Talk:Order of the Club

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Contents 1 Fare Well, Lord Azuaron 2 New Members 3 Projects 3.1 Bort's latest job... 3.2 Pizza 3.3 N'gann Potion 3.4 Changeling Endowment 3.5 Sert's Contract 3.6 Space Advert 3.7 Lost World 3.8 Notes for JPV's 4 Logistics 4.1 Guild Contract 5 Crafting 5.1 Smithing 5.2 Guild Hall Architecture 5.2.1 Naming 6 Equipment 6.1 Stelio 7 Past Contracts 8 Old Talk 8.1 Oops 8.2 Guild Hall 8.3 Shaman Raistlin's Customer Service 8.4 Dissing

Fare Well, Lord Azuaron

A toast to our departing leader, Azuaron. His great skill with a sword has called him to save a princess in a neighboring kingdom. We will all be sad to see him go.

Wait, I thought his skill with a sword had given him enough money to sit in a bar and drink merrily for the rest of his life? Either way, here's to the Boss! -- Belkar 00:04, 3 July 2008 (BST)

I won his corspe; and as such, I have a guild treasury card. Shouldn't this card be returned to "Yall"? Pyg me for more info. -- Avatar_Aang 00:04, 12 August 2008 (BST)

New Members

I've admired your guild and it's mission for a while now and I see you need some assistance. Anton has been sitting on Holiday Island for quite a while accumulating nigh 20K AP and feels he might be able to help. I have some free time tomorrow in which I'll attempt to complete some of the outstanding tasks. Snare 01:15, 13 July 2008 (BST)

Projects

Bort's latest job...

Might be a great one for one of the armourers, since it doesn't require killing anything. Armourers? -- Belkar 21:55, 20 March 2008 (GMT)

I have sent him a message and am gathering the materials. Namorson 25 March 2008

Job completed

Pizza

So during discussion on IRC, the topic of sweeping the sewers of Air Tortoises came up (since they don't drop any weapons usable for Ninja training, they tend to get ignored a lot). It may be worth either having everyone make pizzas, or having a pizza party to get enough pizza to make a dent in the Tortoise population. Thoughts? -- Belkar 19:21, 8 February 2008 (GMT)

Sounds good. I'd been planning to make pizzas and hit the Sewers when I returned to the 'Kingdom anyway. However I'm currently in Oz, and I'm loathe to leave at the moment as I sailed all the way here and am on my way to travel through the interior to photograph the Goodyear Pimp. (In related news, let me know if anyone would like a summon to Oz.) -Stelio 19:46, 8 February 2008 (GMT)

Good plan. I'm in. I can contribute several pizzas and AP to make more. While we're at it, we should have a go on all those annoying dianogas as well. We'll need some potions for that. Flt 01:16, 9 February 2008 (GMT)

As long as we're paid, I'm willing to join any hunt. ;-) (And phasers work well for Dianogas, if you don't mind losing crystals every so often.) Azuaron 14:25, 9 February 2008 (GMT)

Although, now that I think about it, don't the Sewers have a much faster monster refresh rate? It seems like monsters disappear and reappear on their own after only a couple days... Would clearing them do any good? Azuaron 14:31, 9 February 2008 (GMT)

I don't know about monster decay, but I can tell that the respawn rate is only half an hour in the sewers (unlike the catacombs where it is 48 hours). --JAD 16:53, 9 February 2008 (GMT)

Well, I think the critical question is the decay rate - I think it's greater than a half hour. In other words, if we clear out Air Tortoises, the sewers will respawn, but I'd bet it'll be a lot more even than currently. Also, I'd suggest we contract per head (possibly with a number of air tortoises at a time, like 50) -- Belkar 17:27, 9 February 2008 (GMT)

You may also want to discuss clearing space of earth worms every few months. If you can't find an individual player willing to pay, I'm sure military trainees and crystal hunters would be willing to pool their gold. --JAD 02:29, 9 February 2008 (GMT)

Are we still planning to do this? I converted all my magic beans into Tomatoes (have 52 now) and need a lot of Wheat to make the dough. Flt 09:26, 28 February 2008 (GMT)

Yes! And I've been (and still am) growing Wheat. :-D I've also made some Dough, grown Tomatoes, and made Cheese Slices. Here's a table 'cause I appear to like making Wiki tables... -Stelio 19:18, 28 February 2008 (GMT)

