  :) --Dragon 03:19, 2 August 2006 (BST)
It's not random. However, it is arbitrary. :) Darksatanic 09:32, 2 August 2006 (BST)

Sand castles

Has anybody worked out yet what the biggest class of sandcastle is? And importantly, how much AP does it cost to kick down again? I've seen bijou, small, large and huge. I did once also see a larger class, though I forget what it was. Something like "ridiculously enormous". Currently, I'm spending all my AP getting vast quantities of sand. When I reach 10,000 units+ I'll build, but I wondered if it's worth hanging out till I reach a larger level :) Darksartago 18:33, 25 July 2006 (BST)

Well, to answer my own question 10,005 units of sand, a bucket, a spade, a pointy stick, a sheet of paper, and 1,213 AP buys you a "crazy-big" sandcastle, which will take a mere 100AP to destroy.
Thank you. Like Heyus2, you also have pioneered forward on something I didn't want to learn the hard way. I bestow upon you a kudo. macksting 20:15, 28 July 2006 (BST)

You are wankered

Okay, at what point does alcohol poisoning set in? I am at -834% to hit with fists right now. And while I enjoy the fact that everything is sexy and will probably be sexy for a long, long time, I don't think I am getting any closer to alcohol-coma. Nor do I think my alcohol tolerance is going up. I am close to being able to do the entire pub crawl with a cloak of invisibility on now. Heyus2 23:37, 24 July 2006 (BST)

Alcohol poisoning - what a fascinating, creative, personal quest! My hat is off to you, sir! (Please try not to throw up in it.) -- Sexy Duke Sertularian MD 00:25, 25 July 2006 (BST)
-942% to hit and counting (I'm limited by my AP right now)... I must openly protest that despite exceeding Boris Yeltsin's BAC, oceans are still oceans and fields are still fields and jungles are still jungles. Why not "Sexy Ocean" and "Sexy Field"? None of my inventory is sexy either. There comes a point in every drinking binge where the difference between human, animal, creature, and object are indistinguishable. I demand my "Sexy Soul". Heyus2 01:16, 25 July 2006 (BST)
I'll have to remember to give you a Kudo for checking this out for me. macksting 19:39, 25 July 2006 (BST)
Oh yeah. I've also got more coffee than I could ever possibly use even with three clinic invites, so I could easily pass them off to you for when you need to sober up... whenever that might be. macksting 19:43, 25 July 2006 (BST)
I'm at -1875% to hit right now... And while I thank you for your kind offer, I don't think you have enough coffee to sober me up. I don't think the Betty Fnord Clinic could detox me right now. Devs, I think this is a challenge... I need something to either sober me up or the option to vomit. Heyus2 00:27, 26 July 2006 (BST)
Okay, I think I give up... I got to -3000% to hit and nothing fun. Now to detox... I'm going to be hanging out at the trading post next to immemorial park in earth city soon (heyus1). Someone bring the beer bong! Heyus2 19:16, 26 July 2006 (BST)
I managed to get to -2000% myself a while ago. It took a week for me to sober up without the use of coffee. Good times... Kaos Dragon 14:44, 30 July 2006 (BST)


I have been getting this message: "You find yourself shivering occasionally." Do I need to buy some specific clothes, or will anything do? Soelo 19:48, 24 July 2006 (BST)

You have frostbite. Wear warm clothing or spend some time in a warm place and it ought to abate. -- Celane 21:27, 24 July 2006 (BST)
Strongly recommend Scarves, Woolly Gloves, and Jumpers. Handy stuff. Other such items can be found in the Items section of the Wiki, under Winter Survival. macksting 19:37, 25 July 2006 (BST)
I ended up breaking an Earth Talisman and got over the shivering. Now I am getting poisoned on the road. What can I do about that? --Soelo 22:15, 26 July 2006 (BST)
You got poisoned by the snakes, but poison kicks in every hour. Find yourself a Dose of Antidote (they occasionally drop from Bats, or buy one from the markets)--each dose cures two poison levels. (Alternatively, Jude, the healer in Brighthelm, can cure poison as well.) --Dragon 04:58, 27 July 2006 (BST)

Lantern breakage rate?

Has the breakage rate for lanterns increased? I've just lost two Oil Lanterns in the last 3 hours (one the move after I put it on). This seems a lot worse than it was last time I used one a few weeks ago (and FAR worse than the last time I tried a Gas Lantern, when it didn't break at all) -- Thog 18:34, 24 July 2006 (BST)

Yikes. I take it they break from walking? macksting 19:34, 25 July 2006 (BST)
Yep (well, walking with it equipped). It "wears out", you lose your light source, and you don't even get any raw materials back for your trouble. Now that I think of it, was this an unintended side-effect of the other breakage changes? -- Thog 19:43, 25 July 2006 (BST)
No, I don't believe that will have affected anything but the few blings that were modified. If those changes had altered lanterns, they'd also have affected absolutely everything else. Darksatanic 19:46, 25 July 2006 (BST)
Aw man, I didn't know lanterns wore out at all! I thought you just had to keep refilling them every so often, so I sold all my surplus; I ended up making about 15 lanterns (of both types total) with all my extra Bronze from Space and put them all on the market, keeping only 1 of each. Jatt 03:35, 26 July 2006 (BST)
Do you figure, statistically, that we should need more than 3 on any given spelunking? macksting 19:23, 26 July 2006 (BST)
I can say this much - I went through two while travelling through the first half of the North-West tunnels. I pretty much stumbled blind through the second half (and got lucky not to run into a Giant Mutant Living Tar). Thinking about it, though, I never had a lamp actually break like it is now. Run out of fuel, sure, but break? Never. Was this a change, or were we all just insanely lucky before? -- Thog 19:43, 26 July 2006 (BST)
I think since they made the change to have "wearable" stuff, all wearable items have worn out (except hats). I lost 3 lanterns doing the NW tunnels, many moons ago, but I visited every room to make sure I didn't miss anything. The SW and NE tunnels you don't really need lanterns at all. Hendsch 21:03, 26 July 2006 (BST)

Cucumber + Knife = Slices?

I have a cucumber; I have several kinds of knives; I am earth aligned... What the heck do I have to do to slice my cucumber? No matter which I "use", knife or cucumber, I don't get the option to slice it. I'm sure this is obvious. Thanks to any who can help.

Leoth 00:53, 24 July 2006 (BST)

"Several kinds of knives"? You need a Knife--not an aligned Knife, or a Daemonic Knife, or anything like that, just a plain, simple Knife. If you have one, I don't know what's wrong--I get the option to slice when selecting a Cucumber. --Dragon 05:33, 24 July 2006 (BST)

Ah, that's the problem: I have aligned knives and swords. OK; not to complain much, but I have about one hundred and twelve edged weapons and I CAN'T CUT A CUCUMBER??? That, I'm afraid, is just silly. You should be able to slice a cucumber with anything from a sword to a disposable razor. It has a blade; it can slice a cucumber. Anything else is merely preposterous.

Leoth (disgusted) 06:08, 24 July 2006 (BST)

It makes some sense. Can you imagine what it would look like cutting a cucumber with a great sword, and knives are very cheap. Spring the 100 for one at the markets, or check the earth city dump, there are bound to be plenty around.
yes you can cut a cucumber with any edged weapon but the question is should you? the 'king obviously wouldn't want sandwiches made from such roughly chopped cucumber and that is all that matters here. in a more useful vein, there are currently no knives in the dump so you will have to go and buy one.

I take your point, but the sandwich isn't for the King; I'm already a Duke. It's for myself, to raise max AP after drinking a bad batch of dragon's blood. And I'm not that picky. No matter. I'm on the space elevator now. Perhaps I can buy a knife whilst in orbit. Thanks for replies.

Leoth 15:58, 24 July 2006 (BST)

Have you ever gotten the option to slice them before? It's possible (albeit unlikely) that you didn't know where to look. Most such functions are at the bottom of the screen.
Just to clarify, I suspect you know that and looked accordingly. It is, however, quite feasible to become a duke without ever cutting a cucumber. macksting 18:41, 24 July 2006 (BST)

Let's Go Out To The Caverns

I'm planning a trek to the Caverns on Bombadier Island. For those of you who are unaware, completing the Caverns requires ten (10) Tarot cards. The reward is +30% to-hit, which is a big deal, especially for non-Fire players.

Getting to the Island is quite AP-costly, however. I am planning a trip to the caverns soon (probably tomorrow, or the day after), so if anyone wants to get there quickly, go over to User:Stevie-O/CavernTrek and read up. If you don't want to do it, go to that page and read it anyway, because you might catch some glaring flaw in my plan that should probably be accounted for :)

Stevie-O 05:48, 19 July 2006 (BST)

Psst. If you haven't yet done the Caverns and can scrape together the tarot cards to do so, I strongly suggest joining Stevie-O's group so you can be there in the next few days. Wink, wink.  ;) --Dragon 16:59, 20 July 2006 (BST)
Did you already set off for the island? From the looks of the island-hoppers list, seems like it. I've put my name down on the summons list, but I don't have anyone to give a stone to. MrBlarney 07:48, 22 July 2006 (BST)
I'll summon you if you still need to be tomorrow morning (UK Monday). I have just finished the quest so I can summon you when my AP is regenerated, leave an update. YFM
Yeah, I'm still in the main cities area so I'd much appreciate a summon. My name's on the island hoppers list, so be sure to follow the procedures there... MrBlarney 09:52, 24 July 2006 (BST) EDIT: I've been summoned. Thanks.

Trading Post South of the Desert?

I've got a rather noobish question there... is there a trading post south of the great desert? (on the mainland) could anyone point one out for me? thanks. --Dragoon 15:05, 18 July 2006 (BST)

There is one in Brighthelm and one in Bentnob. -- LittleHamster 15:07, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Reasonable question, really. The one in Brighthelm is called the Pavillion or something, right? macksting 18:54, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Hill Fort Disappointment/Warning

Having gained a hill fort permit I was well excited to build one to try it out. Well I just spent 120 ap collecting the 100 wood to build a fort, 50 ap to construct it, I find I am encased within and cannnot move.

So I think to myself ok I will dismatle it and build it somewhere else when I really need it but I find I dont get the permit back, just 57 pieces of wood. Im quite disappointed and I just wanted to warn the rest of you not to build your fort till you are ready to hole up for a while.

What I am most disappointed with is my carpentry skills. What kind of bloke builds himself a fort without a door? Surely I should have thought to myself to allow myself a way in and out without having to take the whole thing apart! - Mad Frank 17:54, 17 Jul 2006 (BST)

It might be nominally for the protection of hats, hence the ability to eventually dismantle it when you want to. Of course, true comedy would be if it were possible to assault it by cannon... macksting 20:12, 17 July 2006 (BST)

I have seen a few wizard hats protected by hill forts. IMHO, a completely useless addition to the game that is only useful to hat wearers -- LittleHamster 21:40, 17 July 2006 (BST)

I second that. ie. let's build fort on Holliday Island.
You can't--(in)conveniently enough, there are no hills on Holiday Island. --Dragon 02:00, 20 July 2006 (BST)
Actually, Fort Droll was one square to the west of the Club House this afternoon. Don't know if it's still there -- Thog 04:10, 20 July 2006 (BST)
Interesting. That's a Field according to both the wiki and the DSS...not that either of those are infallible, but still... --Dragon 04:31, 20 July 2006 (BST)
It was added when the Hill Forts were first created, so that our glorious Queen Caroline could test them without straying too far from the island. Darksatanic 13:29, 20 July 2006 (BST)
Apparently the wooden palisades spoil the holiday attitude, as regular AP accrual (above max) does not occur within the walls. Droll 16:31, 21 July 2006 (BST)
There are easier ways to hide a hat. - Isambard 22:15, 17 July 2006 (BST)
The fort does not hide; it protects. It is possible that in the future other uses for forts will be found. Droll 16:31, 21 July 2006 (BST)
One assumes that you are not yourself wearing a hat at the moment, eh, LittleHamster? Because from my standpoint they seem fairly useful. Though one can craft for only so long before one feels the need for other, better company. -palindrome 04:43, 18 July 2006 (BST)
And one of the wizard hat forts I've seen is, coincidentally, Fort Palindrome, south of the southern road, on the far east :) -- LittleHamster 06:39, 18 July 2006 (BST)
Guilty as charged. As I said, I do find them fairly useful for the moment, though if our roles were reversed, I might not. ;-) Actually I'm half-anticipating that someone will discover a means of breaching the fort and stealing the hat. -palindrome 07:03, 18 July 2006 (BST)
I'm mostly just bemused. I'd rather wondered what point a Hill Fort had; I got the plans in a trade, generally for the same nominal reason as the other person got what I traded for it. Curiousity. I don't know if he's ever used what he got; I know I haven't used the Hill Fort Permit.
Now the Mining Permits, that's somewhat more handy. macksting 18:53, 18 July 2006 (BST)
I'm going on vacation in a couple of weeks, for several weeks and I'm planning on having my character hole up in a fort while I'm gone. I'm hoping that when I come back, I won't find myself in Limbo and have to slog all the way back to wherever.Dendrast 03:35, 2 August 2006 (BST)
I strongly suggest you go to Holiday Island instead, that way your AP will keep increasing past your MaxAP and you'll definately not go to Limbo. MrFoo 10:26, 2 August 2006 (BST)

Help needed for crossing the desert

could someone summon me, "solarice", to somewhere south of the desert (brighthelm or anywhere near the road would be fine)? im trying to get some hardknocks in before i brave the gauntlet. im willing to discuss possible compensations at your request. many thanks. --Dragoon 07:28, 15 July 2006 (BST)

