Talk:Quests

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The new, new format

I didn't like the split-up-by-region format. There was one comment below by someone else who didn't like it, and I didn't hear much enthusiasm for it on IRC, so I put it back somewhat like the way it was. My main problems with it were:

  • Unrelated quests grouped together. The four North quests fit together into a meta-quest, as eventually will the Underground quests, but the others didn't have anything in common beyond starting in the same general region.
  • Misleading impressions. There were only two "Oz quests," which might lead people casually glancing at the page to conclude that there's not much there. There were in fact six quests taking place in Oz, but the other four were under various other headings (career, alignment, etc.).

So I've put things back. Yes, there's a big "Miscellaneous" section. I'm ok with that. Comments for or against the new, new format can go here. --Dragon 05:29, 23 February 2007 (GMT)

Yet another classification problem

I suggest Jock McStrapp be classified either with fire (it increase to-hit) or with earth (it allows you to wear armour decently, effectively making you tougher). Also I would put the merchants quest with earth as a)there are so few earth quests and b)it is started in Earth City--Solune 22:01, 22 October 2006 (BST)

Jock doesn't increase to-hit but rather reduces to-hit penalties in certain circumstances. Similarly, it doesn't make you any tougher (max hp), it just allows you to wear armour more easily. As for the merchant guild, the guild office is near Earth City (but not in it), so that's a possibility--but really, I don't see "there are comparatively few Earth quests" as a reason to reclassify any particular quest as Earth. Also, the Merchant Guild doesn't thematically fit with the Earth quests, since it has nothing to do with either HP or alcohol.  :) --Dragon 22:50, 22 October 2006 (BST)
I think I'm with Dragon on this one. Jock (and his friend Paul, who you haven't met yet) are probably best thought of as running in parallel with the armourer quests. Darksatanic 23:48, 22 October 2006 (BST)
Each alignment has quests that are not related to its main purpose (creature survey, gauntlet, treasure quest, swimming lessons). But my main reason was that I don't like any kind of items piling up in an "other" category, and there are 12 "other quests" now.--Solune 11:05, 23 October 2006 (BST)
Please tell me Paul's last name is something like Mahfinger. =] -Jon 12:09, 23 October 2006 (BST)
I would suggest it is an Earth quest. It's not upping your tohit, it's losing the penalty from lv 1 armour.--Elseware

Classification of R'1yeh Quest

I currently have the Dread Cthu1hu's Garden quest under "Other" since there is no prerequisite (I completed the quest as a Knight). It may be considered a Wizard quest, since the bonus is really only useful to wizards. However, my fear is that then other professions won't really look at it. I've used the Machine as a knight and now have some mana, so I'll have more of a supply when I switch to wizard...what do people think about the classification of this quest? --Dragon 07:53, 2 October 2006 (BST)

I think it should be a wizard quest, as it's really only useful for wizards. Even though a knight can complete the quest, but by putting it in the wizard category, you are telling people actively that don't bother unless you know why you are doing this. We can add a note within the quest page saying anyone can do this quest? By the way, I asked about the Astrolabe/Ancient Castle quest before, and DS says there are/will be other uses of the castle, and thats why it shouldn't be in the Armourer category. -- LittleHamster 11:58, 2 October 2006 (BST)
Actually it's not just useful to wizards as the Eldritch Machine can be used by knights to get mana. Wizards aprrentice gain 1 mana every 8 hours for free. There are uses for mana for non wizards, and more are planned. 152.78.69.148 12:29, 2 October 2006 (BST)

Totems Quest

Is this an Air Quest or a Oz Quest? Should it be uner Air?

It's definitely an air quest. Personally, I wouldn't separate out quests for Oz as a group in their own right (or, indeed, any other quests simply by the location that they happen in). Darksatanic 21:52, 24 August 2006 (BST)
I suggest we then put the wizard quests under Earth as there are so few Earth quests--Solune 22:20, 24 August 2006 (BST)
But it's not an earth quest. It affects AP, so it's Air. MrFoo
Err... the Wizard quest affects neither AP nor HP. The Totems quest affects maxAP, and is thus a natural Air quest. I would suggest making a separate set for each of "Wizard" and "[Other-job]" quests, as there will eventually be several of each. Note also that some of the fire quests could be considered "Knight" quests, in the same job-related vein. Darksatanic 23:14, 24 August 2006 (BST)

Stupid Question?