Individual processes required in creating Pizza Slices

Alignment	AP	Process	Notes
Earth	1AP	1 Magic Bean → 1 Sheaf of Wheat	Plowed Field is more efficient
Earth	3AP	1 Sheaf of Wheat → 1 Bag of Flour
Water	1AP	3 Bags of Flour → 1 Handful of Dough
Neutral	1AP+	1 Cow → 1 Pint of Milk	Requires a Bucket
Neutral	1AP	1 Pint of Milk → 1 Gorgan-zola Cheese Slice	Requires a Head of the Gorgan
Air	1AP	1 Magic Bean → 20 Olives	Only on Badlands
Neutral	1AP	1 Magic Bean → 1 Tomato	Only on Haunted Farm
Fire	15AP	1 Handful of Dough + 5 Gorgan-zola Cheese Slices + 8 Olives + 5 Tomatoes → 1 Pizza
Air	1AP	1 Pizza → 8 Pizza Slices

More to come when I have the time. Something along the lines of Knitting Circle or Pizza Party or Cucumber Sandwiches Table.

Once I'm back to Earth, I'd be more than happy to grow olives and slice pizzas -- Belkar 02:46, 29 February 2008 (GMT)

N'gann Potion

"Gonzometro placed a bounty of 100000 gp, or an equivalent value in items from his inventory, on the N'gann Potion's use. Contact via his talk page." Shall we take this job? Collectively we could probably figure it out pretty quickly, and the items to make it aren't too expensive. Azuaron 15:25, 10 February 2008 (GMT)

Got 3 N'Ganns and the materials for another four. Also I cured more than 25 people so I'll know what's affecting me at the moment. We could combine this with our trip to the sewers. Flt 14:00, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

You should also compile a taxonomy of current cities status ailments. Off the top of my head, you can be drunk, tripping, bloinking, poisoned, shapeshifted (toad, wyrm, werewolf, etc.), and have vision reversed. I'm sure I missed a few. --JAD 20:44, 11 February 2008 (GMT)

And [Spang]:ed after consuming Red Pills. Theoretically a N'Gann potion could also "cure" the effect of a Blue Pill (not that it would be useful or even wanted), but still...

Changeling Endowment

I wonder if people would pay to be infected with lycanthropy. It isn't exactly a "mercenary" job unless one looks on it as training to fight with claws and teeth. Namorson 23 February 2008

I would pay to be infected at 3am game time, what would be a good price? --Ragna 20:06, 16 July 2008 (BST)

Sert's Contract

Anyone else want to contribute to Sertularian's contract? I pretty much have to head up into space to replenish my Power Crystal supply (the downside of hunting Tortoises with Phasers) so I'll be out of commission for a while, but there's still 50 catanas (i.e. 375K) to go until we reach his initial cap. -- Belkar 05:36, 26 February 2008 (GMT)

I've gotta run down to the coast to change my alignment and get some Sais training, so I'll beat up some Ninjas while I'm on the island. Azuaron 16:57, 26 February 2008 (GMT)

I've got a dozen Catanas, but they're from slaying Ninja before I joined the Guild so I believe that it wouldn't be ethical of me to use them to claim any of this bounty. -Stelio 19:18, 28 February 2008 (GMT)

Why not? The man wants Catanas, I don't think he actually cares how he gets them. Azuaron 23:25, 28 February 2008 (GMT)

Exactly. You pass the Ethics test (Does it screw the client? Does it screw a fellow Guildmember? Does it violate Guild Rule #2?) so go for it. Heck, if you were insane enough to MAKE catanas, that would be fine as well. -- Belkar 02:40, 29 February 2008 (GMT)

Space Advert

So, what's stopping you from creating a mess in space while hunting for Power Crystals just to drum up this little side project? ;-) Seriously, though, I like your idea (for both the guild overall and this particular service). A potentially better way to market this would be towards the people who actually leave the mess in space (i.e. "Single? Lazy? Too many Cans of Worms on your hands? We'll clean up space after you for blah, blah, blah...") Snare 17:09, 28 February 2008 (GMT)