It's really not that terribly hard to cross the desert...if you're going to hard knocks, you'll be down on hp anyway, so why not brave the desert and maybe pick up some spice/tar/exp on the way? If you get stuck, then ask for a summon. Jatt 09:44, 15 July 2006 (BST)
There's only three reasons not to brave the desert.
  1. Not having enough Xp to move south across it.
  2. Not having completed your Gauntlet
  3. Not having healed enough HP to get your water bottle.
In the first case work for your Xp. The second case is a good source of Xp and you really only have to fear the Nightmare Dragon. In the third case.. share your APs and heal your fellow players. PlanetNiles 12:22, 15 July 2006 (BST)
I'd say there's only 1: the Xp. The first time I crosse dthe desert, I had done neither of the last 2, and accidentally crossed it...long story. I made it fine. Jatt 17:37, 15 July 2006 (BST)
Well, it's more of a strategic decision on my part. i'd like to get my hp up to 400+ before i tackle the gauntlet and desert (for fortune teller). that way, i will save some ap doing healing on meself (more cost efficient to use the dragon stone with a high max hp). it would also save me the ap to cross the desert/trying to get a water skin while just focusing on getting the 12 levels of hardknocks done :) so, i'm still in search for a quick trip to the "south beach" area. (willing to pay a reasonable fee) --Dragoon 23:38, 15 July 2006 (BST)
Haha, I wasn't saying you couldn't do it, in fact, I'd summon you myself for free except I'm on Cigar Island. good luck on your crossing. :) Jatt 23:55, 15 July 2006 (BST)
400+? You don't need anything like 400 for either the gauntlet or desert. you could do the gauntlet without any bandages with less than that. All you need is a few bandages, and you can do either easily. MrFoo 00:08, 16 July 2006 (BST)
S/he's right about the Dragon Stone being more efficient with a higher Max HP, though. Damnit, why didn't I think of that! I'll have to hit up the School myself! Sadly, I'm north of the 4 Cities Area, not South, and I'm probably going to be responding to a Tubthumping request. macksting 20:37, 16 July 2006 (BST)

Request fulfilled. Kudos to Duke CornMaster MD, summoned me directly to school of hardknocks! i owe you one. --Dragoon 23:01, 17 July 2006 (BST)

Air Ship

ok, I saw someone on an airship at the beach on the south of Bentknob. How do I get me one of them?Density 17:43, 14 July 2006 (BST)

You can find a plan from large baddies. -- LittleHamster 18:05, 14 July 2006 (BST)

Any suggestions? Really, really big Pheonix come to mind. macksting 21:58, 14 July 2006 (BST)
I don't think Pheonix loot works that way (the gold/charcoal/feathers increase with each generation, but I don't think the other stuff does). The kraken was mentioned on IRC.... --Dragon 01:57, 15 July 2006 (BST)
I've killed 4 kraken the last few days. The last dropped something like 28 saltpeters and... nothing else. Krakens really don't drop much worth having, although I have only killed 4, so maybe I speak too soon. -palindrome
I've killed 2 Krakens reently as well, and a Shark too...nothing to brag about. Which larger baddies would you be speaking of? Jatt 03:01, 16 July 2006 (BST)
I think it takes time for new loot to get into their drop lists, after a creature has appeared, it's loot has already been decided, so any new item can only appear on creatures that have been created after that point. MrFoo 10:35, 16 July 2006 (BST)

The 'king announced last week on IRC that the air ship plan has become available. He also said the plans will be dropped from something like the HUGER3 table. I don't know what monsters drop from that particular table, but with a name like HUGE, it must be rare. And MrFoo is right about new stuff will only be available from newly spawned monsters. -- LittleHamster 18:11, 16 July 2006 (BST)

Dur, I had forgotten about that. Good call. :) Jatt 18:36, 16 July 2006 (BST)
huger3 covers the sea monsters and not much else at the moment. (Personally, I'd have called the table "ginormous", but there you have the difference between me and Elseware...) Darksatanic 18:42, 16 July 2006 (BST)
Yay! Finally those big sea monsters will drop some goodies. I'm priming my cannons! -palindrome 23:25, 16 July 2006 (BST)
Great Lord Harvey has one up in the frozen north (north of Bognor). It appears that you can board it (by clicking on the Airship name) and fly around with him :) Doc Sy 01:08, 18 July 2006 (BST)


The Emissary spoke of a new island in the southern seas. Is this old news, or something I should break out my ship-in-a-bottle for? Anyone been island hopping recently? Gonzometro 01:33, 14 July 2006 (BST)

It's new news and is the start of a new quest. -- LittleHamster 07:27, 14 July 2006 (BST)


I can't see that b**ch anywere XD ... I wear beer goggles, and still don't see it. I'm standing in the castle so I guess it should be there, how often does it spawn?

It's not invisible. It spawns every couple of days or so. - Isambard 01:06, 14 July 2006 (BST)
Someone stole the last Gorgan on the old server when I had it down to something around 100 HP to upgrade my demonic sword *GRRR" You should be ashamed! Peskil 14:06, 14 July 2006 (BST)

Umm... did I get robbed?

So I spent much time mining silver, a LOT of time. Enough to make me a silver catana. I turned it into a fire catana and had great fun with my fire catana. But, I logged on quickly two days ago and didn't see it in my inventory, but I didn't have any time, so I thought I missed it. I'm checking now and sure enough, it's gone. So.... i breathe a bit, remind myself it's a game, but then, does anyone know how could i have lost it? It didn't brake, and I never attack theives, so... could it have been stolen? I don't know how it works so any info would be nice... or if anyone has any fire catanas sitting around, that would be nice too. --Gaccm 05:43, 11 July 2006 (BST)

If you've been in the Thieves' Forest, you might have been robbed by another player who's completed the thief quest. If that's the case, you would have gotten a message about it, though.... --Dragon 06:14, 11 July 2006 (BST)
I loose weapons sometimes too and don't know what happened .. I guess that I just miss the messages and they just break, maybe you have the same thing. 09:12, 11 July 2006 (BST)
That really sucks. I've got 900 extra bits of silver I'd be willing to donate; palantir me. Gonzometro 23:44, 11 July 2006 (BST)
Wow, that is a really generous offer, thank you. I'm going to have to decline because I'm not going to be able to schedule a time to meet (I only have internet access for 5min/day for the next week). Also, I traded to get a mining permit, so i'm mining at 9ap, so I should be able to get 10 silver ores fairly quickly. I'm surprised you have 900 silver to offer, as you're only 1 ore short of making your own silver catana. Gaccm.
Yay! The internet returns to me. During my 5min/day of internet i was able to mine enough to make myself another Silver catana. Even w/ a mining permit it took a solid week to mine, smelt and make the silver catana. Oh well, I got a ton of other ore now which is nice. Well, now I can finally enjoy the game again, and Gonzometro, thanks again for your offer, that was really nice. --Gaccm 01:18, 21 July 2006 (BST)
Sigh, and of course it broke. I was being cautious with it, but it still broke. I guess it just wasn't meant to be. --Gaccm 23:29, 21 July 2006 (BST)

Plum Pie Recipe

The Master Thief just asked me for a Plum Pie. Has anyone made one of these--what are the ingredients? Or which monsters can I bash to find one? The "Making Things" wiki seems to be silent on this. harvestbird 03:17, 11 July 2006 (BST)

According to build.xml, you need a Basket of Crushed Plums and a Handful of Dough. --Dragon 03:45, 11 July 2006 (BST)
Cheers; I'll see how I go and report accordingly! harvestbird 04:19, 11 July 2006 (BST)

Pandora's Socks

So how many people have been "Buged" by Pandora's socks?

Right now I am stuck cockeyed as it were and want to complete it, but I can't because it doesn't recognize that I killed all four of my evil selves. I tried posting it on the bug page but it's not getting an answer, a response, or even an agknowledgement. -Stien 21:30, 10 July 2006 (BST)

Gee, that sucks Z0ltar 22:49, 14 July 2006 (BST)

I'm in the same boat. Has anyone heard ANYTHING about this? -- Elan 18:49, 17 July 2006 (BST)

Cute seals

Cute seals are plaguing our southern beaches. Tourists are avoiding the area causing lost revenue for mom and pop establishments. They just sit there looking up at you with those big, dark, cute puppy eyes. Are you going to allow these creatures to "out-cute" our domesticated four-legged friends? I say we take back our beaches! Club a cute baby seal for fun and profit! - Heyus2 20:56, 10 July 2006 (BST)

I only recently realised that IRL seals eat penguins. So this may be one way to defend the interior-dwelling Cities penguins from the threat of a giant seal invasion :) harvestbird 03:19, 11 July 2006 (BST)
Well, after a valiant campaign, the evil seals seem to have come out ahead. Alas, I have broken my last club over the soft, supple skull of a cute seal. Fight on, my fellow penguin lovers! Succeed where I have failed! These innocent-looking seals line the entire southern coast of the mainland; what possible explanation is there than a massive penguin-conquering invasion? Could we get a little help from the Powers That Be in the form of a massive oil spill off the southern coast (a little oil is good for the gulls and sharks)? We must not let these evil penguin-killing beach dwellers prosper! - Heyus2 07:21, 11 July 2006 (BST)
But.. but... they're so cute (and I've got better things to do than lose all my kudos)Density 20:58, 11 July 2006 (BST)
Last few times I clubbed seals, I didn't lose any Kudos -- Thog 21:05, 11 July 2006 (BST)
Well, until kudos actually mean something useful, I'm more than happy to help control the Cute Seal population on the southern shores. In fact, I should get kudos for performing this service to the community! - Heyus2 23:21, 11 July 2006 (BST)

Those Damn Tortoise

The Adolescent Tortoise attacks 2 times.
The Tortoise disarms you.
You lose a Phaser.
The disarm causes 10 points of damage.
The Adolescent Tortoise causes 10 points of damage.
The Tortoise disarms you.
You lose a Phaser.
The disarm causes 10 points of damage.
The Adolescent Tortoise causes 10 points of damage.
Now using Fists.

Ugh. Feeding a tortoise a pizza slice makes him vulnerable, but evidently for less than 10 minutes. Hbookbinder 01:40, 9 July 2006 (BST)

Martial arts is the way to go. Or hit him with a Snark, if you have one. -- Celane 00:49, 10 July 2006 (BST)
Odd. When I used martial arts against a tortoise, it still blocked my every attack. I take it that only works with pizza? macksting 19:29, 8 August 2006 (BST)
Yes. They'll still disarm you when eating (so Martial arts or Snark-fu is best) but they at least can't block your attacks -- Thog 20:41, 8 August 2006 (BST)

For the record, wearing a Pirate Hat does NOT give you a bonus against them. I am disappointed by this, and am wondering if it is intentional or if the Great Lords just didn't think of it.... --Dragon 05:00, 8 August 2006 (BST)

Midas Wand Atttack on Mirror Monster

Received the following when I attacked a Mirror Monster with the Midas Wand:

You attack the DM neerG nloC ekuD.
The ray bounces.
You turn the Duke Coln Green MD to gold.
You are turned into gold. That sucks.
Your Midas Wand has broken.
You lose a Midas Wand.
You gain 321 Bits of Gold.
The DM neerG nloC ekuD misses you.

Coln Green

Haha, interesting...I guess now we can call you the golden boy? Jatt 21:40, 7 July 2006 (BST)
If so, best keep away from bidets. macksting 20:59, 11 July 2006 (BST)

Space Elevator

Are the arriving times on wiki correct? I can't get out of it for few day's now XD I get up from bed ... it's on the way up ... then it goes up all day, and then it's 1AM and it's going down, then I go to sleep, wake up and the same thing ... I just can't get out from it. Is there other way to get down?? Bebe 11:00, 7 July 2006 (BST)

You've got 2 options really, get out at the top, and take a different down one, or if you've got the Horn_of_Heimdall, you can get to Valhalla from the elevator. MrFoo 12:02, 7 July 2006 (BST)
Brighthelm Rocks work in Space itself! Just tested that. Dojo Talismans, however, do not. I don't know if they work in elevators. macksting 20:17, 7 July 2006 (BST)

Roc Assault

Now I was moving through the interior looking for a healer. I clicked to move towards a guard post when a roc on a nearby crag swooped down and killed me... I don't think it was even on the side of the crag facing me but would have been once I moved. Have the beasties begun to act on their own accord or did it spawn between me and the guard post between me moving to where I was and me trying to move on? I didn't loose anything other than AP's and my pride, thanks to comprehensive insurance, but its still a little worrying that I moved through what I thought was an empty space, and died PlanetNiles 10:18, 7 July 2006 (BST)

The Roc may have spawned between when you saw the page and when you clicked. I guess we could add a "Eeek" option. Turning move and attack into different commands and stalling the move if there is a monster there. Elseware 11:41, 7 July 2006 (BST)
Would be most kind. Glad my fellow Team Snark member and Knight didn't have a significant loss... It would have been embarassing. ;) Say! Where's that Roc? We oughta kill it anyway. macksting 20:25, 7 July 2006 (BST)
Oh don't worry I have an Earth sword with its name on it... I can't remember its exact location; but as a rough guestimate it would be in the rough 60's east and mid 70's north. PlanetNiles 10:03, 8 July 2006 (BST)
Niles, you're a Knight! Use the Magic Ball! macksting 20:41, 9 July 2006 (BST)

Making Nails?