Shouldn't slaying the Gorgan be on the quest list simular to the Slaying the giant? You don't get anything on your "Me" page, like the gaint, but you do get a awesome item when you kill him, like the giant, and it's not easy to kill him, like the gaint...

What do you think? -Stien 23:36, 6 June 2006 (BST)

Snark Question

Can the Snark Sack be given away, and another one gained?

no it's "sticky" like Fists or matches.
But unlike Creature Lists, which can be passed from user to user, even though the state of the object (the actual list of ticked-off creatures) remains with the user.

Fortune Question

On the pre-reqs for the Fortune Teller Quest:

As an alternate to the recommended pre-req, I find that I am able to make adequate progress without the water skin with just the boosted max HP from going through the school of hard knocks a few times (with the dragon stone as a back-up). On the other hand, I expect it would be nearly impossible without having run the guantlet (unless I completely misunderstand how the water skin works).

Yep, my bad. I've fixed the pre-reqs description. Nick 10:06, 6 Dec 2005 (GMT)


Quest Summary?

Umm... I wondered if it would be possible to do a bulleted list of alignment quests, indented to show prerequisites? I have it on my page... Emmanovi 23:07, 28 Jan 2006 (GMT)

There was a template sort of page that can be copied into your personal page. I'm not quite sure what happened to it. Or just take one from one of the many users' versions out there. Darksatanic 23:16, 28 Jan 2006 (GMT)
Should I create a list like this to go on the quests page?
As in something like this: (Copied from my page)

Earth:

  • Initiation / Getting Drunk

Fire:

  • Getting Knighted
  • Initiation
  • The Duel
  • Befriending the Guards

Water:

  • Learning to Swim
  • Initiation / First Aid
  • Becoming a Doctor

Air:

  • Initiation / Visiting 4 Cities

(Please comment your views!) Emmanovi 23:08, 28 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Hey :) It might be worth editing this one - probably just needs some reformatting + updating. 152.78.191.34 17:19, 29 Jan 2006 (GMT)

I tried... It should be right - but it doesn't look that good.

New split up format

The page is becomming a bit long, and I've taken the liberty to create a template, and split it into multiple pages. This main page needs a better introduction. Hopefully someone more eloquent than me will take up the challenge. -- LittleHamster 13:12, 30 March 2006 (BST)

I prefer to have it on one page. Mind to tell me how to create a new page in this wiki? Peskil 12:19, 31 March 2006 (BST)
Create a link to a non-existent page, then click on it. Darksatanic 12:29, 31 March 2006 (BST)
Thx :-) Added a Quick Reference Table, not sure, all of them really count as valid quests though.
Peskil 14:19, 31 March 2006 (BST)

Peskil, I agree with you that having everything on one page is good for a quick glance. I just thought what we had before was too long. I'm having second thoughts now whether this is better: A single page for each quest, with a main Quests page that links to each individual quest detail. Sort of like the Rough Guides page, we have categories and links. What do you think? -- LittleHamster 14:28, 31 March 2006 (BST)

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work, the old page was becoming chaotic. There needs to be a quick, clean and updated overview on one hand, on the other there needs to be place to share additional information. I added a page with all quests in form of a table, but did not take the time to link any of them. Having a separate page for each quest might make some sense. Other opinions? Peskil 14:40, 31 March 2006 (BST)
You didn't offend me at all. I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the best way to organise this information. I'm not so sure about the table format. I prefer lists. But I'm sure some people like tables more. By the way, one quest per page would make it less likely to break links when reorganising as well. -- LittleHamster 14:59, 31 March 2006 (BST)
I understand what you meant by it becoming a little cluuttered, little hamster, but that's why there was a table of contents. now for some quests i'm not sure where they go and i just need 1 little piece of info like coordinates i have to search for. also, you left out the haunted farm. maybe others, but that's the only one i saw because i was looking for it to find where the ghost hunters guild was. i didn't see the animal sanctuary either, but i don't know if it's there or not. frankly, i'd prefer it the way it was so we can just click the quest we need in the table of contents. Jatt 16:00, 31 March 2006 (BST)
Jatt, I'll give it a go with what I have in mind. I don't like this new split up format really either. -- LittleHamster
mmk, cool beans. :) i just found it easier the old way. and i sorta skimmed what you put earlier; i just read your sggestion. a page for each quest is pretty good, as long as they all link from the same page and you don't have to go searching for them. Jatt 17:38, 31 March 2006 (BST)
and i just looked at quests again, i like it. good work. :) Jatt 17:40, 31 March 2006 (BST)
The results are much better than what we had before. Thanks go to LittleHamster for the initiative and job good done. Peskil 17:42, 31 March 2006 (BST)