"Why doesn't anyone believe I have professional standards?" - Buck Godot. Seriously, that's not a bad way to pitch cleanup services. -- Belkar 17:56, 28 February 2008 (GMT)

Lost World

Seems this is a ripe place to offer services. Need a member to play bridge? Give us a call. We'll play bridge with you than leave, lessening the competition for killing dinosaurs in search of power crystals and the other goodies. Of course if you wish, we can also help you fight in there. It can be a l-o-o-o-o-n-g wait waiting for 4 bridge players. I am sure many would be willing to pay a price to be able to enter "now". Didn't want to add it to the "possible jobs" without your thoughts Namorson

YES! Although, I'd broaden the general category to "Group activities" - need to kill a Polychromatic Dragon? Need to play bridge? etc. -- Belkar 02:46, 29 February 2008 (GMT)

Notes for JPV's

Name	Target
Azuaron	SA
Belkar	SW, LW, LF

Logistics

Belkar's point above about how to price ourselves ("I'd suggest we contract per head (possibly with a number of air tortoises at a time, like 50)") is excellent. It's clear, directly related to the needs of the customer, and very easy to confirm by checking the Monster Bashing Leagues. I agree with it completely. Unless otherwise agreed we would keep the monster drops, and of course we would also take on the cost in AP, HP, and item breakage. Payment levels should theoretically compensate us for the opportunity cost of the AP and the cost of risks (and to an extent ongoing maintenance costs of the Guild). So the key question is, "What is our AP worth to us?" followed by, "How much AP does it take to complete a job?" The guild is only economically viable if the market (other players) is willing to pay us that amount. -Stelio 00:48, 10 February 2008 (GMT)

I agree, and I think the market will be willing to pay. Maybe not for all the services we could offer, but the Shamans will certainly pay us handsomely to clear the Mountain Trail, and I'm reasonably confident our escort and find-a-rare-item services will be used. Azuaron 15:21, 10 February 2008 (GMT)

Actually, I'd suggest we charge by the head, but vary by creature type. For example, Golfers and Khadis would be considerably cheaper than Demons or Tripods (since Demons have the drain attacks, and Tripods have huge HP). I'd also suggest that we accept large weapons at market value as part or all of the bill (since we'll be tearing through Vorpals /Glass/Rainbow and Furious Bows at an alarming rate. Finally, I'd also suggest tossing in incidental creatures for free. For example, if we're paid to clear the Mountain Trail, we charge per tripod, and anything else is on the house. Thoughts? -- Belkar 18:09, 10 February 2008 (GMT)

Aye, sounds good to me. :-) -Stelio 22:25, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

Guild Contract

Should we have one? At the bare minimum, a "come to initiations or leave the guild" clause? Azuaron 21:34, 19 February 2008 (GMT)

I'd recommend two basic rules for Guild Membership

1. Be active. If you're going to be inactive for a while, either go to Holiday Island (and make sure you're summonable) or leave the guild. We'll be happy to invite you back when you come back to the game.
2. Any contract that would bring the wrath of the Great Lords down on the guild is strictly forbidden. If it'd get you alone in trouble, have fun.

-- Belkar 21:50, 19 February 2008 (GMT)

I like both of those. Anyone else? Anyone? Bueller? Azuaron 04:21, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

Yes indeed. Those sounds excellent. -Stelio 22:25, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

Crafting

Smithing

Please let me know if there are any weapons I can forge for The Order of The Club (or any other services). Namorson 11 February 2008

MasterPete here, I've made a few weapons and dropped them in the store. Any feedback on weapons would be appreciated. I think the most useful weapons to the guild would be high damage, ÷0 accuracy, and a high break rate. These would be quick to make and useful for quick jobs. Let me know if you want a specific weapon for a specific job... or can think of a weapon that would be useful for a specific job and I can get a head start on it. I really just need metal bit donations.