Can anyone explain to me the making of nails? I'm earth-aligned and have mined the ore, but now I'm at a loss. I "use" the ore, but seem to have no options beyond that. Also, how many nails could one expect from one copper ore? Any info is greatly appreciated. Leoth 16:45, 5 July 2006 (BST)

You get 10 nails per ore (it goes from ore -> bits of metal -> nails). You only need to equip the ore to get an option to smelt it. If you don't get the option, it's probably because you haven't learnt the skill yet? Have you initiated into all 4 alignments? I believe smelting is fire, but I'm not sure. Oh, and you probably need a box of matches too, but that's a freebie from one of the initiations. -- LittleHamster 16:50, 5 July 2006 (BST)
You need 4 units of charcoal to smelt each ore. It's a fire skill, so smelting is expensive for the earth aligned (20 AP). Smelting an ore will give you 100 bits of metal and each nail requires 10 bits of metal to make. Hendsch 16:59, 5 July 2006 (BST)
The relevent buttons should appear at the bottom of the screen, not the middle. macksting 20:21, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Excellent help, thank you all. It was the charcoal I lacked. All is now clear and I am enjoying my new career in metalurgy. Leoth 00:49, 6 July 2006 (BST)

Anybody want to kill some slime?

As soon as I get back some AP tonight I will be putting the socks on for the last evil. As I understand I cannot kill the slime myself. Any volunteers? I'll let you know where I am when I put them on, but I can summon anyone who wants to deal with my slime. (oh yeah, I almost forgot, if there's more than one volunteer I suppose it's gonna be first come first serve) vloodo 19:56, 4 July 2006 (BST)

I'd be happy to take care of your slime problem. Just let me know where to show up. There is probably plenty of interest. Post it to the wiki and make it a free for all Hbookbinder 20:19, 4 July 2006 (BST)
I have a certain taste for the slime myself. Please just let me know, or summon me if you're so inclined. -- Sertularian 22:04, 4 July 2006 (BST)
It's not easy to find so many free spaces, best thing to do is to wear pandora in one of the cities, then plenty of volunteers will show up ;) Bebe 10:09, 5 July 2006 (BST)
I thought about that, but then I figured the newer players won't be able to move around in the city as easily. Didn't know if it was bad etiquette or not. Anyway, the slime is all around 1E 7N, that is very close to Windy City. Time to take a break from reading! vloodo 15:47, 5 July 2006 (BST)
All Done! Hendsch 16:24, 5 July 2006 (BST)
Thank you! Hmm, I wonder how often people need their ooze taken care of... Would it warrant a new wiki page? vloodo 16:38, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Underground Monsters

Oh wow they drop the good ****!

You attack the Crocodile.
You cause 10 points of damage, and receive 400 experience.
You slay the Crocodile.
You gain 4 Merz Bows.
You gain 2 Arrows.
You gain 24 Gold Pieces.
You gain 4 Crocodile Scales.
You gain 4 Clean Bandages.

And previously a Mutant Giant Undine dropped 5 Mysterious Envelopes.

MrFoo 19:48, 1 July 2006 (BST)

Okay, I know my next destination. macksting 23:14, 1 July 2006 (BST)
Can't argue with 5 envelopes... Random4518 14:20, 2 July 2006 (BST)
Looks like it's only the North West Tunnels not the South West ones. Note that Giant monsters have more HP, and Mutant ones attack more times.. so tig ets quite difficult at times. MrFoo 09:06, 2 July 2006 (BST)

What next??

Hmmm... I've completed almost all of the quests in cities, all that's left is cloud gigant, which gives you weapon (big deal), talisman maker and ninja quest, which gives you punch (pfff), space that gives crystals. So, what next?? I can't make hard knocks to infinity, this is pointless. Big monster's have nothing motivating to drop.

Are there any quests that exsist but aren't in wiki yet, or are there any quest that're going to be added soon?? Cause I got a feeling that I just ended this game, and there's nothing more worth the AP and my time. Bebe 10:19, 1 July 2006 (BST)

I'm trying to get around to opening the 3rd underground area. I just need to come up with a couple more ideas. Until then, why not try and host a picnic or a free party? 10:49, 1 July 2006 (BST)
Simply, try to role play. -- 13:58, 2 July 2006 (BST)
Mining. Making stuff. Build your own quest! Summon an Earl to a trading post and give them 5 cucumber sandwiches. Become a wandering minstrel. Steal a hat and spend your days on the lonely ocean. Make more fine art.  ;) Many possibilities, all depending on what best floats your boat. I've been looking forward to getting most of the quests done so my character can relax a little, maybe become a tourist. -- Celane 16:39, 2 July 2006 (BST)
I've built my own quest, to become a Monk in the Thieves Forrest. I spend all my AP fighting Ninjas, theives and squirrells. IT's really lots of fun. More fun then I was having doing the standing stones. And did you really collect all the pips in the desert? IF you are so desert savy, why not try to become a tar merchant, slayign tars and selling them in the markets. I mean come on! This game has limitless possibilities.

You might want to learn to make potions... Figuring out what they do is going to be tricky! Elseware 17:04, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Gygax: This is What I Call Weird Luck.

The following occured in the Thieve's Forest.

You attack the Gygax.
You roll your die, and get a 4.
You cause 4 points of damage, and receive 24 experience.
Your D20 has broken.
You lose a D20.
The Gygax rolls a D20.
The Gygax causes 2 points of damage.
The Gygax claims your die is loaded, and smashes it!
You lose a D20.

Bummer. Still got 3, but bummer. Could be worse... I coulda been at 2 hit points. macksting 20:39, 28 June 2006 (BST)

So what do I get for it?
You attack the Gygax.
You roll your die, and get a 18.
You cause 12 points of damage, and receive 24 experience.
You slay the Gygax.
You gain a Basket.
You gain a Fountain Pen.
You gain a D12.
You gain 113 Gold Pieces.
You gain a D20.
You gain a D10.
You gain a D4.
Hot damn. A basket. :) ERK! Now, um, what do I do with it?! macksting 20:41, 28 June 2006 (BST)
Put one of each sandwich in it - it makes a picnic basket :) Syagrius 02:39, 29 June 2006 (BST)
How many kinds of sandwich are there, and what use is the picnic basket?macksting 19:26, 29 June 2006 (BST)
  • Cucumber sandwich
  • Bacon sandwich
  • Breakfast Club sandwich
  • Gorgan-zola sandwich
From Here -- Not sure what use the picnic basket is, except to Yogi Bear :) Syagrius 01:39, 30 June 2006 (BST)

Elf Arrows

On asking to train at the Dojo I've been asked to find an Elf Arrow. Reading the wiki suggests that Elf Arrows and Elf Bows no longer exist (and I can't find any way of making a hard and pointy stick). Anybody know what I need to do in order to make an Elf Arrow, or even if it's possible anymore? If they no longer exist, is this a bug?

Boojum 13:36, 28th June 2006 (BST)

Elf Arrows can be made from available items, at least they could fairly recently. I don't believe there is such a thing as an Elf Bow, however. -- Sertularian 13:43, 28 June 2006 (BST)
As far as I know they're still makable, just use ancient wood, rather than normal wood. And at least one Elf Bow does exist, in my inventory. They're kind of useless though given the rarity and price of ancient wood. MrFoo 14:27, 28 June 2006 (BST)
I'm not dead certain, but I'm quite certain, that if you have a Piece of Ancient Wood and select the Make a Pointy Stick button, it'll create a Hard and Pointy Stick. That's the first step in crafting an Elf Arrow. macksting 20:35, 28 June 2006 (BST)
Doc Mackie is correct; this worked for me today after Master Ralph made the same request. I used the tarot deck to find a treeman, then attacked him with copper nails until he expired. (Note that you lose the nail each time you make a successful hit.) It cost more AP to make the pointy stick and arrow than from an ordinary piece of wood --3x more than normal for an air-aligned player? harvestbird 08:45, 6 July 2006 (BST)
I have one i'm willing to trade ~ Sheyona


For the love of god can there be some restrictions on the use of glass swords and golden guns in duels. The number of times my characters have been killed by other players who use these weapons is absurd. When your entire dueling experience consists of breaking a fire talisman registering, and then coming back in 12hours to find you were killed on the first hit by a glass sword or golden gun, it gets obnoxious. I've now had characters killed by these weapons at least 10 times, and while I'm glad others are enjoying their higher hit multipliers I'm running out of fire talismen and wondering if there are any honorable duelists to be found.

Perhaps the next time you register, you should seek out an opponent immediately, and hide if you can't find one. And of course, get your own Glass Sword or Golden Gun. I think the Long Bow was in vogue when I dueled last, but that's probably because we didn't know any better in those days. Droll 04:09, 28 June 2006 (BST)
Heh - when I duelled, I thought you had to use the duelling sabre - mine broke on the first hit on my opponent. At first I was "aww, crap!", then I noticed I could use the other weapons as well, and that the alignment bonuses worked too. I think I dusted my opponent using a rusty sword (best I had at the time). I wonder if you could poison someone with a triffid sting or poison darts... Syagrius 04:15, 28 June 2006 (BST)
If the powerful weapons weren't allowed, players would have large advantages in duels if they simply have more hit points (Earth...) or better to-hit (Fire...). Heck, someone could get a summon south of the Desert, take a few Hard Knocks levels, and become nigh-unbeatable. Allowing these weapons is actually an equalizing factor--assuming both players have them, it's more a question of who manages to find another duelist first.
So what? Even if someone becomes near unbeatable by doing Hard Knocks or by having better alignment they can only win one duel. The way things currently are set up its just a big game of Mutually Assured Destruction as players use one hit weapons to kill their opponents. When it only takes you one hit to kill your opponent then you have taken all the fun out of the duel and wasted the other players time.
I had fun in my duel--specifically, in the stalking, in the chase. I don't see how the battle itself is more exciting if you're using conventional weapons, considering that the active player would always win (see Hendsch's comment below). --Dragon 18:49, 28 June 2006 (BST)
Also, if all you're doing is registering for the Duel and then signing off (as your message implies), "you deserve what you get"--the next duelist to register sees a nice target right at the Shrine, which is why you're getting killed so much. The best way to duel is to wander around and find someone with a black background first, then go register and come back and kill them. If everyone did that, however, there would be no dueling, so an alternate method is to register and then go proactively hunt other duelists, and find somewhere to hide before you run out of AP. If you just sit around, you're nothing but a target. Also, check out accelerated dueling... --Dragon 04:15, 28 June 2006 (BST)
Dragon, I check in fairly regularly but running into the woods to hide is an even worse solution since I would have even less control over when I get involved in a duel. By waiting around fire city I can insure that I have full HP, my best weapon is selected, I am not doing anything important like standing stones, and that I have full AP if I happen to see another duelist nearby. Hunting other players is only useful if I have some reason to believe that they won't be equiping their glass swords or golden guns, otherwise I'll just end up wasting a bunch of AP to get myself killed. I just want to experience an honorable duel, where there is actually some chance that either player could win. If everyone is going to just walk around with glass swords or golden guns then there really is no point to dueling. The way things are right now we might as well just eliminate the duel altogether and have the player turn in a glass sword to get their higher HP. Better yet we could create a fire character JoeDuel whose only purpose is to be cannon fodder for everyone who just wants to advance as quickly as possible, even if it is completely pointless.
If the defending (inactive) player is not using a one-hit-kill weapon, there is no way he will win the duel. Why would the attacking (active) player keep attacking if the next round will kill him? I fought the duel back in the long bow days and here's the play-by-play: Attack with long bow, travel to the healer, full heal, attack with long bow, full heal, attack with long bow. Victory! My opponent had the misfortune to be in a dragon pass 2 squares from a healer. Hendsch 17:42, 28 June 2006 (BST)
I would argue that you're in a better situation because it's harder to find you. You can keep your HP up with Healers and Clean Bandages, and you can go out on "raids" when you have AP and hide when you don't. Staying publicly visible is foolish and will get you killed--even if the other person isn't using a Glass Sword, they can use Hendsch's strategy, and you're just as dead. --Dragon 18:49, 28 June 2006 (BST)
I've just created a new Fire character called JoeDuellist. Watch out for him. -- LittleHamster 18:30, 28 June 2006 (BST)
Doesn't creating a single character for everyone to beat up on violate the spirit of the Duel even moreso than using powerful weapons? After all, if you know that powerful weapons are allowed, that becomes simply part of the nature of the Duel. Creating a character for target practice takes away the entire point of the Duel.... --Dragon 18:49, 28 June 2006 (BST)
In my opinion, "The Duel" is poorly named. The objective isn't to fight and win a duel honorably. The objective is to complete the quest, preferably with as little AP and HP loss as possible. You are in no way rewarded for fighting "honorably"; your reward is the same no matter how you win - but win you must. Perhaps a better name would be "The Hunted", for once you sign up, that's what you are. Of course, you're "The Hunter" as well, and the most dangerous prey is Human. If you're looking for an honorable fight with proper weapons at dawn, then good luck to you. If you want to complete this quest, though, don't stand around the fire shrine in a prissy feathered hat waiting to slap someone's face with a glove. You'll get shot, and quickly. -- Sertularian 18:48, 28 June 2006 (BST)
I think I'll let JoeDuellist die a early 0XP death. And yes, the Hunt is probably a better name for the quest. -- LittleHamster 20:43, 28 June 2006 (BST)
The Logan! On another note, maybe make a list for Drunken Duelists, for those who want to make it even crazier. Do something you'll regret in the morning! Like signing up for deathmatches! macksting 20:45, 28 June 2006 (BST)
There is a point to fighting honorable even if the active player has a supposed advantage. I've had duels where I was ran low on HP went to get a heal but ran out of AP and had to disengage. And as seemingly unlikely as it sounds you do on occasion meet another character who is in fact active. This isn't just a game of tag. Playing Tag is what the hats are for, the duel should be a challenge. I think people get too advancement focused, and too concerned about getting to the next level. As a result people run through the quests faster than they can be created, and the community overall suffers. If the attitude of everyone else is that the duel should just be over and done with as quickly as possible then I will create a JoeDuel character. At least that way players like myself can find some enjoyment in the duel, and everyone who just wants to get it over with can do so without ruining the experience for the rest of us.
Why not form a Duelling Society with a cool name? I admit to running through the duel as quickly as I could (one death, one victory) but then again, I loathe PVP with a fiery passion of doom, and considered it an unpleasant prereq for the Gauntlet (which was much more fun). -- Celane 05:45, 29 June 2006 (BST)
I got lucky. Fool attacked me with a mundane weapon and I splattered him/her with a golden gun. No deaths on my part. macksting 19:27, 29 June 2006 (BST)