Categorising Quests

I suggest to list Animal Sanctuary as the first Underground Quest since it is a prerequisite to Smelly Pete which would be second. Third quest should be The Tunnels. When I got this right Catacomb Entrance would be the 4th quest, giving, well, entrance to the Catacombs, which would be the 5th quest. Since I have not done Tunnels and Catacombs I am not sure whether these count as quests (à la find the Ancient Altars and insert Talisman). I wait for your opinions... Peskil 13:06, 19 April 2006 (BST)

I'm in two minds about this. On one hand, the Animal Santuary quest doesn't happen underground and it has rewards other than letting you get to smelly pete (getting fleece and pints of cream is much easier in the farm). Also, there are other entrances to the tunnels. On the other hand, the smelly pete entrance is probably the easiest to get to (at least best documented). Therefore, you could see the Animal Santuary as a prerequsite to the the underground quests. If you ask me to vote which category it should be in, I think it should stay as an 'other quest'. -- LittleHamster 14:10, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I can follow your arguments :-) How about the Catacombs? Peskil 15:42, 19 April 2006 (BST)
I haven't done any of the underground quest yet. So I can't comment on that. -- LittleHamster 16:14, 19 April 2006 (BST)

In my understanding, the catacombs and the NW-Tunnels are different quests (though I have not started them myself). They require different jobs and give different awards (catacombs: make totem, access to NW-Tunnels; NW-Tunnels: put talisman into altar, ?). Therefor instead of exchanging them, LittleHamster, you might want to add the NW-Tunnels as a new quest. Peskil 10:41, 26 May 2006 (BST)

I can see what you are saying. What we have now is inconsistent. Smelly Pete is classed as a separate quest, but it's actually for gaining access to the SW tunnels. On the other hand, making the totem is lumped with the NW Tunnels, even though the totem is functionally the same as Smelly Pete. The word catacombs is un-necessarily confusing though. I checked with MikeJ, and they refered to all four tunnels/catacombs as the same. I guess we should either remove Smelly Pete, or add a new quest called 'Warrior Totem'. I'll go ahead and do it now. Feel free to change it. -- LittleHamster 11:32, 26 May 2006 (BST)
I've reverted the change, but you can see the Warrior Totem's quest here. There's nothing to it other than making the totem, which let you get through the 'Catacomb entrance'. The catacomb is the NW tunnels. It's a bit silly to make it a quest, like seperating making the spear of odin and hammer of thor into its own quests, or having a quest making jumpers (which is needed for the north). -- LittleHamster 12:39, 26 May 2006 (BST)
I am not happy with this. You are gaining the items needed for Asgard in separate quests (Thor, Magic Egg, North Pole), same with Smelly Pete and Warrior's Totem. A jumper can be knitted as often as you wish. Can you make several Warrior's Totems (real question)? Thus the following suggestion:
- Quest: Smelly Pete; task: find mum and dad; reward: access to SW-Tunnels
- Quest: SW-Altar; task: find altar in SW-Tunnels and insert talisman; reward: ?
- Quest: Warrior's Totem; task: make warrior's Totem; reward: access to catacombs
- Quest: NW-Altar; task: find altar in catacombs and insert talisman; reward: ?
For a more generic approach:
- A quest requires you to do something and gives you a reward (items, improvements, access).
- Once fulfilled a quest is done and cannot be repeated.
With this definition Jack and the Beanstalk would be no quest, the Giant is just like the Manic Minotaur. The School of Hard Knocks may be disputed, since some quests have several stages (Merchant, Dojo) and the final class of the school has still to be discovered ;-)
Peskil 13:31, 28 May 2006 (BST)

I guess whether the totem is a quest really depends on whether you can make two then? And I don't know the answer to this. -- LittleHamster 17:17, 28 May 2006 (BST)