Also- palintir me if you want me to make any guild hall improvements. I hang out in there all the time anyway...and I've already made the trading post kit... just need to spend 100 AP to install it. MasterPete 18:48, 6 March 2008 (GMT)

Well, I'm pretty sure we need Master Armourer forging to make every guild kit kind of thing. Azuaron 02:41, 12 February 2008 (GMT)

That is what I figured. I assume a tunnel and temple should be the first things I build? I built a tunnel but we need 10 relics to build a temple. Well 8 more. I have 2. Namorson

I have the mana to craft the remaining 8 relics, but I'll need another 70 Bones for that. I'll be at the pentacle for a while today. Flt 08:08, 12 February 2008 (GMT)

I'll go kill some snakes. Out of AP, 19 Bones delivered. Azuaron 13:33, 12 February 2008 (GMT)

Was able to purchase a relic. I now have 3. Namorson 13 February 2008

I have a ton of AP (> 10K) so I'll try to get the rest of the bones if time permits after work. Am I counting corrently that we still need 41? -- Belkar 20:10, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

I made 3 relics, so we'll need another 40 bones. Flt 20:44, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

Okay, I now have 64 bones (lost count while slaughtering boas). I'll hand them off when we're done slaughtering dinosaurs. -- Belkar 00:24, 15 February 2008 (GMT)

Guild Hall Architecture

We should plan the initial components of the Guildhouse. Here's a table of the possible terrains at present and what each one needs to build and maintain. -Stelio 22:25, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

Terrain	#	Build Cost				Weekly Maintenance				Notes
		Gold	Wood	Stones	Other	Gold	Wood	Stones	Other
Lobby	1	200,000	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	Necessary
Temple	1	50,000	100	50	40 Mana, 100 Bones	2000	20	20	1 Mana	Necessary
Comms Room	1	30,000	100	50	10 Palantirs, 500 Cu	2000	30	10	1 Palantir	Extremely useful
Store + Locker	1	35,000	100	50	8 Mana, 100 Fe	1000	30	10	-	Extremely useful
Tunnel	2	10,000	100	50	-	-	10	10	-	Needed to lock terrains
Treasury	1	30,000	100	50	-	1000	30	10	-	Useful
Trading Post	0	30,000	100	50	-	2000	30	10	-	Questionably useful
Ticket Office	0	30,000	100	50	20 Paper	2000	20	10	5 Paper	Only for Guild Teleport?
Teleport	0	40,000	100	50	5 Power Crystals	2000	30	10	1 Power Crystal	Where to? Costly upkeep

• The Comms Room and Store are essential in my opinion, for quick mass communication and for the easiest way to pool useful kit and maintenance materials.
• A Treasury might be useful. I don't have a strong opinion either way. Given the possibility of abuse if we lose a debit card, I would suggest locking it if we have one.
• I see the Trading Post as nice, but ultimately not useful if we also have a Store.
• I don't think we need a Teleport. We're all advanced and can get to most places. There are already teleports to the most useful hard-to-get-to locations (namely R'1yeh and the Oz Mountain Trail).
• If we don't have a Teleport, then I don't think we need a Ticket Office (unless we plan on charging an entry fee to join the Guild, but I'm generally against that).

So how about the following for an initial floor plan which can be expanded on later? I have laid it out this way, not because it is optimal in terms of maintenance (because it isn't) but rather so that it neatly follows the layout of the Royal Palace above (which would be cool). -Stelio 22:25, 20 February 2008 (GMT)

I think I agree on every point. :) Azuaron 01:28, 21 February 2008 (GMT)

Yes, excellent work and planning. I have one tunnel and one Locker. We will need 3 more lockers for the store. I also have an antenna so building a comm room will be doable. I will be at the park bench in the Air City to receive the 7 relics I need to build a temple Namorson 21 February 2008

A Treasury would be useful for splitting profits from shared projects. The only thing that people can do on the square itself would be to see who withdrew or deposited what, so locking it isn't important. Perhaps put it under the Knights Registry? Also, flt, do you still have the mana to make the relics? If so, I can toss the bones your way whenever you'd like. -- Belkar 17:28, 21 February 2008 (GMT)

In the unlikely event that someone dies without insurance their corpse will have a debit card which will allow them to withdraw funds. --Namorson 20:35, 21 February 2008 (GMT)

Okay, so now we have Guild Rule #3: Own full insurance, or keep your Treasury Card in the Guild stash. I know several existing guilds have LARGE sums of money in their treasuries, and have never had problems with thieves. It's just too useful a piece of real estate to ignore (particularly when you deal in commerce, like we hope to) -- Belkar 21:09, 21 February 2008 (GMT)~