Hint to all aspiring duellists: Cloaks and Clocks of Invisibility are likely invaluable. I just spotted a duellist tagged [Invisible] north of Earth City whilst hunting ghosts, and sure enough, when I de-equipped my Ghost Hunter Gear, he disappeared. Wish I'd thought of that... -- Celane 01:04, 13 July 2006 (BST)

I think it must've been the One Bling, as Cloaks and Clocks just make you invisible to (some) monsters. I could be wrong, tho. JohnnyRogers 07:11, 13 July 2006 (BST)
Well, I tested one of my own Invisibility Cloaks and I cannot see myself, so I don't think you need the One Bling. -- Celane 20:20, 13 July 2006 (BST)
You're right, it must've been the hat I was wearing that threw it off. JohnnyRogers 20:29, 13 July 2006 (BST)
In the same vein, don't fall asleep beside the road. I was strolling up to Fire City to register, and spotted a duellist sleeping in a ruin by the side of the road. Needless to say, I used a talisman to the shrine, and ran back to wipe him out with one blast from my GG. The original plan was to sleep in caves until I found my victim, but using the Cloak or Clock also sounds good. Dendrast 04:07, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Cities Game

First question. Are there any tutorials on the net, or any articles about making games in css, html etc. ? Or people just use basic knowledge when creating them? Second. What type of licence does cities use, I mean can one play with the game code, modify the css and use it on his website? I would really like to see the entire game code and play with it and modify to make something different, cities based. Some GMs allow that in online games, but I have no idea what elseware thinks about that. Bebe 16:46, 24 June 2006 (BST)

Probably unhelpful, but I use the official specifications for HTML, XHTML, and CSS at the W3C. They're good reference works, but not terribly good for learning from. You should probably know about them anyway. There's a bunch of stuff about learning CSS from the W3C, too.
Secondly, the code has no license terms, so nobody is permitted to copy it or modify it without express permission from Elseware. To date, he's only given that to a few other people in Southampton that he knows -- the Great Lords, basically. I can't speak definitively, but I'd say you're unlikely to get a copy to play with. Darksatanic 18:02, 24 June 2006 (BST)
If I make the code public then it'll mean a rash of similar games, but probably not as good. I don't see any reason to give the game code away. I would consider selling it. Although technichally my work probably owns it due to my contract and the fact I build it on their machines. Elseware 10:55, 28 June 2006 (BST)
If other people have contributed, you possibly don't have the sole copyright anyway. It's a shame you wouldn't consider GPLing it, since it currently relies, as far as I know, on Linux, Perl, Apache, and MySQL, all open source. On the other hand, aren't some of the game mechanics necessarily secret? --Hotchpotch 03:28, 30 June 2006 (BST)

Hmm... you know it is more likely that people with good knowlege of css will make some great upgrades to that game code, and also you'll be able to implement them. Hehe, I remember for example half life 2. After releasing game's source, some best graphics in the web and fans made incredible level's much better than the original.

But if you say that you don't own this game code, than nothing can be done. That answers my question. Bebe 14:14, 28 June 2006 (BST)

Help. Plums Needed

So, I don't do this often but...I desperately want to hand in the earth quest. Once I can mine, I can make copper axes, cut down enchanted woodsmen etc. etc. etc. BUT. I need the plums. I'm from Fire City, I make glass things. But I really don't want to pay 10k for them.

Anyone? Harlequinade Almost 5, Finally Friday 23 June 2006 (BST)

You should be glad it's actually available, given how popular plums are, and how had it is to grow them. You can earn some quicky cash by killing a few phoenixes. -- LittleHamster 16:16, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Yep, an air-aligned player only has a 20%-ish (according to the wiki) chance of growing plums. When I was temporarily air-aligned, my chances were more like 10%. Since it takes 5ap to plant, you're looking at about 50ap per 1 basket of plums, provided you don't get a beanstalk (+20ap to climb back down). Add to that, demand. Plums are necessary to make a potion of accuracy (increases to-hit - vital to all alignments except fire, since our to-hit is already very high). Newer players need the plums for the treasure hunt quest (2 of them, really). Those unfortunate enough to get a baby bear at the animal sanctuary need something like 12 baskets. Demand increases price. Scarcity increases price. Given those factors, 10k per basket isn't really that bad, except when you don't have the gold. Now, aside from all this, I didn't buy mine. I took a trip to monster island to find a mirror monster. Smacked it with an air wand (turning myself into an air-aligned character) and then grew my own plums. I had the gold to buy them, I'm just cheap (I also needed 13 baskets for my personal quest). Syagrius 16:26, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Money is cheap. Yeah, 10k sounds like a lot of money, but you can easily pick that up from selling things at the markets or from wacking pheonixes. Shoot, go out into the mountains and search for triffids and pheonixes. The pheonixes give you the cash right away, but you can get 1500bucks a sting from the triffids with no problem at all. Within a day or so. 10 Triffids or so (0-2 stings/triffid) and you've made 15k easy.Density 16:47, 23 June 2006 (BST)
All of this is assuming you're a bit more than an entry-level character (damage modifier higher than 1). If you're not a "Sir" or better, don't mess with the triffids unless you've got either a bow or antidote handy. They hit pretty hard and can poison (poison, contrary to the name, is not fatal). Get a phoenix above level 10, and you'll have your 10k in gold easily. Syagrius 16:53, 23 June 2006 (BST)
oh yeah, I guess anymore I just assume all players are dukes cause I'm a duke. Triffids go down easy that way. However I bought all the cucs and bread and garlic and such needed to become a duke as well, since I'm fire aligned. I still think money is cheap. Density
I get my plums by growing them in the Satanic Gardens in Bentnob. I haven't made a note of the probabilities but they seem to come up often enough to make it worthwhile. Plus I also got a lettuce last time I was there. GrumpyNick 20:01, 23 June 2006 (BST)
I was able to raise 50k for a midas wand in about 4 days (but it was a LOT of fun) by just preying on Eagles and Thunderbirds (I'm Earth Aligned). If you're Fire go after GNUs and Bulls. Water go after lions and maybe firefoxes?... I dunno but what with the gold and then selling all the excess supplies they provide- MasterPete
If you aren't a Duke you might join a cucumber party, i usually combine it with the stuff for the treasure hunt and the standing stones. My air character isn't a duke so you can contact him.--Schwarz 21:24, 23 June 2006 (BST)
What are you willing to trade? I fear I usually ask about 15K for plum jam, making most baskets of plums fairly valuable to me; however, trade is flexible, so if you've a cucumber, I'll trade the plums easy. macksting 23:19, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Append: Ancient Wood is also a very fine trade at this moment. I'm quite short of it, and killing masses of monsters in the forest with bare hands, loss of wands, broken bows, broken air swords, and wasted time have yielded nothing! For days! So yeah, on the offchance, if you have a piece of ancient wood, that'll do. macksting 23:31, 23 June 2006 (BST)
I have a great many cucumber slices, but no cucumber at the moment. Am willing to trade the slices if they're of use to you? Harlequinade
And thanks for all the advice. I will see if I can get my mitts on a midas wand. At the moment I'm earning an amount selling excess Tarot cards, maybe both will help :D. I should join a sandwich making group - I have a load of stuff for that too...I will document on the right page once I'm burnt this mornings AP!! Harlequinade
Sounds good, Harliquinade. It's the slices I need, and pre-sliced is as good as any. 'sides, means I know how many slices I'm getting! Here's hoping you're profiting more than I am. That said, where you wanna meet? I'll be glad to swing by some trading post; got a hat, but it's not that great of one. Got three baskets of plums; be glad to hand one over. Want them mashed? macksting 05:15, 25 June 2006 (BST)
Sir, I am shame faced. I bought a jar and am on the way to Bentob to try and get a glass sword. But I am in need of dough being made and will gladly trade some slices with you. Can you wait til I get back?
The need was more yours than mine. I was just looking to make a sandwich and sell it. Maybe I should look into getting more garlic anyway. But yes, more cucumber slices is a good thing, so sure, we'll meet later. When would ya like? macksting 23:05, 25 June 2006 (BST)

Repeating Bow complaint

Ok, so I just bought a repeating bow from Seb's there in Bentnob a couple of days ago. Today, I found a use for it, shooting arrows at gulls; but much to my dismay, it broke after the 7th shot! Not even one full volley for a whole lot of gold. If that's the "useful" life of one, the only reason to ever bother with it is to give to the Ninja dude. Arrows are cheaper to acquire (when used up my a merz bow).

This complaint brought to you by Duke Syagrius, the letter C, and the number 7.  ;) Syagrius 02:00, 23 June 2006 (BST)

The couple of Repeating Bows I bought all broke in the first volley of fire. I'm sure they have a higher breakage rate than normal bows. -- LittleHamster 07:35, 23 June 2006 (BST)

Yup, mine broke on the first attempt as well. I default to long bows if I can, they are affordable and last for a reasonable length of time compared to the rest. Tabitha R'al 08:24, 23 June 2006 (BST)
I've just taken a look at it, and the breakage parameter was ludicrously low. So I've tweaked it. They should be just a tad more robust now. Darksatanic 11:40, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Oh. I might just use one then. Seems like all my weapons break too quickly, but I must admit that I mostly steered away from bows. Might want to glance at Air Bows, too, but that's probably mostly partisanship on my part. macksting 23:21, 23 June 2006 (BST)
My first two Air Bows broke within 50 shots, but my third (also deceased, sadly) lasted quite a bit longer. It's a shame they're so insanely hard to find. 19:02, 27 June 2006 (BST)
Could you also have a look at elemental catanas? My first one gave me fairly good use, but the second time I made one I accidentally aligned an Earth Dragon to air before killing it, and got an Air Catana. Although I thought maybe I would trade it eventually, I used it on some big nasty and it broke on the second hit! Maybe it was just bad luck. Droll 15:51, 30 June 2006 (BST)
Those are OK. I looked at them a while ago when someone (LittleHamster, I think) complained about theirs on IRC. They're no more and no less breakable than most other weapons (sharp swords, aligned swords, catanas, etc). Darksatanic 16:08, 30 June 2006 (BST)

Small Bridge

Just found a 3 square bridge made of wood and shows on a map like 3 boats. It just goes in a right angle out to sea and seems to have no purpose. Anyone know what its all about? Its at 3E 50S

The Beggar 18:19, 21 June 2006 (BST)

I just found a Rickety Bridge at 10E, 10N, where there used to be a Lake. Has someone found a bridge building manual? Random4518 17:31, 26 June 2006 (BST)
Brilliant thought. I'd wondered about it. It was a Bridge before it was a Rickety Bridge, so I'm betting you're right. macksting 19:43, 27 June 2006 (BST)
Vashka heads down the Village Dungeon in search of Yrrigs.
Oh no, ADOM references too! MrFoo 20:55, 27 June 2006 (BST)
Celane prefers ganking Keethrax and sacrificing his Torc to Anssaria.

New food item?

I got a lettuce in the Satanic Gardens. Is this a new item? And if so, can I make a BLT sandwich ? GrumpyNick 16:37, 20 June 2006 (BST)

Not yet. But you will... Nick 17:19, 20 June 2006 (BST)
Gotta figure out how to stop the ghost from slapping you...

Potatos, Carrots and Onions have just shown up growing beans on roads too.

That's because they're route (root) vegetables. Nick 08:07, 21 June 2006 (BST)
(insert rimshot here) JohnnyRogers 10:22, 21 June 2006 (BST)

Bees are also yielding honey and beeswax. I've a honeycomb and two portions of beeswax. Any thoughts? macksting 20:37, 22 June 2006 (BST)

Try combining beeswax with string. Nick 09:58, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Short String, String, and Long String have no options for creating anything that uses a lump of beeswax. And trying to "use" a lump of beeswax whilst having all 3 kinds of string does nothing. (Except say "ding ding") MrFoo 10:57, 23 June 2006 (BST)
It would sometimes help if I didn't get ahead of myself - I haven't quite finished them yet, so they're still marked as under development. We're moving devel machines, so it'll probably be early next week before they're live. Nick 22:43, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Hmm... Beeswax and string - the traditional recipe for a bowstring. Syagrius 14:14, 23 June 2006 (BST)
Or a candle...JohnnyRogers 19:50, 23 June 2006 (BST)
By the gods, Sy, are you serious? On a mostly unrelated note, aren't we already able to make bows? macksting 23:22, 23 June 2006 (BST)
My good lady Domentzia has a longbow in our room, and to keep the bowstring from fraying, she refreshes it with a bit of beeswax (as per the bowmaker's instructions). On your unrelated note, I've never seen how to make a bow in the game. Syagrius 03:09, 24 June 2006 (BST)
Darnit, now I'm not sure which part I was asking if you're serious about. Good to know, though. Any pointers? Got a bow myself. Don't want it biting me too much, like it always does when I ignore it too long. macksting 05:18, 25 June 2006 (BST)

Speedboat Plans

Thanks very much to either Nick or Dr. Nick who stopped off at the Market in Windy city for giving me Speedboat Plans. Unfortunately, I didn't note whether it was Nick or Dr. Nick, so can whomever it was let me know so I can return your plans? Thanks :) --Philipjfry 18:07, 16 June 2006 (BST)

It was me. Don't worry about giving them back (I have another set) - just pass them on to someone else who needs them. Nick 10:36, 19 June 2006 (BST)
Thanks very much! Philipjfry 11:54, 19 June 2006 (BST)

Starship Troopers

After a happy day-and-a-half in the library with Lady Caroline's bookbag, I hied me to the Talisman Maker only to discover I hadn't read Starship Troopers.