I'd say that the Warrior's Totem shouldn't be a quest in itself. Somehow, just crafting an item doesn't seem like enough for a quest, even if that item has significant benefits--otherwise, why not have "Quest: Build a boat, Reward: access to the islands"? I think a good criterion for what constitutes a "quest" is whether there is any specific reward you are given for completing it, beyond what would you would normally expect for performing those actions. By this logic:

  • Smelly Pete is a quest; you get access to the SW Tunnels via Harvey's Farm.
  • The Warrior's Totem is not a quest, since you only get the Warrior's Totem itself. The Totem is needed to get into the NW Tunnels, so you should include some information on totem construction in that quest, but the Totem wouldn't be a quest in itself.
  • The three Asgard "subquests" are quests, since in each case you are rewarded with a specific item.
  • The Undead Dragon and Jack and the Beanstalk are a bit arguable since the rewards are monster drops. However, since they're set drops and unique monsters, I'd say these are quests. (Although admittedly by this logic, so is Sir Tim and his Hyper-Link.)
  • On Call is not a quest (but we knew this already).

I don't really see repeatability as a critical factor in what makes a quest. So what if you can do something more than once? We have people clamoring for the Ghost Hunter quest to be repeatable...and although you only sign up and get the innate tracking ability once, you can still kill the Undead Dragon as many times as you like (with the same reward). --Dragon 21:40, 28 May 2006 (BST)

You can initiate but one for the Undead Dragon hunt, once killed it is marked as a completed quest, therefor it is out of question. Regarding the Giant add the Manic Minotaur to the list - he also drops a specific item. My suggestion: A new categorie Unique Monsters. When repeatability is NOT an important factor then what IS a quest in your eyes? Once again, you are granted access to the catacombs only after finding the neccessary items to build yourself a warrior's totem. I will test out if it is possible to build several totems as soon as possible. Peskil 09:27, 30 May 2006 (BST)
As I stated, my idea for what makes a quest is if you get a specific reward beyond what you might normally expect for taking the actions. I will grant that this isn't a perfect definition either, but I am uncomfortable with having a "quest" be simply making an item. (Again, if the Warrior's Totem is a quest in itself, why isn't building a boat a quest? After all, that's also an item you build that lets you visit a previously inaccessible area. One thing that might differentiate the two is if the item is "sticky"--can you trade a Warrior's Totem, or buy/sell it at the markets? If so, it's not really that much of a quest.)
I'd be fine with separating out "Unique Monsters" as a separate category of (pseudo)quest. The Snark and Undead Dragon should be full quests since you sign up in Water City and they show up on your Me page. The other unique monsters include The Giant, the Gorgan, Sir Tim, the Fenris Wolf (probably fine to leave this as part of the Asgard quest). Is the Manic Minotaur unique, or are there multiple Manic Minotaurs? --Dragon 18:46, 30 May 2006 (BST)
All the northern quests are related, and you can think of them as one large quest, as 4 mini quests, or even as 7 mini quests. (Upgrading each weapon *is* a mini quest, involving killing treemen and mining). I believe whether each mini-quest should have its own quest page depends on how best the information can be presented. And IMHO, upgrading the weapons and making the Warrior Totem are best presented as a 'making stuff' page (ie like Warrior's Totem). Currently, the prerequisite for the NW Tunnels contains a link to the recipe for the Totem. Having a seperate quest page for simply making the Totem is unnecessarily complicating things. By the way, I don't think stickiness is a good indication for whether to make a quest page. The tomatoes from the Haunted Farm is sticky. I don't think anyone here whould suggest making 'Collect Tomatoes' a quest, even if some future quest make use of the tomatoes. -- LittleHamster 20:28, 30 May 2006 (BST)


I don't like the new split for the quests. Just voicing my opinion. -Markous 07:25, 11 February 2007 (GMT)

Musical Training

I felt that Open Mic Night deserved some sort of quest status. Since its a limited-time-offer, it should probably be classified as a "micro-quest." But since it makes a good segue for the Devil Went Down to Cities, so I gave it its own heading. I'm also assuming that the other rewards will become quest-able in the future. Gonzometro 05:17, 4 July 2007 (BST)

I guess Pop Idol could also fall under this new banner. Gonzometro 05:20, 4 July 2007 (BST)
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