I'd be fine with a treasury, as it would make it easier to get money to/from someone on a job in Oz, R'1yeh, etc. I would suggest we stick it under one of the Palace squares we currently have set for a Tunnel, in the interest of economy (and since the Knight Registry and Treasury are related in phonology alone). Azuaron 01:00, 22 February 2008 (GMT)

The far corner it is, then. :-) A Treasury would clearly go in the back of a building. Map below updated. -Stelio 08:00, 22 February 2008 (GMT)

I still have the mana and will be at the park bench waiting for you. Flt 15:01, 23 February 2008 (GMT)

If anyone is near the south East mines, please summon MasterPEte. So I can get in and mine some mana to make guild namers.... Thanks...

Naming

Since I doubt we want to leave the names of everything at "Treasury" and "Temple" and "Comms Room," etc., what should we name everything?

• Order of the Club (Entrance)

Grand Hall (Azuaron)

• Temple

Sanguine Initiation Chamber (Azuaron)

Sacrificial Altar (Azuaron)

Mysteries of Mithras[1] (Namorson)

• Comms Room

Clairaudient Transmissions (Azuaron)

Cone of Silence[2] (Namorson)

• Store

Pile o' Loot (Azuaron)

Dead Drop[3] (Namorson)

• Treasury

Cashy Loot (Azuaron)

• Tunnel

Secret Escape Passage (Azuaron)

I have placed 5 Guild Namers and 1 Guild Decorator in the Store Room (Namorson) 26 February 2008

Azuaron 05:03, 25 February 2008 (GMT)

Wilderness	Kings Moat	Kings Moat	Kings Moat	Kings Moat	Kings Moat
Kings Moat	Kings Moat	Kings Palace	Comms Room Kings Library	Treasury Kings Palace	Kings Moat
Kings Moat	Knights Registry	Lobby Royal Wine Bar	Temple Throne Room	Store Kings Store	Tunnel Kings Moat
Kings Moat [ball]	Guild Registry	Kings Palace	Kings Palace	Trading Post? Kings Palace	Kings Moat
Kings Moat	Kings Moat	Kings Moat	Kings Road	Kings Moat	Kings Moat

Equipment

A place to note any stuff that you have that you think may be of use to the Guild. It is expected that most of the things listed here can be shoved into the Guild Store when it is built, but other items may be more suitably kept in someone's inventory.

Stelio

Some items of note (I'll have a more detailed sift through my inventory later):

• A spare Flake Shaker (for feeding Goldfish)
• A Horsie (black stallion, earth-aligned) for sexing your equine
• A Hate of Golfers (10% to hit, 200 damage)
• Lots of golf clubs (for Cute Seals and Vordermen)
• A Caravel and a Speedboat
• Plans for: Boat, Caravel, Raft, Survey Vessel, Speedboat
• 7 Bowling Balls
• A spare Space Rocket
• A Human Liver

I've also got a Screen Printing Kit and I picked up 30 T-Shirts. Guild T-Shirts! Yay! Suggestions for a bit of text, please. :-)

• "Will kill things for money"?
• "The Order of the Club: we kill it so you don't have to!"
• "The Order of the Club: I'm killing stupid"
• "I joined The Order of the Club, and all I got was this T-Shirt"

-- Belkar 00:16, 22 February 2008 (GMT)

• "We're trained professionals. (Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate.)"
• "W.W.T.D.?"
• "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing pixie dust."
• "I killed a PC and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt"
• "Sacrificing minions: is there any problem it can't solve?"
• Your broken corpses will taste delicious lightly seasoned with nutmeg."
• "I prefer the term 'Freelance Wealth Redistribution Specialist'"
• "I have an idea. It starts with 'S' and ends with 'litting their throats.'"

(Yes, I did take these from the shirts Order of the Stick has in their store...) Azuaron 00:47, 22 February 2008 (GMT)

Past Contracts

I figure it's probably worth documenting deals, both for setting prices in the future and if something becomes a recurring contract. Feel free to move this elsewhere if need be.