Was I just unconsciously adverse to reading a novel that Paul Verhoeven got his movie-making hands on, or has it by chance disappeared from the bag?

En hiver 03:25, 16 June 2006 (BST)

It disappeared from the bag. I promised myself that the next time one went 'missing' I would withdraw the bag from circulation. So I did. However, your situation sucks so I'll happily lend you my spare copy. Caroline 19:23, 20 June 2006 (BST)
Thank you for the kind offer but I am sorted now--I picked up a copy at the market and then sold it on. If I'd thought about it I could have waited to see if it was missing from the bag and passed it on. Sorry--I got gold pieces in my eyes. En hiver 00:06, 21 June 2006 (BST)

Bebe Goggles Reloaded

Aloha :D

Since we have vacation, I have lots of free time now, so I could refresh bebe project and finish it and upgrade, I have lots of ideas and possibilities now, but I have to ask few questions before I start anything.

Q1: We have more lords now that are taking care of the game, so I think that it will be easier to get some help from them now. When I'll start to replace graphics I'll also need help in modifying game code a bit, so my question is, will I have some kind of support from lords or anybody else that has that knowledge?

None of us are paid to work on Cities -- it's all a purely volunteer thing. If there's a slack time at work (or if one of us is into the Cities groove at home), then you'll get a fast response. If it's a busy time, or we've got other commitments, then we won't reply for a while. There's also the time-zone issue to take into account. I don't know where you are, but we're all in the UK. That may affect response times, too. That's all a long-winded way of saying "no guarantees".
Ok, I get the point, it's the only game that I never get bored of, so I want to make it look good. Time zone isn't problem, I'm from Poland, it's only one hour difference. Bebe 19:13, 15 June 2006 (BST)

I ask Elseware and other lords to make every boat read different picture, I will upload those pictures as soon as it is done. Bebe 18:57, 21 June 2006 (BST)

I also ask to make an annoucement on main page, since it is not editable now: "Bebe style sheet is being updated now, so you can experience some bugs while wearing bebe goggles" (or something like that ;)) Bebe 18:57, 21 June 2006 (BST)

If you still mean the bottom menu as in the "Play | Me | Inventory" etc. stuff, it already uses its own class named "footer". --Pip 19:44, 21 June 2006 (BST)
Oh, that's great info, what about the tab that shows the text "you hit..., you get....., you attack etc."?Bebe 21:47, 21 June 2006 (BST)
The text box uses "textin". --Pip 00:26, 22 June 2006 (BST)
I can't make the bottom menu centered on page, what's the css line for it? And last thing, I already made some changes, does everyone see it like this:


Bebe 21:47, 21 June 2006 (BST)

This is what I get instead


If I reduce the size my fonts repeatedly, all the text will eventually fit in one line. The problem is that you have your background as one image, not three. This type of boxes is usually done with one image for the left side, one for the right, and one for the middle. The middle one is very small, eg 1-2px wide, and fills the entire text width background. Does anyone know if this can be done via pure CSS, or you need some html tables/divs? It's late here now, if no one has volunteered an answer, I'll have a look tomorrow. -- LittleHamster 22:31, 21 June 2006 (BST)

I also see it exactly like LittleHamster does. Also on a hunch I tried this and it messes up the page if you have no AP:
--Pip 00:26, 22 June 2006 (BST)

Repeating background image:

 background-image: http://www.wherever.com/image.jpg; 
 background-repeat: repeat-x;

Centering a div/span/whatever:

 margin-left: auto; 
 margin-right: auto;
 width: 400px; 

(IE6 may be stupid and do the wrong thing with the centering thing unfortunately.. as it's dumb.)

MrFoo 22:54, 21 June 2006 (BST)

I was also going to say the repeat thing but spent ages fiddling with other stuff ;).. Of course, then you'd need the 2 side images to be used as borders, which doesn't seem possible at the moment from what I've found. --Pip 00:26, 22 June 2006 (BST)
Well, if anybody knows the way it should be done, paste the correct code here and I'll play with it in game. I think it should be like this: three frames... one with seamles center image that can be streched to the text and two side frames with endings of this panel, but this need's modification in html not only css. Why the hell do you all have such big font?? Maybe I can set in css the font to have only one size no mather of the settings in browser?? Bebe 10:22, 22 June 2006 (BST)
Why the hell do you all have such big font?? - Because we are old and half-blind :) -- LittleHamster 10:36, 22 June 2006 (BST)
Maybe I can set in css the font to have only one size no mather of the settings in browser?? -- please, don't try this. People set their fonts so that they are readable for them. Websites that force specific font sizes on the user are really badly broken, bloody irritating, and fail most accessibility tests, too. Darksatanic 12:33, 22 June 2006 (BST)

Hmmm... How big can the letter's get? I mean, what's the maximum that people make, maybe I just have to make the menu a bit longer Bebe 14:19, 22 June 2006 (BST)

About the size of the screen. Each letter. (Although, arguably, if the user needs text that large, they probably won't care about how pretty your graphics are). Darksatanic 14:27, 22 June 2006 (BST)
Well that end's my problem then ... I just viewed few sites with best graphics I saw and whenever I changed font size, they all messed up (doesn't change fact that they're still most popular on the net). It's hard to make it compatible in html and impossible in css, so you'll have to stick to old ones. I have my own web page and it has blocked font size, and no one ever complained to me about that. I didn't even know about that option. You just have to choose between good look and compatibility an I see that you just did. I guess that end's my work. Bebe 15:35, 22 June 2006 (BST)
Bebe, I really like your new theme. I agree with Darksatanic that it's bad to set a fix font size in css. (I hate web sites that have their default font set way too small). However, I disagree that there'll be a need to scale the font size to as large as one letter per screen. There's a reasonable range where people will have their fonts set. I know the page generation code in Cities is complicated, and it's unlikely you'll get a extra few divs added to the html page. Btw, do you notice that if you resize your browser the text split into two lines as well? A compromise would be to make the background larger and add font-size: smaller to div.footer. (Btw, I measured mine and it's 846px long, but it can be smaller if you user smaller to font-size). If people set their font size bigger than the largest you expect, or make their browser window smaller, then it'll just spill over like the screenshots above. It's not pretty, but HTML+CSS is not PDF or images. -- LittleHamster 20:01, 22 June 2006 (BST)

When I started to make graphics I thought that in css you can make background of a table strech to it's size like in html, but it turned out impossible. If I make the tables larger it will definately annoy people that have good sight and don't wear glasses (it would annoy me). Think about it like that. I can't make fine graphics for 'half-blind people', then why other people have to pay for it? I think the best way is to make one more css named bebeinterface.css and bebe goggles mk.2 so interface will be another option. What lords think about that? Bebe 11:27, 23 June 2006 (BST)

CSS backgrounds don't stretch, they repeat:

div.footer {  
   background-image: url(smallPic.jpg); 
   background-repeat: repeat; }

So you can indeed achieve the effect you want. The only thing missing at the moment is the extra divs you need for the left and right sides:

div.footer.left {
   background-image: url(leftside.jpg);
   background-repeat: no-repeat;
   background-position: top left; }

-- LittleHamster 15:40, 23 June 2006 (BST)

Support for Bebe!

Looking at that sample on the Bebe goggles page, I am very impressed. Quality work like that deserves to be a priority for the game, I think. It adds such a huge amount of style/class/ and would give the game a more polished, professional look. I am behind this project. Go Bebe go!--Hamelin 16:40, 19 June 2006 (BST)
Hear, hear! To reiterate my post here, I would be lost without my Bebe Goggles. Go, Bebe go! -- Sertularian 17:02, 19 June 2006 (BST)
I wear my bebe goggles all the time - I was disappointed when I had to take them off to use the reading glasses. I like the bebe graphics very much! Syagrius 17:17, 19 June 2006 (BST)
I wear mine all the time too. I was very disappointed that I have to take them off while in the North to wear the snow goggles/shades. Can any of the admins make Bebe SnowGoggles or Bebe Shades available? -- LittleHamster 20:46, 19 June 2006 (BST)
Bebe, basicly, rocks. Someone poke Elseware awake or something so we can get this stuff implemented. PlanetNiles 11:10, 20 June 2006 (BST)
Is it just me or has the grass texture changed? PlanetNiles 11:15, 20 June 2006 (BST)
I like the new grass texture. I haven't noticed any change in loading the graphics. Syagrius 14:17, 20 June 2006 (BST)
I am in the Great Desert and the linking squares between deserts have changed too. I think they are roads. It's looking very odd. -- LittleHamster 22:21, 20 June 2006 (BST)
It's my mistake :P It's fixed now I think. Bebe 22:38, 20 June 2006 (BST)

Oh my goodness... I took off my Bebe Goggles a few days ago to put on Beer Goggles, and when I took off the Beer Goggles I forgot to put the Bebe's back on. So I put them on now... and everything's magical! Freakin' cool! macksting 20:39, 22 June 2006 (BST)

Not to put too fine a point on it... but isn't it about time to phase out the Bebe goggles and phase in Bebe's artwork as standard? Before the Cities test server, it made perfect sense to have the graphical upgrade uptional: if some change to Bebe's graphics or css broke the display or game somehow, you could remove the goggles and play on. But now that there's a test server, the game be better served by making the improved graphics standard. With a little luck, better *standard* graphics (instead of semi-secret better graphics) would gather more users, and players no longer would have to make the choice between better graphics or keeping the Sacked Snark. IMHO, better graphics should not be a min/max decision against game mechanics. PotatoEngineer 05:11, 23 June 2006 (BST)

Not to be a jerk about it or anything (as though I can help myself), but I, for one, prefer the original graphics. The Bebe artwork really is beautiful but for everyday playing I like the simplistic look of Cities Original Style. I have a pair of goggles that I put on now and then to check it out, but walking around with them on makes the game look a bit too busy for my taste. Please don't make them manditory. JohnnyRogers 07:56, 23 June 2006 (BST)
It's like that because you are used to the old graphics that are very simple, so the new ones make you confused, but it's a matter of few days to get used to new ones and then all looks better. New users will have no problem with that because they will start with my graphics from the begining... Hmm.. but in my opinion, the better graphics should be default and the original should be an option because every game is built this way. Bebe 10:45, 23 June 2006 (BST)
I'm not confused, it's not a matter of getting used to them, and thinking that it looks better is a matter of opinion. I feel bad for saying anything about this, and I'm really not trying to put you down or anything, but it's 1) too busy for my minimalist tastes, and 2) too pastel for me. I may be the only one who feels like this, but I'm willing to bet I'm not. You think it should be default because since you made it you feel like it looks better, but just know that not everyone shares your aesthetic. JohnnyRogers 19:46, 23 June 2006 (BST)

That is why you have choice. It's impossible to satisfy everyone. But this is support bebe topic and you are doing the opposite thing. Bebe 21:34, 23 June 2006 (BST)

Personally, while I like having the choice, it is somewhat disappointing to have to switch away from your goggles for various functions. I suppose I might need to cheat and put in the plug-in for the browser when I'm in goggless situations.
Likewise, the choice is rather nice to have, I must admit; therefore, I'd simply make the Bebe Goggles a default item to all players at character start, right in their inventory. Dunno what it is? Hit the Docs. :) macksting 23:25, 23 June 2006 (BST)
I'm not attacking you or your art, Bebe, and IMHO giving everyone a pair of goggles would be a good thing, making it the default would not. Just my $0.02, YMMV, etc, etc, etc. JohnnyRogers 01:32, 24 June 2006 (BST)
Hmm... maybe the plugin for browser should be allowed and uploaded on wiki, it's not cheating. No bebe goggles, just this plugin so everyone could choose graphics and not lose functionality. But we are just talking about it and we don't even know if lords will do anything at all. Bebe 08:28, 24 June 2006 (BST)
It's not that it's cheating - if it works the way I think it does, it will double the hits on the server. My work webserver runs 200 websites and most of its load comes from cities! Elseware 12:08, 24 June 2006 (BST)
We're probably going to make the new graphics the default for new players, and give all characters the option of which to display (much like the "display width" option). We've got a few more pressing things to work on at the moment though, like a new server. Darksatanic 10:17, 24 June 2006 (BST)

Actually, my inclination is to make them equal footing. Maybe add a config screen where you can pick your "skin", and make it an option in the character creation so new users understand there is more than one format. I am not so keen on pastel cities, but I think giving people the choice is the best of possible worlds. Anybody else want to have a pet css? I'm happy to create a couple more if people want. Elseware 12:06, 24 June 2006 (BST)

Can I put myself in for one? I'd like to make a realistic one. The Beggar 18:51, 27 June 2006 (BST)

I still have some textures to make, but when this is over I could make another skin with non pastel ones. But maybe later. Bebe 13:21, 24 June 2006 (BST)

On the subject of pastel Cities - to my eyes, the colors for water and ice alignments are too close together. (This caused me a bit of confusion when facing a King Penguin.) -- Sertularian 15:31, 24 June 2006 (BST)

Cities. In 3D! (ish)

Whilst working on my Java cities map, I realised I coudl probably make a good guess at what the terrain would be like, if hills and valleys actually made a difference to the height of the surrounding areas. So I did a bit of fiddling, and here is an image of the cities area, plus a height-map of the same area. White = high, dark grey = low, and black is empty, or unknown.

The 4 cities and elevations

MrFoo 13:37, 14 June 2006 (BST)

As finally I get it. VERY COOL! A topographic map of the Four Cities area only, I assume? How'd you put the data together, exactly?

So on that note, is there any chance you could make a higher resolution image? macksting 22:35, 15 June 2006 (BST)

Click on it, and you'll get a full size version. As for how I put it together well I just went throuhh every map square, and if it was a hill, valley, mountain or crag, I added or subtracted to that square's height, and then did the same to surrounding squares (but lower values further away, natch) Took a bit of fiddling to find values that provided some sort of smooth map, but it kinda works. MrFoo 23:53, 15 June 2006 (BST)
You know it's been a while since I monkeyed around with VRML but with your numbers an actual 3d map could be generated... quite easily with pretty much any 3d modeling software. Skinning it would be the hard part ;) PlanetNiles 10:37, 16 June 2006 (BST)
Who needs VRML when you can do OpenGL in Java? 3D cities map (Note: needs Java 1.4, non retarded video card drivers etc etc.. may cause death, diabetes, dementia and fungal infections etc etc) MrFoo 14:20, 16 June 2006 (BST)
Oooh pretty PlanetNiles 20:04, 16 June 2006 (BST)

Silent as the grave

well, think about it, we have graveyards but no graves.... perhaps corpses should rockup in the grave yards... Zoological 11:53, 13 June 2006 (BST)

Yeah, that's worth it

 You attack the Kraken.
 You cause 2658 points of damage, and receive 39870 experience.
 You lose a Glass Sword.
 Your glass sword shatters!
 You slay the Kraken.
 You gain 25 Saltpetre Measures.
 You gain a Plan for a Boat.
 Now using Fists.

50,000 HP, a few Golden Guns and a Glass Sword. I'm actually on a boat... so the plans are useless. -frizzi

Of course, not really 50,000 AP. How many days? Sharks are even less worthwhile.
Frankly, I don't kill large monsters for the treasure; I kill them for the fun and the EXP. macksting 20:48, 12 June 2006 (BST)
Meant HP... lol. Fixed that. Also, it just took me a few minutes to do... with all the golden guns I had that I wasn't using anyway... I had just made a large purchase so didn't have that much gold anyway... about 8000 to start... but when a golden gun breaks, it gives you gold so... right now I'm working on another one, but don't have any golden guns or glass swords on me. And I just used the last of the arrows from my long bow :(. I calculated that it would take about 500 ap with no misses... I've already dib wanded... so maybe I should make a trip to brighthelm??? -frizzi
Yeah, sure, whatever. Brighthelm is usually worth the bother if you have some cash. Where else you gonna get spare buckets? macksting 18:27, 16 June 2006 (BST)

Standing Stones

I put a mention of this on the Requests for Information page, but since I don't really read that page very often, I think it's safe to assume there are other people who don't either :) Anyway, here we go:

If you have done any of the Standing Stones, and either remember or have a record of one of the items you need to offer, at which stone, at which time, or if you know your Horoscope Sign, please stop by User:Stevie-O/StonesInfo and fill in some information :) Thanks in advance! Stevie-O 21:31, 11 June 2006 (BST)

Any reason for the new page, rather than using one of the existing pages? --Dragon 21:42, 11 June 2006 (BST)

Plowed Fields

So what's the deal with plowing now? I just plowed three fields with my APs to burn while I wait for somebody to bring me some beans. Can you only plow fields? What are the benefits of planting in one? 09:08, 11 June 2006 (BST)

You plow the fields. You plant ten beans (there will be an option if you have ten beans in your inventory) and you watch the field grow. After awhile you'll be told if anything has grown in the "harvest" option once it has appeared. Harvesting seems to cost ten AP, regardless of how much you harvest. Then you wait and repeat the process. As far as I've seen, yes, you can only use this new farm feature in the squares labelled as "fields." And anyone can plow and sow in fields. So if you're an earth character and you have a fire friend, it might be advisable for you to plant one of his fields and he to you, so you can get different crops. Ade 11:09, 11 June 2006 (BST)

Spawning Stabilized

Has anyone else noticed that monster spawning seems to be fixed. I've noticed Lepricauns and Perky Norx reappearing in the same place after I kill them. DWE 03:17, 10 June 2006 (BST)

Define "fixed." I wasn't aware that it was broken in the first place. Spawning is supposed to be random (most of the time--of course there are exceptions like Dragon Spires). I have noticed what might have been a few tweaks to monster spawn rates (although I might be imagining it), but if what you notice isn't just coincidence and spawning is, in fact, no longer random, then I'd consider that to be a bug. --Dragon 03:39, 10 June 2006 (BST)
Fixed as in fixed point. I'm just wondering if what I am seeing is more than coincidence.
Lepricauns would be a good experimental animal for determining this. All we need is one kind soul with a lot of Fleece and the ability to card and weave it; that'll fill up the time between spawnings, and s/he'll be making a killing (hehe) on the Lepricauns if they pop up in the same place again. If not... then well, s/he's just disproven the point, I guess.
I'm not volunteering. macksting 21:54, 11 June 2006 (BST)
I killed a Leprahcaun and waited. A undine spawned in its place. vloodo 20:26, 12 June 2006 (BST)
I noticed a lepricaun spawning in the same place near the fair while waiting for the stoners a few days ago. IT kept popping up by the casino. I thought it was maybe just lucky.

A Request for Summons

Greetings, this is Erinne, i was wondering if someone could summon me to bentknob so i can complete the Roc Soc Pub Crawl. I have no money, but am willing to pay woth weapons, food, accessories, wands or stones. Thank you my good folks, and it may be good, if anyone does summon me to write it here, so no one else does. 10:05, 9 June 2006 (BST)


Down with Clark Kent!

An evil player (Superman?) has donned a Disguise Kit, and while going by the name Clark Kent, showed up at the Park Bench and gave everyone there a Tribble. Let's get out our Kudos and put him to -13! And can somebody get him a Naughty Hat?

Clark took a stay in the monastery during this time. During that he received the following:
 Duke Stevie-O MD has dis'ed you.
 They said: "Giving away tribbles? You bastard."
 Earl Alan Jordan MD has dis'ed you.
 They said: "Don't foist tribbles off on strangers!"
 Earl Aer-O MD has dis'ed you.
 They said: ""
 Earl BlueFlame MD has dis'ed you.
 They said: "Don't foist tribbles off on strangers!"
 The Librarian has dis'ed you.
 They said: ""
Funny thing is, there may be more than one of us.

Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, there may have been a Tribble or two donated to the KOT. Where do those donations end up?

Stevie-O 04:08, 9 June 2006 (BST)

currently over 200 tribbles in the KOoT store room. Well, thats the trouble with them. 15:42, 9 June 2006 (BST)

I'd strongly consider getting some brave soul to transfer all Tribbles to some disposal medium. Any thoughts? Pay is available. macksting 21:00, 9 June 2006 (BST)
Not that I'm volunteering, but it seems to me if someone handed over all his/her food to another party, he/she could just cart all the buggers over to the dump and not be any worse for wear. -- Thog 21:12, 9 June 2006 (BST)
S'truth. Is there anywhere better to put them? macksting 21:14, 9 June 2006 (BST)
If you put them in the dump someone can just pick them up and toss them back on some poor sucker(s) at a Trading Post. Stuff them up for sale at the markets for some high-but-not-astronomical price and you put those Tribbles more or less out of circulation, plus you also know who has them if/when they're purchased. -- Celane 21:39, 9 June 2006 (BST)
What if someone made a throwaway account intended to recieve tribbles at a trading post? That'd basically remove them from the game. As an alternative, you could probably destroy tribbles by attacking tar monsters or ninjas with them. Random4518 03:58, 10 June 2006 (BST)
So we should designate one Baby Tar as our Dump Site Tar Monster and just shuffle all our tribbles into it! 'Cause after all, it's not gonna die any time soon. On the bright side, if some strange guy decides to kill the bugger, he won't get any tribbles for it! macksting 21:51, 11 June 2006 (BST)
We should give them to this guy. (Not really.) --Dragon 04:14, 10 June 2006 (BST)

Give them to me! I collect Tribbles (I have 346). I'm on the elevator down from space now, but I'll show up at the park bench once I'm down (10PM game time?). Hendsch 14:07, 12 June 2006 (BST)

If I end up with a few, I'll toss them in the garbage heap and arrange a meet with you? macksting 22:38, 15 June 2006 (BST)

A New Advancement in Tribble Disposal?

There seems to be an implication that, using Needles (which can be made with bits of iron, easily gleaned from the use of Rusty Swords in sufficient numbers to make quite a lot of them), one can turn Tribble Pelts into a Fur Coat. This showed up on a wiki page on my Watchlist, the Weapons page in fact. If that's the case, I daresay we'd best not designate a Tar Baby for disposal. The questions which spring to mind are:

  • How do we kill them?
  • Should we organize a player equipped with no food items or consumables as a service officer for these purposes?
  • Is this real?

macksting 20:30, 28 June 2006 (BST)

It's real, and build.xml can confirm it (search for TribbleCoat). And it seems quite a few people have noticed it too. When I started making my Fur Coat a couple of weeks ago, there were 350+ Tribbles in the dump. Now, according to BotFeeds#Earth_City_Dump_Feeds, there are none. It only takes 2AP (fire) to turn a tribble into a pelt, effectively rendering the furry pet harmless. By the way, the fur coat is warm and luxurious. -- LittleHamster 20:41, 28 June 2006 (BST)

Where did all the stoners go?

I lookin got get some fags, but I can't find a stoner. I've been at the festival for 2 days! Any sightings? 16:34, 8 June 2006 (BST)

I think they take a while to spawn. Try killing some Hippies to clear some space. - Isambard 16:50, 8 June 2006 (BST)
They are also extremely easy to kill. I had one of my characters over there a few days ago and decimated the groundborn population. DWE 17:59, 8 June 2006 (BST)
I'm killing hippies and everything else thats in the fair grounds. I will continue to wait.. 20:07, 8 June 2006 (BST)
On the bright side, you're killing hippies. ...wait, no, that's not good, but... ah, whatever. Go forth and kill hippies, and see if stoners take their place. Seems to be that's how it works in the real world. macksting 20:08, 8 June 2006 (BST)

North-East and South-East tunnels

Do they exist ?? I've completed both North-West and South-West tunnels and I got nothing from it. Should I look for east ones or it's just a waste of ap now ?? Bebe 15:51, 8 June 2006 (BST)

Unless they opened up and people are keeping the news to themselves, the tunnels aren't available yet. Oh, and I presume you dropped talsimans into each altar. I suspect something will happen once all four have been primed. -- Thog 15:58, 8 June 2006 (BST)
I could only find the entrance to Tokyo4 but no other caverns in the north west; any clues to the caves down? PlanetNiles 16:18, 8 June 2006 (BST)
Have you looked at 1E 107N? --Dragon 16:28, 8 June 2006 (BST)
Heh, yeah first my hands disapear for second, then arms and legs, guess its will be torso in south-east, head in north-east and game over :D:D:D:D Bebe 16:43, 8 June 2006 (BST)

A tisket, a tasket...

...where in Cities can I find a basket? Caroline 19:37, 7 June 2006 (BST)

monster drop. 19:47, 7 June 2006 (BST) (there's a bull at 1,-6 which has the only existing one).
I got it. Trades? -baby sophia
Dou you still have it? I'll come back from Holiday Island and have a lovely picnic. What do you want for it? Caroline 10:20, 9 June 2006 (BST)
DOH! e.bstan got it. Sorry.

We plough the fields and scatter...

...the good seed on the land. How are people getting on with working out the new plowshare stuff? I'm currently standing in some lovely new terrain. Vashka 13:45, 7 June 2006 (BST)

I've used my plowshare.. now just waiting for more AP. Which will take a while. Arse. MrFoo 13:53, 7 June 2006 (BST)

Just found a plot of plowed and planted land near Windy City. Apparantly it's growing Grapes. I'm so gonna harvest it. \m/ Kitty 14:03, 7 June 2006 (BST)

Did you harvest that crop Kitty? I am just wondering if anyone can harvest anyone else's crop. vloodo 18:08, 8 June 2006 (BST)

Hmm. How do you plant anything? I've got my nice plowed field, but noting I have appears to be plantable. Not magic beans, olives, garlic, hops , sloe, mushrooms or coffee beans. MrFoo 15:36, 7 June 2006 (BST)