Client	Task	Price charged	Merc
looser	One sweep through the Mall, killing Zombies	200 GP/zombie for the first 50, 2 pieces of ancient wood and 1 piece of leather for every zombie after that	Belkar
Shaman Raistlin	Escort through Bomb Squad/Thieves' Forest/Martial Arts Dojo	55,000 for Bomb Squad (Summon Stone and Tarot cards provided by client); 2,000 each for Thieves'/Dojo (Summon Stones provided)	Azuaron
looser	One sweep through the Mall, killing Zombies	200 GP/zombie for the first 50, 2 pieces of ancient wood and 1 piece of leather for every zombie after that	Stelio
BortJr	Provide Bulk Plums & Flying Fish	2,000 per basket of plums, 2,100 for crushed plums. 1000 per flying fish	Namorson
Sertularian	Gather catanas	7,500 gp/catana	Belkar/Azuaron
Corellis	Cure for lycanthropy	7,500 gp	Che

Old Talk

Oops

Apparently we inducted the wrong alt into the guild. MasterPete wanted to join, and we inducted Donkey instead. Can all members return to the Temple when they get a chance and we can correct this? -- Belkar 21:08, 26 February 2008 (GMT)

Righty right, why did donkey show up to our initiation in the first place...? Anyway, I'm there and won't move Flt 23:24, 26 February 2008 (GMT)

My fault, I'm afraid. I summoned him, since I was impatient and wanted to get on to other things. Sorry, all... -- Belkar 01:17, 27 February 2008 (GMT)

Guild Hall

I have just purchased a Guild Permit! So, the question now becomes, where do we want our Guild Hall? Any thoughts? Azuaron 18:00, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

Hmm. Someplace easily accessible is a must. Here's some ideas (though other locations are fine):

• Under Holiday Island (since a lot of us may not have stuff to do when we're not taking contacts)
• Base of the Mountain Trail (easily accessible via the Wyrms teleporter)
• Under Immemorial Park (although that could cause problems if parties/pentacles block the entrance)
• Under the 'King's Throne

-- Belkar 19:34, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

I was thinking about under the Hunting Lodge, too, since that is basically the mercenary quest of the game. ;-) I would like to avoid places that could be blocked by, say, a Pentacle, and I'd also like it easily/cheaply accessible (the Wyrms teleporter does cost coin to use.) More thoughts? Azuaron 23:13, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

Well, if there's no additional ideas, let's call for a vote:

• Holiday Island

Name

• 'King's Throne Royal Wine Bar

Flt (actually I'm for the royal wine bar)

Belkar (I like the idea of the Royal Wine Bar even better than the throne)

Azuaron

Namorson

Stelio (using the Royal Palace has the added advantage is that anyone wanting to join must be at least of Knight level ability, although this is somewhat mitigated by being able to reach knighthood without actually killing anything)

• Hunting Lodge

Name

It appears we have a unanimous quorum! I'll hop right up to the Royal Wine Bar and make us a real guild. :-) Azuaron 01:23, 21 February 2008 (GMT)

Guild Hall created! Enter at the Royal Wine Bar, and I've even mined out a couple spaces for upcoming locations, when they're ready. Azuaron 01:49, 21 February 2008 (GMT)

Shaman Raistlin's Customer Service

Any takers? I'm more than happy to do it myself, but anyone's more than happy to take parts they want. What he's asked for so far:

Escort through the Bombadier's Caverns Escort to Thief Training Escort to Martial Arts Training Dojo in the forest

The second two are pretty easy (go to Thieves' Den/Dojo and summon him), but the Bombadier's Caverns will be more extensive. I'd say 7,000 for the Thieves' and Dojo (5,000, then 2,000 for AP to get there) and 50,000 for the Bomb Squad quest (if he summons one of us to the island, otherwise 60,000 to summon him there). Thoughts? Azuaron 00:33, 12 February 2008 (GMT)

Completed. Got the message:

Shaman Raistlin gives you 40000 Gold Pieces.
Shaman Raistlin says 'There's some extra for you Azauron,
you deserve it. Also keep the bag, and the remaining cards,
you did an outstanding job. I'm sure going to hire your
services again ;)'

For a total of 80,000 and some extra Tarot Cards (price was to be 59,000). :-) Azuaron 17:26, 18 February 2008 (GMT)

Dissing

Should one of the services we offer be to dis players? So if someone has plenty of cash and little AP, they can pay by the kudos for us to collectively drop another player's kudos. Or would this just generate bad PR for us? Azuaron 15:21, 10 February 2008 (GMT)