When I recovered from negative APness after plowing, I found myself standing on a 'Planted Field', with no options for doing anything with either magic beans or plowshares. The collective wisdom from IRC advised me that while I was out of AP, someone sowed magic beans in my plowed field. The collective wisdom also informed me that you need 10 magic beans for planting. -- LittleHamster 17:00, 7 June 2006 (BST)
That worked for me. 10 magic beans. How long does it take for the plants to grow?-baby sophia
Er...a few hours. I'm not being very scientific about this. But I now have a crop of one cucumber, and the option to harvest it. I'm assuming that more will grow if I don't. Vashka 17:09, 7 June 2006 (BST)
they could also start to rot on the vine. What alignment are you? Are the crops going to follow alignment? Wheat/earth, cucumber/water, coffee/fire, grapes/air or whatever it is?-baby sophia
what do you use to harvest?
You just harvest; I just harvested my first cucumber and the field reverted to "planted". I await with baited breath for further developments.
You get a 'Harvest (10AP)' button. And what you grow seems to be dependent on your alignment. My firey duke has a single sunflower in her field. And did anyone notice that the background image changes after you harvest? Do you think there's a state in planted fields that count how many times you've harvested? -- LittleHamster 20:13, 7 June 2006 (BST)
Just harvested 6 cucumbers so I'm guessing that may be so. PlanetNiles 13:39, 8 June 2006 (BST)
I harvested my wheat twice (first time 3, second time 4) and the field still comes up as "Planted field". I'm waiting to see if it will grow past 10 sheaves of wheat. vloodo 15:09, 8 June 2006 (BST)
It seems you can harvest more than 10 items in one field (maybe it's endless?). I just harvested my 12th sheaf of wheat and the field is still planted. It looks like for 40 AP you can create a square that continuously grows a certain thing and anyone, of any alignment can harvest it. Sweet. vloodo 04:35, 9 June 2006 (BST)
I disagree. Not sweet. It's also not really 40AP when you factor in getting the Magic Beans, and unless you continuously harvest, you might get your crops nicked. But, if you continuously harvest, you're spending 10AP per cucumber/sunflower/wheat/whatever which is twice what simple planting in a field costs. I suppose I could try to find a field somewhere a bit quieter, but still...get orf moi laaaaaand --Hotchpotch 05:07, 9 June 2006 (BST)
Well, the way I see it, it makes it a lot easier for a player to get food that's not his alignment. I know I was looking for grapes like mad some time ago, and I couldn't find them anywhere. Also, you only plant 10 magic beans and you get unlimited yield out of that. Sure, it can be a problem that people steal your crops, but do you really care as long as you do it to others? If everyone harvests only when there's, let's say, at least 10 crops on the plot then it's all ok. You don't need to spend AP for new things to grow, just real life time, in which you can go do something else with your AP. I dunno, I still really like the idea. vloodo 15:51, 9 June 2006 (BST)
Wow, you get multiples? I harvested three times, each time for 1 single sunflower. -- LittleHamster 15:20, 8 June 2006 (BST)
If you wait, the field will grow more. I left my field overnight, and there were 4 sunflowers waiting to be harvested this morning. MrFoo 15:37, 8 June 2006 (BST)

Has anybody gotten Plums, Coffee, or Olives from a field? JohnnyRogers 21:54, 8 June 2006 (BST)

Watch your crops ppl, I just swiped someone's cucumbers :)

Maybe I should get in on this. I've been collecting beans for the purpose. Of course, now I'm imagining pounding a Daemonic Sword into a Daemonic Plowshare to create a Satanic Planted Field. macksting 21:04, 9 June 2006 (BST)
I don't seem to have a "Beat into Daemonic Plowshare" button on my Daemonic Sword. That would be sweet, though! -- Sertularian 01:00, 10 June 2006 (BST)

I'd like to suggest a Public Planted Fields Locations page. - Isambard 01:19, 10 June 2006 (BST)

I've created a page on the pertinent topic of cultivation. Fill in the gaps, please. --Hotchpotch 17:54, 11 June 2006 (BST)

A humble request for a summons

Are you currently on an island that has mirror monsters among its population? If so, I would like a summons. My alignment was changed in a duel, and I would like to change it back. I'm happy to pay you with a sheaf of wheat once I've returned to earth and can grow it. En hiver 07:51, 6 June 2006 (BST)

It's a bit of a hike, but Monster Island (which is infested with Mirror Monsters) is technically a peninsula, and can be reached on foot. It's west of Brighthelm. -- Sertularian 11:49, 6 June 2006 (BST)
I can give you a summon to the School of Hard Knocks. It's very very close to the Monster Island. I'm studying there at the moment and will be able summon you in 2 hours. Don't worry about the wheat. There's no trading post nearby anyway. -- LittleHamster 12:46, 6 June 2006 (BST)
I was gonna say, Sert, if he's recently past dueling, he may be a few XP shy of desert-crossing. macksting 19:58, 6 June 2006 (BST)

Thank you gentlemen, all. Hamster, if you are still at the School I would be more than happy to be summoned there. (And Mackie, while I can technically enter the desert, what would happen to me next would be a sad story in not being able to find safe paths.)

I've summoned En hiver to the School. Hopefully, she can find her way safely to a Mirror Monster on Monster Island. Word of advice - hit the mirror monster twice with your wand. This way you'll be flipped back to the correct direction. Good luck.-- LittleHamster 21:50, 6 June 2006 (BST)

Many happy thank yous, sir (and kudos); I will make my merry way. En hiver 00:14, 7 June 2006 (BST)

Cities Photo Contest

When will this be decided? Its been there since April and it says its to be judged monthly. Unless I have missed something, I dont think it has. -- Mad Frank 09:07, 5th June 2006 (BST)

Nothing has happened with the Joke Contest either. Kaos Dragon 17:24, 5 June 2006 (BST)
yup - we're rubbish. For the joke contest - if someone wants to take over promoting it and collecting some votes, then I'll award a prize, but I don't really want to admin it. 17:56, 7 June 2006 (BST)

Weapon Accuracy??

One of my chars, an Air Earl, has a base to-hit of 70%. yet, i spent the better part of 200 AP swinging through air for the last two days. ie. it took me 17 AP to register my first hit on a phoenix while holding a Knife (80%) and i've been having this kinda of streaks lately. take me an average of 8 AP to register the first hit (in the past 2 days)... not exactly what you would expect with a 70% or 80% to-hit. has something been changed (say, the random number generator)? or am i just a statistical anomaly (w/ a 70% accuracy, the chance of me wasting 17 AP straight is gotta be less than 1 in a billion). --Dragoon 21:06, 1 June 2006 (BST)

It sounds like you're just lucky. Missing 17 straight AP, with an 80% accuracy, is still a 2.25% chance (.8^17). It's gotta happen to somebody, and today, that somebody is you. Now you, too, have learned to curse the Random Number God. PotatoEngineer 21:34, 1 June 2006 (BST)
hmm... if my memory serves me correctly, in a geometric distribution, .8^17 or 2.25% is the success rate of 17 consecutive "hits". so i think the failure rate of 17 consecutive "misses" should be (1-.8)^17 or 1.31e-10% (less than a billionth). man, i only wish i could hit this jackpot last night when the power ball was drawing $38 mil ^_^ --Dragoon 22:04, 1 June 2006 (BST)
Oops. Math skills of a college grad; word-problem skills of an elementary student. PotatoEngineer 03:34, 3 June 2006 (BST)
I will say this is bizarre and might mean it's time to look into the coding. In the meantime, I also recommend putting together a Potion of Accuracy; they're permanent, and it sounds like you've never made one so far. Since you're capable of growing the plums and catching the flying fish required, to say nothing of probably being able to make the vial, I highly recommend it; perhaps, coding aside, requiring an update of your to-hit % will fix the problem for you. macksting 22:11, 1 June 2006 (BST)
will do that. thanks for the advice. i just thought it was kinda strange that i went through such a long period (200AP worth) of accuracy depression. btw, I've planned ~30 magic beans in the "fields" terrain so far and harvested a single bastket of plum from the ordeal (a far cry from the 20% chance claimed on the beanstable page). on an unrelated note, i have looted 2 golden guns, 2 glass swords, 2 daemonic letter openers off 21 small dragon corpses (not too shabby, i guess). so in other words, this could be karma... grrr --Dragoon 22:29, 1 June 2006 (BST)
I've often wondered if the random number generator is doing something odd (like only rerolling every so often). It's fairly common that I get stretches of failures (8 in a row with a 90% to hit?) and I saw the same thing when I did some planting recently as an air character (15 Bunches of Grapes with no Plums at all???). Sometimes stepping away for a minute or so seems to resolve things, but not always. Do I also have really bad luck, or could this be a RNG optimization gone arwy? -- Thog 22:36, 1 June 2006 (BST)
I've noticed that missing is "streaky" as well. If I miss on the first hit (which should happen 10% of the time with fists, martial arts, or a wand of anger), it's (a lot) better than 50/50 that I'll miss on the next one, too. Often, I'll miss 5 or 6 times in a row. Count another vote for looking into the coding... -- Sertularian 23:31, 1 June 2006 (BST)
And I as well, with a to-hit of 95%, if I miss the first time, chances are I'll miss the next 2 times at least. Also, I'll grow 20+ grapes in a row with no plums. Then, if I wait a day or so, I'll grow a plum for every 2 grapes. Sounds like a RNG thing to me... Syagrius 02:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Well, i have a base to-hit accuracy of 190% and i miss as well, while holding a to-hit 90% weapon. So what more can i say. e.bstan 05:48, 2 June 2006 (BST)
I've sometimes wondered if, since the coding used to provide a chance of failure in growing anything, the chance of growing plums didn't increase and the chance of growing nothing was replaced with grapes. macksting 21:48, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Or beanstalks.  :/ Celane 22:10, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Broken weapon

Your Fire Catana (35 90%) has broken.
You lose a Fire Catana.

I don't get my silver back? That stuff took forever to collect. - Isambard 06:16, 27 May 2006 (BST)

Tell me about it. Took me a week to mine the ores and make the catana, then it's broken within a week. Complete waste of time. I think no silver is given back as it's not that hard to make (if you are lucky with mining), compare to for example a jumper or a boat. -- LittleHamster 23:19, 27 May 2006 (BST)
Make a Catana??? What a waste of effort. Just go and beat up a ninja!--Mick Sterbs 16:10, 13 June 2006 (BST)
That will get you a plain Catana; making a Silver Catana enables you to have an Aligned Catana. BlaisedeC 16:17, 13 June 2006 (BST)


Duke Didbert MD tried to steal from you. You attack Duke Didbert MD. You cause 20 points of damage, and receive 200 experience.

Tried searching the wiki for clues... any one kno wwhat this is about?

Try [Here] - Read the bottom of the page :) It would appear Didbert has taken some training, and decided to try it out on you. Syagrius 15:15, 23 May 2006 (BST)

Ah... Thanks.

I've got a question about this. What can be stolen? Is it just gold, or can items be stolen as well? Kaos Dragon 16:38, 2 June 2006 (BST)
Items as well, I believe. I think the game randomly chooses something to be stolen, just like the thieves in the forest. JohnnyRogers had a thief take his clinic invite once. Syagrius 16:23, 13 June 2006 (BST)

Lady Caroline's Bookbag lives again

All is now as it should be, requests to borrow books should be directed towards the Librarian at the Park Bench. Caroline 20:59, 23 May 2006 (BST)

Rare Books: Methuselah's Children

I am currently in possession of Lady Caroline's library-in-a-bag. I read every book that was in there, and contributed some of my own books to supplant the collection. The bag now contains every Henlien book save but one -- Methuselah's Children. Is there a kind soul out there willing to provide that book to the masses? If so, I'm sitting at the Park Bench in Windy City; just pass the book to Duke Stevie-O MD. Stevie-O 19:04, 22 May 2006 (BST)

I have one. I'm currently killing Loucees but I will drop it off next chance I get. DWE 20:14, 22 May 2006 (BST)
Cool. When do you think that might be? (And, furthermore, are Loucees actually good for anything, other than being just another kill list to top?) Stevie-O 20:49, 22 May 2006 (BST)
Done. 21:02, 22 May 2006 (BST)
Thank you very much :) Your cultural contribution shall not be forgotten. Stevie-O 21:33, 22 May 2006 (BST) (Btw, who wants the bag next?)
Wow, it's nice to know that player co-operation isn't dead. Whilst I'm building up AP on Holiday Island I'm leaving The Librarian in charge of my books. Thank You to all who have helped me to complete the collection. (Screw You to whoever read books and didn't return them!).Caroline 23:09, 22 May 2006 (BST)

Pinata Seekers

Use of the Pinata Summon page seems to have died off, alas. I'm sitting here with a Pinata on one side and a Knights who Say Ni on the other. Does anybody need a summons to them? Stevie-O 17:15, 22 May 2006 (BST)

Every time I see a pinata I look to the wiki to see if anyone needs a summons. I have never summoned anyone, and have killed my share of pinatas. The names change quickly enough, but people are summoned as quickly as they add their name. They're not that rare. copperisblue
Hrm, I killed an Earth Dragon near it and another Pinata spawned in that spot. The Pinata spawn rate must have increased at some point, because they never used to be this common.
The other possibility is that people just notice and talk about them more now.
Could be a probability fluke; could be that the likelihood was upped a little; could be that the K.O.T. has forged a new dawn of player cooperation. Er, um, I mean could be that we just have a rockin' community of helpy helpersons. macksting 20:36, 24 May 2006 (BST)
I'm pretty sure the practical rate of Pinata spawns has increased - presumably due to the monster lifetime patch that got put in (i.e. the rate hasn't actually increased, but the number of spare "roads" in which they can spawn has). I just went for a jaunt round the interior to collect Hard Knocks material and there were pinatas all over the place. On the other hand, I saw just one Vindaloo Monster - last time I was there, it seemed every other creature was a Vindaloo. I think the patch is having the desired effect. Rackmount 17:07, 31 May 2006 (BST)
Actually, I noticed the Vindaloo rate dropping dramatically before the lifetime patch. Could be that the admins just wiped a bunch out, or could be the result of an increase in Lager damage (one can will kill a Vindaloo now. If memory serves, it used to take 3-4). -- Thog 17:13, 31 May 2006 (BST)

Experience Question

So what -is- the deal with experience, anyway? I mean, there's the 2500 and 10,000 requirements, and there's bypassing creatures (about 50/50 blessing and curse), but is there any other point? Any clue what the formula is for bypassing stuff (like, why can I pass by a small dragon but not a bull)? And last, is there any simple way to reduce it, since a lot lately it seems like the curse is greater than the blessing? Cerril 08:04, 21 May 2006 (BST)

Answering your questions individually...
  • I don't know of any specific quest/area requirements other than the 2500 to enter the Palace and 10000 to enter the Great Desert. (To be technical, it's 10000 to move south in the Great Desert.)
  • I asked a question about monsters letting you pass vs. fighting you, and our great 'King gave an informative response. Basically, each individual monster has a threshhold where they won't fight anymore. Presumably this is taken from a range for each monster type; I don't know if there's any formula per se. Some medium-sized monsters--Bulls included--no longer have this threshhold (and thus will always fight), whereas the small dragons still do. (Although, curiously, Small Air Dragons still want to fight me....)
  • There are some monsters that drain XP. The quickest way to significantly reduce your XP is to fight a Hungry Ghost, which takes away 20% of your XP per hit. Fighting Vampires is probably pointless (I think they only take 25XP per hit).
Personally, I like having the small stuff let me pass--it's just more convenient, and I can always pull out a Cruel Blade/Wand of Anger/Ghastly Bling if I really want that Leprichaun's gold.  :) --Dragon 08:34, 21 May 2006 (BST)
Of course, if you really want to reduce your XP quickly, try attacking the Gorgan without a mirror. Drops you to 0 XP instantly, if memory serves. If you let everyone waiting for her at her palace know you're just looking for a quick suicide, they'd probably let you cut in line, too. -- Thog 20:48, 24 May 2006 (BST)
Personally, I revel in a high experience count; I just killed a Water Demon with a Glass Sword (shoulda thought of that ages ago) and got 50,000! Quite happy about that. Eventually, I might be able to walk right by Demons altogether. What a woundrous idea. :) macksting 21:02, 24 May 2006 (BST)
Demons probably don't have a threshhold for letting people pass. (Put another way, "Since Penguins still want to fight me when I have 2.5 million XP, I'm not getting my hopes up about Demons cowering away."  :) ) --Dragon 18:03, 25 May 2006 (BST)
A man can have dreams...

macksting 02:34, 26 May 2006 (BST)

Burn the Theives Forest to the Ground

Explaned here: Forest Fire--Frizzi 19:07, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Nevermind, just read the current events page... damn me for reading conversations first! --Frizzi 19:07, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Well, Are you going to join the League_of_the_Lifted_Lorax? We could use some help. It's a big forest full of many hit die monsters.Copperisblue 19:42, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Helpful Summoning: Military Island Hoppers

This was deleted, but I'm not sure precisely where else to find it; can't bookmark right now, though I might Watchlist it. Anyway, here we go: Island Hoppers are a dedicated summoning chain for the Islands. macksting 01:30, 20 May 2006 (BST)

The original conversation was moved, I believe, here. -- Sertularian 01:52, 20 May 2006 (BST)
For anyone not watching the page, there's a whole wave of Hoppers coming out of the Caverns on Bombadiers' Island. If you have the cards and want to go there, this would be a really good time to add yourself to the list. -- Thog 20:43, 24 May 2006 (BST)
Ready to summon, I suppose. I'll be leaving the island, so save one for me! macksting 20:46, 24 May 2006 (BST)
I am currently at holiday island, decided to take the island hoping to my own accord and actually build a raft... I can summon one person though before I continue my island hoping who will hopefully summon the next on the list, I will be here for a day, people sign on to this one now if you want to go here... -Stien 23:35, 1 June 2006 (BST)
Ninja Island this time. So you guys know the way, put your name on the list if you want to go there, fill the list up so you guys can go and fufill the list. Btw someone jump on the ninja island list so Nuru Nuru can summon you... -Stien 07:01, 2 June 2006 (BST)

Hmm ... how about a new quest?

I think that there should be a quest, that has really great reward and requires all other quests to be done first. Some quests here in cities are really hard and have rewards that are not worth the effort. This way with the new quest people would have motivation to do them. --Bebe 17:40, 19 May 2006 (BST)

Pandora's Socks Stink

The last time I wore the socks, I had to fight the four evil selves. That was probably over a month ago, and now I tried to wear them again and "nothing happens." I tried clearing all of the spaces around me for slime, wore them at different times and in different places, but no results. What's wrong? My only guess is that maybe I didn't finish off one of my evil selves...except if that's the case, I haven't the foggiest idea where to find them! Please help. Billz8 04:38, 18 May 2006 (BST)

Looks like a bug. I've moved you on to the next stage of the socks manually. Can you recall what weapon you used to finish off the last Evil Self? Darksatanic 11:58, 18 May 2006 (BST)
may have been something invis in one of those roads. Elseware 18:56, 18 May 2006 (BST)
I definitely cleared the roads...I kilt something in every one. I have no idea what weapon I was using...like I said, it was a month ago. I would guess a Water Sword or one of the Bows. Billz8.

It seems I have this same bug. I killed my evil twins, then nothing. I also cleared all spaces, and tried at different times in different places. I should have the hallucinations next, no? I'd just move on, but the crooked point of view is somewhat annoying. I'm currently chilling on Holiday Island. Erthbot 6 01:38, 29 May 2006 (BST)

Come one, Come all, to See the Miraculous Merman!

Visible from 3E, 37N, this wonder of nature has miraculously appeared on our shores! Long only legend, now it greets us as friends! macksting 22:18, 14 May 2006 (BST)

YEAH!!! Let's go kill it! Stevie-O 20:11, 15 May 2006 (BST)

Wonder who put that illusion there anyway. macksting 21:11, 17 May 2006 (BST)

Another Wizard's hat available

Anyone want a wizard's hat? I have a line on a stealable one. I would be ecstatic if someone was willing to offer some ancient wood in return, but I'll do it for nothing if I don't get a better offer. Hendsch 17:37, 12 May 2006 (BST)

There is some risk that the target will move (although he's been idle for a while). Do you have ancient wood to trade? Otherwise, I'll leave it open to someone able to complete the transaction sooner. Hendsch 17:56, 12 May 2006 (BST)

Too late. The Hat has moved! Hendsch 18:54, 12 May 2006 (BST)

Too damned right it has :) MrFoo 20:46, 12 May 2006 (BST)



I came across this on my way to Crystal Cave.:--Hamelin 02:24, 12 May 2006 (BST)

Wagga on the New Items page Been on there for a while, though nobody's sharing how to get them or what they do. Syagrius 02:27, 12 May 2006 (BST)

Want a Wagga? I have two. Let me know. Billz8 04:01, 12 May 2006 (BST)

Captain Hockney

Okay, I've looked at this from every angle possible. Has anyone ever found any rhyme or reason behind Captain Hockney's shop prices in Bentnob?

  • 23 Bent Pins (30GP) cost less than 1 Bent Pin (43GP)
  • You could buy a Feather for 599GP, or an identical Feather for 91GP (how does he tell them apart? They have the exact same value in the dropdown.) Or you could buy in bulk and save: 10 Feathers costs 99GP.
  • You can buy two Old Boots separately for 86GP (43GP each) or buy them both together for a scant 5000GP.
  • Several things cost 43GP (Bent Pin, Old Boot, Piece of Red Chalk)
  • A Big Map (5000GP) costs more than a full-sized Map (3000GP), but both cost far less than a small Map (13000GP)
  • Several items have somewhat "sane" prices (multiples of 10), amidst the oddities: Map(3000GP), Walking Stick(150GP), Small Map (13000GP), 23 Bent Pins (30GP), 2 Old Boots (5000GP), Pair of Scissors (150GP), and Big Map(5000GP).
  • The items do not appear to be listed in any coherent order.

What the heck is the story here? Stevie-O 01:19, 12 May 2006 (BST)

I have the sneaking suspicion that a random number generator was employed at the shop's inception, with a limited range of money values (30, 43, 150, 3000, 5000, etc.), and a few (extremely) arbitrary rules, applied randomly. PotatoEngineer 01:29, 12 May 2006 (BST)
It is a tribute to a shop in the town where I grew up where many bargains could be found, yet other items were priced insanely high. The owner was very much a bit of "Local Colour" and called himself Captain Hockney. Elseware 16:06, 16 May 2006 (BST)
The Ikea chain are obviously working on a tribute to this guy. Cheap furniture on the one hand, shoeboxes covered in wallpaper for a tenner on the other. Rackmount 16:43, 16 May 2006 (BST)

Music hath charms to soothe the savage beast

I got this message after attacking a pheonix with my accordion. Admittedly, I need to practice more often.

   You are a bit warm.
   You attack the Pheonix (gen. 3).
   You play the Accordion.
   The Pheonix (gen. 3) doesn't seem impressed.
   The Phoenix regenerates, stronger than ever. 
   The Pheonix (gen. 4) causes 8 points of damage.

Has anyone managed to impress a savage beast? Kepler 02:58, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Was the Phoenix elementally aligned to be weak to the earth-aligned Accordion? Are you very talented with accordions? I really, really need to practice my harmonica... macksting 03:05, 11 May 2006 (BST)
I've been a bit slack about practising, although I am a natural with the accordion. I'll try it on an air-aligned animal sometime, see what happens... The pheonix was similarly unimpressed with my fiddle playing. Kepler 03:40, 11 May 2006 (BST)

See the introduction on Musical Instruments. It's not alignment based. And the soothing effect is not forever lasting. -- LittleHamster 07:28, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Thank you! macksting 21:29, 11 May 2006 (BST)


Could somebody grab a Knife from one of its many Market postings? I'm willing to trade a Basket of Plums or a Jar of Grape Jam or something. Or pay double in gold. macksting 03:41, 10 May 2006 (BST)

Any reason why? --Duke Slith MD 04:35, 10 May 2006 (BST)
Mackie, I have several - come back to the Park Bench, or I can summon. Syagrius 13:57, 10 May 2006 (BST)
Dojo Master needed one. I had none, even after all this time, and was totally out of AP. Figured I'd need one or two. Two would be better. Sy, I'm headed back to the park bench. macksting 02:14, 11 May 2006 (BST)
Incidentally, I gave you 2 before reading this... I get my knives off of thieves. They've dropped one everytime I've killed one. Syagrius 02:23, 11 May 2006 (BST)
Danke. I was wondering why they were so cheap. macksting 02:48, 11 May 2006 (BST)

Wands Nerfed?

I've noticed a recent ineffeciency in my wands; one that has gotten me killed in at least one occassion. Just now I spend 20 APs! trying to turn an earth dragon to fire so that I could defeat it more efficently; more fool me eh? PlanetNiles 11:25, 8 May 2006 (BST)

I've noticed it too - my wand hit rate has dropped to about 10% (base to-hit 76%) Kepler 15:37, 8 May 2006 (BST)

Seems to have gone back to normal - maybe I was being a bit hysterical :) Kepler 03:28, 10 May 2006 (BST)
gotta get me some of those potions of accuracy, or some more tarot cards!
What will the Tarot Cards do? Bombadier's Quest?
I believe it's the Bombadier/Caverns he's refering to. For non-fire players, you'll want to add another 20% with potions of accuracy afterwards to achieve 90% with your wands. -- LittleHamster 15:29, 9 May 2006 (BST)

I don't noticed any change. Wands have -30% to-hit, so the chances of hitting at a base to-hit of 76% isn't that good to start with anyway. -- LittleHamster 20:14, 8 May 2006 (BST)

S'truth, the hit rate's never been good. We'll let common consensus be the determining factor; thus far we have two who feel the wand has been nerfed, one who hasn't noticed a difference. I've not been in combat lately, so I can't weigh in.
However, PNiles dude, you should never, and I mean never, attack with any object a creature which could kill you in that same series of blows. Enemy has a 10% chance to hit but attacks 10 times? Assume it'll hit for 100. This is the caution I expect of my Knights. macksting 02:57, 9 May 2006 (BST)
Usually I'm a paragon of caution, hence my relatively low number of deaths for my age. However when you're down the tunnles, low of provisions, surrounded in on both sides nowhere to go but forward or back and facing an unexpected foe aligned with your weakness sometimes rashness manifests as you try to turn them to a friend or at least weaken them against you... PlanetNiles 15:12, 9 May 2006 (BST)
*sighs* Were I not sympathetic, I'd not have created the K.O.T. That said, I presume you'll step more lightly. As I've said in your messages, I'm actually very inclined to join you; it'll be my first spelunking! I'll need to prepare, of course. :) macksting 03:35, 10 May 2006 (BST)
I haven't noticed a difference at all, but it could be because I'm a fire player with a to-hit of 95%. Syagrius 03:12, 9 May 2006 (BST)
I noticed today it took a couple more hits than normal to realign a Large Tar, causing me to lose wands. - Isambard 03:28, 9 May 2006 (BST)
Correct me if I'm wrong; Isambard's itinerary seems to imply he, too, is a fire-element. macksting 03:29, 9 May 2006 (BST)
In the large amount of time I spent in the desert recently, I noticed a very poor to-hit ratio with wands for tars and mimics both. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for middling-nasty creatures like Rocs and Snakes. I have never seen a wand require more than one AP to use. Are some monsters harder to hit than others? I seem to recall that completing one of the quests makes YOU harder to hit, but I'm not sure. If that's the case, then it makes sense for monsters, because monsters and players are very, very similar. IMHO, the wands are not nerfed. -- Sertularian 03:38, 9 May 2006 (BST)
Which quest would that be? (I could use that... :) ) --Dragon 04:08, 9 May 2006 (BST)
Seconded! Won't change my strategy, but it'll save me some AP. macksting 03:19, 10 May 2006 (BST)
My apologies for starting unfounded rumors. I thought I recalled that the Wiki said that one of the (early) quests taught you some tricks to make you harder to hit. I've re-read the Quests, and I can't find it. Must be the hallucinations again... -- Sertularian 05:27, 10 May 2006 (BST)
I think it was originally part of the creature survey.

I smell a lack of rat recognition

After killing a few rats with religious zeal, having noticed the rat-bashing league maxes out at a less-than-commando-esque 1 rat..... I find myself miffed. Though not very miffed. It's only a game like. But why the chuff are rat kills not registering? WHY?????? I'm over it. Nuru nuru 15:04, 8 May 2006 (JST)